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	<title>Comments on: Uncommon Descent Contest Question 13: The Large Hadron Collider is back up and running, but why? Winners announced.</title>
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	<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/</link>
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		<title>By: O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343320</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343320</guid>
		<description>Iryna at 7, go &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.euthanasia.com/holland99.html&quot; target=&quot;another&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for info about how such claims as &quot;gather your family and friends around to say goodbye&quot; ring hollow. 

Of course they do. At any given time, far more old people are wanted dead than want to die.  

In Canada, we have a different non-working system from the United States, so please don&#039;t confuse the two. 

I would certainly take my chances with a US insurance company rather than a Dutch euthanasia physician, the former just wanting money and the latter oozing compassion and lethal injections. 

And yes, we DO have more freedom here. That&#039;s precisely why we are here. If you don&#039;t like that, please live somewhere else and be happy. 

Anyway, I am out of here; I have other fish to fry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iryna at 7, go <a href="http://www.euthanasia.com/holland99.html" target="another" rel="nofollow">here</a> for info about how such claims as &#8220;gather your family and friends around to say goodbye&#8221; ring hollow. </p>
<p>Of course they do. At any given time, far more old people are wanted dead than want to die.  </p>
<p>In Canada, we have a different non-working system from the United States, so please don&#8217;t confuse the two. </p>
<p>I would certainly take my chances with a US insurance company rather than a Dutch euthanasia physician, the former just wanting money and the latter oozing compassion and lethal injections. </p>
<p>And yes, we DO have more freedom here. That&#8217;s precisely why we are here. If you don&#8217;t like that, please live somewhere else and be happy. </p>
<p>Anyway, I am out of here; I have other fish to fry.</p>
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		<title>By: IrynaB</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343316</link>
		<dc:creator>IrynaB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343316</guid>
		<description>Denyse:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Euthanasia programs are well under way in The Netherlands, for example, with many non-consenting victims&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s not what I heard. I heard that in the Netherlands you have the &lt;i&gt;freedom&lt;/i&gt; of choosing your own time of death when you are a terminally ill patient. So you can gather your family and friends around to say goodbye while you&#039;re still capable, and have a painless death. That&#039;s freedom. I am not aware of anybody being killed against their wishes. Are you?

[rant]

If there is so much freedom in North America, how come the USA has the largest per capita prison population in the world? If you are a black man in the USA, chances are very good you will spend a significant amount of time in prison. 

In Europe we are free from the terror of health insurance companies. I heard those companies kill tens of thousands of people per year in the USA.

So, I am not so sure that you enjoy more freedom on your side of the pond. Your social Darwinism seems to curtail the freedom of lots of folks. But if that&#039;s you want, feel free do so.

[/rant]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denyse:</p>
<blockquote><p>Euthanasia programs are well under way in The Netherlands, for example, with many non-consenting victims</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s not what I heard. I heard that in the Netherlands you have the <i>freedom</i> of choosing your own time of death when you are a terminally ill patient. So you can gather your family and friends around to say goodbye while you&#8217;re still capable, and have a painless death. That&#8217;s freedom. I am not aware of anybody being killed against their wishes. Are you?</p>
<p>[rant]</p>
<p>If there is so much freedom in North America, how come the USA has the largest per capita prison population in the world? If you are a black man in the USA, chances are very good you will spend a significant amount of time in prison. </p>
<p>In Europe we are free from the terror of health insurance companies. I heard those companies kill tens of thousands of people per year in the USA.</p>
<p>So, I am not so sure that you enjoy more freedom on your side of the pond. Your social Darwinism seems to curtail the freedom of lots of folks. But if that&#8217;s you want, feel free do so.</p>
<p>[/rant]</p>
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		<title>By: O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343308</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343308</guid>
		<description>Hey, guys, all I know is this: 

Euthanasia programs are well under way in The Netherlands, for example, with many non-consenting victims - and now that Europe has decided it is all one big happy family, you either shut that down or you adopt it yourselves. 

You can&#039;t have a right to live in Germany but not in Holland - and pretend you are the same basic entity.

Do you think I have a right to live in Ontario but not in Saskatchewan? (provinces of Canada)

Recently, Canada has thrown off its traditional sense of shame. (a few thousand acres of snow ... as a French king put it, when he signed Canada away in the mid-18th century). 

A worse bargain was there never in the history of the world ...

We used to look up to Europe - no more. 

And we did not ask to be handed the torch:

&quot;... to you from failing hands we throw the torch, 

be yours to hold it high ... &quot;

(- from our national Remembrance Day poem, &quot;In Flanders&#039; Fields&quot;, written by a Canadian paramedic in the back of an ambulance in WWI.) 

But we never thought it would really happen. Still, what happens, happens.

We have come to realize that it is okay to say that we are the True North Strong and Free, and to act like it, and not care what bloviating Europundits or Yankeepundits say about us. 

cf www.canada.ca

Our Citizenship and Immigration Minister has in fact said, in a recent speech, about Islamist attacks on Jews:

- 0 –

We have articulated and implemented a zero tolerance approach to anti-Semitism. What does this mean?  It means that we eliminated the government funding relationship with organizations like for example, the Canadian Arab Federation, whose leadership apologized for terrorism or extremism, or who promote hatred, in particular anti-Semitism.  
  
We have ended government contact with like-minded organizations like the Canadian Islamic Congress, whose President notoriously said that all Israelis over the age of 18 are legitimate targets for assassination.  We have defunded organizations, most recently like KAIROS, who are taking a leadership role in the boycott. And we’re receiving a lot of criticism for these decisions. I can’t recall how many times I’ve been sued for some of the decisions that we have taken, but we believe that we’ve done these things for the right reasons and we stand by these decisions.  
  
We have shifted our program of multiculturalism, which is our programmatic approach to integration and to pluralism, to focus precisely on integration towards liberal democratic values to remove any confusion that may have existed that our approach to multiculturalism justifies abhorrent cultural practices and the expression of hatred.  
  
And I need to commend our parliamentary colleagues for their tremendous work in forming the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition Against Anti-Semitism, and for launching an inquiry which is undergoing its hearings in Parliament through this month and next.  A tremendous opportunity for us to bring to light the threat of the new anti-Semitism across Canada.  
  
At the international level, we have tried to give practical expression to our profound concern about the new anti-Semitism in many ways.  We did so by being the first government in the world to announce that we were removing funding for the Palestinian authority following the election of Hamas because of the essentially anti-Semitic nature of that organization. We have robustly stood by the right of the state of Israel to use the means necessary to protect its innocent civilians from attacks, terrorist attacks motivated by hatred, committed by organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas.  
  
- 0 -

Right on. Now, if you want to impress me, show me that Europe has a spine like ours, and I will believe you. We have hundreds of thousands of Jewish Canadian citizens [with a variety of views about Israel] at risk from backward anti-Semitism, wished on us from abroad. But we are moving quickly to power down that risk.  

Also, here is an example of what concerns many of us: 

Apparently, a Brit police force was recently forced to apologize for and stop using a German Shepherd pup as a character, to enforce various safety messages for children. 

Some citizens think dogs are &quot;unclean,&quot; so of course the Brit administration immediately caved.

And remember, you are all one big family now, so ... if you care, you must fight the rot, not make excuses for it.

Why I care: I spent part of my childhood in the Yukon, atop whose coat of arms proudly sits - a dog (a Husky, Malamute, or Canadian Eskimo dog, I gather). The dog was the principal animal that enabled the survival of humans in the near and far north for thousands of years. 

And as long as I have breath, that dog will stay there on the top of the Yukon&#039;s Coat of Arms, as he deserves. 

Look, Heinrich, hands across the Pond in friendship. We WANT you to be free. But you must want it for yourself.

Don&#039;t talk to me about &quot;support&quot; for citizens, when it looks from here like the very same soft totalitarianism we are throwing off. 

Bureaucrats are not smart enough to tell you how to live.

A glorious thought, surely?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, guys, all I know is this: </p>
<p>Euthanasia programs are well under way in The Netherlands, for example, with many non-consenting victims &#8211; and now that Europe has decided it is all one big happy family, you either shut that down or you adopt it yourselves. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t have a right to live in Germany but not in Holland &#8211; and pretend you are the same basic entity.</p>
<p>Do you think I have a right to live in Ontario but not in Saskatchewan? (provinces of Canada)</p>
<p>Recently, Canada has thrown off its traditional sense of shame. (a few thousand acres of snow &#8230; as a French king put it, when he signed Canada away in the mid-18th century). </p>
<p>A worse bargain was there never in the history of the world &#8230;</p>
<p>We used to look up to Europe &#8211; no more. </p>
<p>And we did not ask to be handed the torch:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; to you from failing hands we throw the torch, </p>
<p>be yours to hold it high &#8230; &#8221;</p>
<p>(- from our national Remembrance Day poem, &#8220;In Flanders&#8217; Fields&#8221;, written by a Canadian paramedic in the back of an ambulance in WWI.) </p>
<p>But we never thought it would really happen. Still, what happens, happens.</p>
<p>We have come to realize that it is okay to say that we are the True North Strong and Free, and to act like it, and not care what bloviating Europundits or Yankeepundits say about us. </p>
<p>cf <a href="http://www.canada.ca" rel="nofollow">http://www.canada.ca</a></p>
<p>Our Citizenship and Immigration Minister has in fact said, in a recent speech, about Islamist attacks on Jews:</p>
<p>- 0 –</p>
<p>We have articulated and implemented a zero tolerance approach to anti-Semitism. What does this mean?  It means that we eliminated the government funding relationship with organizations like for example, the Canadian Arab Federation, whose leadership apologized for terrorism or extremism, or who promote hatred, in particular anti-Semitism. <br />
 <br />
We have ended government contact with like-minded organizations like the Canadian Islamic Congress, whose President notoriously said that all Israelis over the age of 18 are legitimate targets for assassination.  We have defunded organizations, most recently like KAIROS, who are taking a leadership role in the boycott. And we’re receiving a lot of criticism for these decisions. I can’t recall how many times I’ve been sued for some of the decisions that we have taken, but we believe that we’ve done these things for the right reasons and we stand by these decisions. <br />
 <br />
We have shifted our program of multiculturalism, which is our programmatic approach to integration and to pluralism, to focus precisely on integration towards liberal democratic values to remove any confusion that may have existed that our approach to multiculturalism justifies abhorrent cultural practices and the expression of hatred. <br />
 <br />
And I need to commend our parliamentary colleagues for their tremendous work in forming the Canadian Parliamentary Coalition Against Anti-Semitism, and for launching an inquiry which is undergoing its hearings in Parliament through this month and next.  A tremendous opportunity for us to bring to light the threat of the new anti-Semitism across Canada. <br />
 <br />
At the international level, we have tried to give practical expression to our profound concern about the new anti-Semitism in many ways.  We did so by being the first government in the world to announce that we were removing funding for the Palestinian authority following the election of Hamas because of the essentially anti-Semitic nature of that organization. We have robustly stood by the right of the state of Israel to use the means necessary to protect its innocent civilians from attacks, terrorist attacks motivated by hatred, committed by organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas. <br />
 <br />
- 0 -</p>
<p>Right on. Now, if you want to impress me, show me that Europe has a spine like ours, and I will believe you. We have hundreds of thousands of Jewish Canadian citizens [with a variety of views about Israel] at risk from backward anti-Semitism, wished on us from abroad. But we are moving quickly to power down that risk.  </p>
<p>Also, here is an example of what concerns many of us: </p>
<p>Apparently, a Brit police force was recently forced to apologize for and stop using a German Shepherd pup as a character, to enforce various safety messages for children. </p>
<p>Some citizens think dogs are &#8220;unclean,&#8221; so of course the Brit administration immediately caved.</p>
<p>And remember, you are all one big family now, so &#8230; if you care, you must fight the rot, not make excuses for it.</p>
<p>Why I care: I spent part of my childhood in the Yukon, atop whose coat of arms proudly sits &#8211; a dog (a Husky, Malamute, or Canadian Eskimo dog, I gather). The dog was the principal animal that enabled the survival of humans in the near and far north for thousands of years. </p>
<p>And as long as I have breath, that dog will stay there on the top of the Yukon&#8217;s Coat of Arms, as he deserves. </p>
<p>Look, Heinrich, hands across the Pond in friendship. We WANT you to be free. But you must want it for yourself.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t talk to me about &#8220;support&#8221; for citizens, when it looks from here like the very same soft totalitarianism we are throwing off. </p>
<p>Bureaucrats are not smart enough to tell you how to live.</p>
<p>A glorious thought, surely?</p>
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		<title>By: Zachriel</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343290</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343290</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;Rude&lt;/b&gt;: In much of &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2687403.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Old Europe&lt;/a&gt; there is scant memory of who it was that liberated her from the scourge of wars of her own making, of the hundreds of thousands of North Americans who gave their lives so that others could breathe free.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Really, Rude. When was the last time the French have fought and died alongside Americans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><b>Rude</b>: In much of <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2687403.stm" rel="nofollow">Old Europe</a> there is scant memory of who it was that liberated her from the scourge of wars of her own making, of the hundreds of thousands of North Americans who gave their lives so that others could breathe free.</p></blockquote>
<p>Really, Rude. When was the last time the French have fought and died alongside Americans?</p>
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		<title>By: Rude</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343286</link>
		<dc:creator>Rude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343286</guid>
		<description>I’m reminded of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hep.net/ssc/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ronald Reagan Super Collider&lt;/a&gt; cancelled in &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1993&lt;/a&gt; by politicians eager for the pork of a “peace dividend”.  At the time I rued it what with the billions already spent and the then elitist mania to expand the bureaucracy with &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Care&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;undemocratic abandon&lt;/a&gt;.

In much of &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2687403.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Old Europe&lt;/a&gt; there is scant memory of who it was that liberated her from the scourge of wars of her own making, of the hundreds of thousands of North Americans who gave their lives so that others could breathe free.  No, there is mostly envy and a crass projection of blame on two freedom loving nations that actually believe in defending their liberty and their lives.

Today one “hyperpower” polices the world—it remains to be seen whether peace prevails should that power leave the scene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m reminded of the <a href="http://www.hep.net/ssc/" rel="nofollow">Ronald Reagan Super Collider</a> cancelled in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider" rel="nofollow">1993</a> by politicians eager for the pork of a “peace dividend”.  At the time I rued it what with the billions already spent and the then elitist mania to expand the bureaucracy with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Care" rel="nofollow">undemocratic abandon</a>.</p>
<p>In much of <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2687403.stm" rel="nofollow">Old Europe</a> there is scant memory of who it was that liberated her from the scourge of wars of her own making, of the hundreds of thousands of North Americans who gave their lives so that others could breathe free.  No, there is mostly envy and a crass projection of blame on two freedom loving nations that actually believe in defending their liberty and their lives.</p>
<p>Today one “hyperpower” polices the world—it remains to be seen whether peace prevails should that power leave the scene.</p>
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		<title>By: Heinrich</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343285</link>
		<dc:creator>Heinrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343285</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“More support” translates into stuff most Canadians find oppressive. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ah, you mean like universal healthcare, and support for the unemployed and elderly?

Of course we&#039;re not perfect, so pointing to a few cases where governments have done something bad isn&#039;t terribly impressive.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The reason we need more hospital beds here is that we don’t have a big euthanasia lobby. What about where you are?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Nope, not here as far as I&#039;m aware.  Although I think it&#039;s a shame that the terminally ill are taking up hospital beds, rather than hospices, which are better geared towards looking after such patients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“More support” translates into stuff most Canadians find oppressive. </p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, you mean like universal healthcare, and support for the unemployed and elderly?</p>
<p>Of course we&#8217;re not perfect, so pointing to a few cases where governments have done something bad isn&#8217;t terribly impressive.</p>
<blockquote><p>The reason we need more hospital beds here is that we don’t have a big euthanasia lobby. What about where you are?</p></blockquote>
<p>Nope, not here as far as I&#8217;m aware.  Although I think it&#8217;s a shame that the terminally ill are taking up hospital beds, rather than hospices, which are better geared towards looking after such patients.</p>
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		<title>By: O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343270</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343270</guid>
		<description>Aw come on, Heinrich! We read the papers here. &quot;More support&quot; translates into stuff most Canadians find oppressive. 

I - and many others - remember journalist Oriana Fallaci standing up to defend herself from the Italian bureaucracy on &quot;hate speech&quot; charges when she was dying of ovarian cancer. 

I read her book. She said some rude things, but it was not remotely &quot;hate speech.&quot;

I remember commentator Ayaan Hirsi Ali, having fled Somalia, later fleeing The Netherlands for the United States due to trumped up charges.

So that&#039;s Eurocratic &quot;support&quot;?

I&#039;m not saying you can&#039;t have it if you want. Of course you can. 

I am merely pointing out that in Canada we are kicking the butts of the kind of people who provide that kind of &quot;support&quot; and plan to do much more of the same. 

Check out &quot;My name is Ezra Levant&quot; at YouTube to see what I mean.

The reason we need more hospital beds here is that we don&#039;t have a big euthanasia lobby. What about where you are?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw come on, Heinrich! We read the papers here. &#8220;More support&#8221; translates into stuff most Canadians find oppressive. </p>
<p>I &#8211; and many others &#8211; remember journalist Oriana Fallaci standing up to defend herself from the Italian bureaucracy on &#8220;hate speech&#8221; charges when she was dying of ovarian cancer. </p>
<p>I read her book. She said some rude things, but it was not remotely &#8220;hate speech.&#8221;</p>
<p>I remember commentator Ayaan Hirsi Ali, having fled Somalia, later fleeing The Netherlands for the United States due to trumped up charges.</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s Eurocratic &#8220;support&#8221;?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying you can&#8217;t have it if you want. Of course you can. </p>
<p>I am merely pointing out that in Canada we are kicking the butts of the kind of people who provide that kind of &#8220;support&#8221; and plan to do much more of the same. </p>
<p>Check out &#8220;My name is Ezra Levant&#8221; at YouTube to see what I mean.</p>
<p>The reason we need more hospital beds here is that we don&#8217;t have a big euthanasia lobby. What about where you are?</p>
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		<title>By: Heinrich</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/uncommon-descent-contest/uncommon-descent-contest-question-13-the-large-hadron-collider-is-back-up-and-running-but-why-winners-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-343260</link>
		<dc:creator>Heinrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10792#comment-343260</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My local public hospital could add 100 beds and fill them immediately, but the problem is that 1800 less critical dollar-a-year projects leach away the needed money.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Perhaps you should consider living in a Eurocracy.  Not only do we have absence of war, we also have more support for each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My local public hospital could add 100 beds and fill them immediately, but the problem is that 1800 less critical dollar-a-year projects leach away the needed money.</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps you should consider living in a Eurocracy.  Not only do we have absence of war, we also have more support for each other.</p>
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