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	<title>Comments on: Interesting Graphs of US Temp &amp; Precip History</title>
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	<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/</link>
	<description>Serving The Intelligent Design Community</description>
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		<title>By: tribune7</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288709</link>
		<dc:creator>tribune7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 22:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288709</guid>
		<description>DLH,

I respect your opinion and will try to refrain from using that word but please don&#039;t discount the possibility it may be happening.

When someone uses Hollywood disaster footage without comment in a documentary to illustrate a crisis one is obliged to go hmmmmm.

And when the same political alliance describes a crisis then advocates actions that would actually worsen it as per their claimed cause of it (new turnpike tollbooths, removing hydro-electric dams), I can&#039;t help but go mega-hmmmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DLH,</p>
<p>I respect your opinion and will try to refrain from using that word but please don&#8217;t discount the possibility it may be happening.</p>
<p>When someone uses Hollywood disaster footage without comment in a documentary to illustrate a crisis one is obliged to go hmmmmm.</p>
<p>And when the same political alliance describes a crisis then advocates actions that would actually worsen it as per their claimed cause of it (new turnpike tollbooths, removing hydro-electric dams), I can&#8217;t help but go mega-hmmmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: William Wallace</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288548</link>
		<dc:creator>William Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 02:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288548</guid>
		<description>I find &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJUFTm6cJXM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this video&lt;/a&gt; brings a smile to my face.  (Thanks to Minnesotans for global warming.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJUFTm6cJXM" rel="nofollow">this video</a> brings a smile to my face.  (Thanks to Minnesotans for global warming.)</p>
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		<title>By: DLH</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288521</link>
		<dc:creator>DLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288521</guid>
		<description>tribune7
I would rather not use &quot;lying&quot; unless there is clear evidence to support it.

See the numerous accusations as in the following Google search:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/search?q=panda%27s+thumb+lying&amp;rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;sourceid=ie7&amp;rlz=1I7GGLJ&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Panda&#039;s thumb lying&lt;/a&gt;  
Lets set the example in origin&#039;s discourse and oppose such frivilous rhetorical use of &quot;lying&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tribune7<br />
I would rather not use &#8220;lying&#8221; unless there is clear evidence to support it.</p>
<p>See the numerous accusations as in the following Google search:<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=panda%27s+thumb+lying&#038;rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;oe=UTF-8&#038;sourceid=ie7&#038;rlz=1I7GGLJ" rel="nofollow"> Panda&#8217;s thumb lying</a><br />
Lets set the example in origin&#8217;s discourse and oppose such frivilous rhetorical use of &#8220;lying&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: tragicmishap</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288484</link>
		<dc:creator>tragicmishap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 01:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288484</guid>
		<description>lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol</p>
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		<title>By: tribune7</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288457</link>
		<dc:creator>tribune7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 17:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288457</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;They may be deluded and morally unaware of what they are doing.&lt;/i&gt;

DLH,

What evidence would you accept that they (OK, some) are lying through their teeth-- i.e. knowingly and with premeditation disseminating information that they know to be false, and --and to add to my cynicism-- for the pursuit of personal money and power?

Frankly, I can&#039;t see any other word for it.

Now, I grant that &quot;they&quot; is a rather broad term, and certainly there are those who are sincerely and passionately concerned about global warming. You can usually tell who they are because they are outspoken advocates of nuclear power.

And of course there are others who are not lying but merely stupid and followers of fashion.

But follow the money. To ignore that lying -- in the ugliest definition of the word-- is not being used by some in the pursuit of power and money, is naive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>They may be deluded and morally unaware of what they are doing.</i></p>
<p>DLH,</p>
<p>What evidence would you accept that they (OK, some) are lying through their teeth&#8211; i.e. knowingly and with premeditation disseminating information that they know to be false, and &#8211;and to add to my cynicism&#8211; for the pursuit of personal money and power?</p>
<p>Frankly, I can&#8217;t see any other word for it.</p>
<p>Now, I grant that &#8220;they&#8221; is a rather broad term, and certainly there are those who are sincerely and passionately concerned about global warming. You can usually tell who they are because they are outspoken advocates of nuclear power.</p>
<p>And of course there are others who are not lying but merely stupid and followers of fashion.</p>
<p>But follow the money. To ignore that lying &#8212; in the ugliest definition of the word&#8211; is not being used by some in the pursuit of power and money, is naive.</p>
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		<title>By: DLH</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288454</link>
		<dc:creator>DLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 17:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288454</guid>
		<description>An interesting article addressing the issue is: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/02/a_tale_of_two_thermometers/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
Is the earth getting warmer, or cooler? A tale of two thermometers&lt;/a&gt;

Are the &quot;adjustments&quot; by NASA&#039;s Hansen  to &quot;correct&quot; for errors, or are they the bias that is creating &quot;global warming&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting article addressing the issue is: <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/02/a_tale_of_two_thermometers/" rel="nofollow"><br />
Is the earth getting warmer, or cooler? A tale of two thermometers</a></p>
<p>Are the &#8220;adjustments&#8221; by NASA&#8217;s Hansen  to &#8220;correct&#8221; for errors, or are they the bias that is creating &#8220;global warming&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob O'H</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288447</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob O'H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 15:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288447</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Next would be to show a plot of temperature vs precipitation&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I did.  There&#039;s no pattern, as I pointed out above, the correlation is effectively zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Next would be to show a plot of temperature vs precipitation</p></blockquote>
<p>I did.  There&#8217;s no pattern, as I pointed out above, the correlation is effectively zero.</p>
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		<title>By: DLH</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288444</link>
		<dc:creator>DLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 14:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288444</guid>
		<description>Interesting trends.

Next would be to show a plot of temperature vs precipitation and to do an autocorrelation to check the correlation.

Major issues:
Is the temperature trend biased by 
1) the &quot;heat island effect&quot;?
e.g., &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1742 &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Parker and Fresno Airport&lt;/a&gt;
and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/2007/06/how_not_to_measure_temperature_8.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How not to measure temperature, part 10&lt;/a&gt;
Note particularly the &quot;careful&quot; location of the temperature sensor near concrete and an air conditioner exhaust!

2) systematic bias in temperature adjustment.
e.g. see:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1755&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;  Petaluma CA&lt;/a&gt;

There are better analyses around, but these are a flavor to exemplify the issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting trends.</p>
<p>Next would be to show a plot of temperature vs precipitation and to do an autocorrelation to check the correlation.</p>
<p>Major issues:<br />
Is the temperature trend biased by<br />
1) the &#8220;heat island effect&#8221;?<br />
e.g., <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1742 " rel="nofollow"> Parker and Fresno Airport</a><br />
and <a href="http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/2007/06/how_not_to_measure_temperature_8.html" rel="nofollow">How not to measure temperature, part 10</a><br />
Note particularly the &#8220;careful&#8221; location of the temperature sensor near concrete and an air conditioner exhaust!</p>
<p>2) systematic bias in temperature adjustment.<br />
e.g. see:<br />
<a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1755" rel="nofollow">  Petaluma CA</a></p>
<p>There are better analyses around, but these are a flavor to exemplify the issues.</p>
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		<title>By: DLH</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288443</link>
		<dc:creator>DLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 14:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288443</guid>
		<description>tribune7
It is worth raising scientific criticism.

However lay off the &lt;i&gt;ad hominem&lt;/i&gt; accusation of moral perversity unless you have clear evidence to the contrary. cf your statement &quot;To me, that is slam-dunk evidence that they are lying through their teeth about there being a crisis.&quot;

They may be deluded and morally unaware of what they are doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tribune7<br />
It is worth raising scientific criticism.</p>
<p>However lay off the <i>ad hominem</i> accusation of moral perversity unless you have clear evidence to the contrary. cf your statement &#8220;To me, that is slam-dunk evidence that they are lying through their teeth about there being a crisis.&#8221;</p>
<p>They may be deluded and morally unaware of what they are doing.</p>
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		<title>By: tribune7</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/comment-page-1/#comment-288439</link>
		<dc:creator>tribune7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 12:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/interesting-graphs-of-us-temp-precip-history/#comment-288439</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to take this time to again point out that the same crowd that insist &quot;the world is burning to the ground&quot; wants to rip down hydro-electric dams and prohibit nuclear energy all the while having personal carbon footprints much bigger than average.

To me, that is slam-dunk evidence that they are lying through their teeth about there being a crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to take this time to again point out that the same crowd that insist &#8220;the world is burning to the ground&#8221; wants to rip down hydro-electric dams and prohibit nuclear energy all the while having personal carbon footprints much bigger than average.</p>
<p>To me, that is slam-dunk evidence that they are lying through their teeth about there being a crisis.</p>
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