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Will Texas Face Court Challenges to the New Science Standards?

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Now that the moaning and hand-wringing are over, there’s talk of mounting some legal challenges to the new science standards in Texas. At issue aren’t the standards themselves, but the personal motivations of some of the Board members who advocated for these standards.

Now the issue is whether there is enough prima facie evidence to challenge the Constitutionality of the wording now, or wait for the textbook review process in two years.

“They have shown clear religious motivations that certainly raise some questions,” Quinn said. “But if the board requires phony religious arguments in the science textbooks, I can’t imagine somebody won’t challenge it.” Publishers may end up producing a textbook for Texas and other conservative states and a separate version for other states—because under the new guidelines, a Texas textbook “will be poison in states that value education,” [Dan Quinn, a spokesman for the Texas Freedom Network].


I guess Quinn isn’t bothered at all by the motivations of atheists or philosophical naturalists who want to teach students that no matter how complex and specified biological systems might appear, the design is only apparent and not actual because nature posses all the creative power to produce it through chance and/or necessity. If Quinn is really concerned about motivations, he ought to check the philosophical and worldview motivations of those who want to promote naturalism as science in science classrooms. He has nary a peep about any of that.

So here’s a few questions for Mr. Quinn and anyone else sweating bullets over the “religious” motivations of those who question the way science is taught in public school classrooms: What does a worldview free science classroom look like? How do you sucessfully divorce science from any and all philosophical underpinnings? And if you can’t do that, how do you decide which philosophical considerations are necessary for science and which aren’t?

While we’re on the subject of motivations, perhaps Mr. Quinn might take note that William Wilberforce fought for over 20 years in the early 1800’s to end the slave trade in England motivated almost entirely by his “religion” (Christianity). Should England have repealed the anti-slave trade act because of those “religious” motivations? Or can we only call motivations into question when it involves how we teach science? If so, Mr. Quinn, what’s your specific criteria for determining those motivations and deciding that no matter how good the standards might be, if they were inspired by the “wrong” motivations, we just can’t let them stand.

Comments
I find it curious that Joseph declined to ever answer Alan's questions regarding Joseph's claim to have been a research scientist and to have studied marine biology. One has to wonder why that is. As for Spetner's book, I read it some time ago and was not impressed in the least. He dealt only with enzymes and enzyme specificity, as if all proteins are enzymes. Beyond that, it was the usual IDcreationist boilerplate. His discussion with Gert Khortof was very enlightening - for one thing, Spetner was forced to admit that information-increasing mutations do in fact occur.
As studies have shown just to get two specified mutations would take more time than evolution has.
Well, that is not exactly what 'studies' have shown. Seelke - a YEC, not an ID advocate - in his high school-level 'experiments' found that you it takes an inordinate amount of time to get two specific sequential mutations. Claiming that this is relevant to evolution is to set up a rather unsophisticated strawman. Sorry.derwood
April 26, 2009
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Dave Wisker:
Gene duplication is the result of unequal crossing over. There is no evidence suggesting unequal crossing over is anything other than random with regard to fitness.
IOW our ignorance sez it is random. And seeing that variation provides fitness- see the plight of bananas because tey lack variiation- what does one mean by "random with regards to fitness"? IDist understand that with a duplicated gene that new gene also requires a binding site.
This is trivially true.
Without said binding site the new gene is useless- so it is hardly trivial. Perhaps you guys should read "Not By Chance" by Dr Leee Spetner. That would help you understand the telic position. As studies have shown just to get two specified mutations would take more time than evolution has. And even then the change is so subtle that it doesn't help you. But I do understand that all your hopes rest with evo-devo and more magical mystery mutations.Joseph
April 25, 2009
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Joseph writes :
It is the position of ID that not all mutations are random. And perhaps the ONLY mutations that are random are point mutations that occur as copying errors.
Gene duplication is the result of unequal crossing over. There is no evidence suggesting unequal crossing over is anything other than random with regard to fitness.
IDist understand that with a duplicated gene that new gene also requires a binding site.
This is trivially true. Not all unequal crossing over events result in gene duplications—only those that involve the promoters will result in genes that can be immediately transcribed.. Further recombination, however, can result in the cobbling together of new genes from non-transcribable fragments produced by unequal crossing over and promoter sequence fragments.
And even then all that could be hoped for is another transcription of an already existing component. So you would have this extra protein floating around ready to get in the way of the existing system.
It’s not the duplication itself that leads to novelty, but subsequent mutation to the copy resulting in neofunctionalization or escape from adaptive conflict. Neofunctionalization is discussed in this paper: Lynch M, M O’Hely, B Walsh & A Force (2001). The probability of preservation of a newly arisen gene duplicate. Genetics 159(4): 1789- 1804 Escape from adaptive conflict is discussed here: Des Marais DL & MD Rausher (2008). Escape from adaptive conflict after duplication in an anthocyanin pathway gene. Nature 454: 762-765 From the abstract:
Gene duplications have been recognized as an important source of evolutionary innovation and adaptation since at least Haldane1, and their varying fates may partly explain the vast disparity in observed genome sizes2. The expected fates of most gene duplications involve primarily non-adaptive substitutions leading to either non-functionalization of one duplicate copy or subfunctionalization3, neither of which yields novel function. A significant evolutionary problem is thus elucidating the mechanisms of adaptive evolutionary change leading to evolutionary novelty. Currently, the most widely recognized adaptive process involving gene duplication is neo-functionalization (NEO-F), in which one copy undergoes directional selection to perform a novel function after duplication4. An alternative, but understudied, adaptive fate that has been proposed is escape from adaptive conflict (EAC), in which a single-copy gene is selected to perform a novel function while maintaining its ancestral function5, 6. This gene is constrained from improving either novel or ancestral function because of detrimental pleiotropic effects on the other function. After duplication, one copy is free to improve novel function, whereas the other is selected to improve ancestral function. Here we first present two criteria that can be used to distinguish NEO-F from EAC. Using both tests for positive selection and assays of enzyme function, we then demonstrate that adaptive evolutionary change in a duplicated gene of the anthocyanin biosynthetic pathway in morning glories (Ipomoea) is best interpreted as EAC. Finally, we argue that this phenomenon likely occurs more often than has been previously believed and may thus represent an important mechanism in generating evolutionary novelty.
Joseph concludes:
So if a gene duplication leads to novelty I would say we should take a closer look because it may be directed by some underlying program.
Or may just be due to RM& NS.Dave Wisker
April 25, 2009
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iconofid:
Is it the I.D. position that there’s no evidence that gene duplication can produce novelty?
It is not. It is the position of ID that not all mutations are random. And perhaps the ONLY mutations that are random are point mutations that occur as copying errors. IDist understand that with a duplicated gene that new gene also requires a binding site. And even then all that could be hoped for is another transcription of an already existing component. So you would have this extra protein floating around ready to get in the way of the existing system. So if a gene duplication leads to novelty I would say we should take a closer look because it may be directed by some underlying program.Joseph
April 25, 2009
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iconofid, What part of transcription and translation- complete with proof-reading, error-correction and editing, strikes you as being cobbled together via an acumulation of genetic accidents? And How can we test the premise that a bacterial flagellum, for example, arose from a population that never had one via an acumulation of genetic accidents? I need a strong commitment before I discuss anything else with you.Joseph
April 25, 2009
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iconofid, What literature demonstrates that gene duplication can produce new body plans complete with new body parts and protein machinery? What litertaure demonstrates that mutation and selection can produce something more than slight oscillating variations?Joseph
April 25, 2009
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Oops! Messed up tags.Alan Fox
April 25, 2009
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Alan I have been all over the world- France included. I have spent quite a bit of time in Central and South America. IOW I would bet I have been exposed to more cultures and values (as if you have any) than you have.>/blockquote> That's nice. BTW, you overlooked to mention where you studied marine biology.
Alan Fox
April 25, 2009
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Joseph says: "In your dreams." You don't agree that you have a unique genome? Then I repeat, which of your ancestors have you oscillated into? "Been there done that and found nothing tat would indicate that A) gene duplications are random events and B) that they do what you think they do." Really? In reference to A, what did you find out about how gene duplications happen? And which of these processes would you perceive as being non-random? And it is very telling that YOU cannot produce ANY evidence to support your position. My position that gene duplications can produce novelty? You asserted that "There isn’t any evidence that naturalistic evolution can do anything other than slight, oscillating variations." I pointed you to the literature, and you assert that there's no evidence that gene duplications can do "what I think they can do". Is this position (that there's no evidence that gene duplications can produce novelty) one that all I.D. supporters hold? In the post after the one I'm replying to, you seem to want to change the subject. I'd be happy to address the points you're raising there, but after we've finished with this subject. So, I want a strong commitment before I discuss specific research. Is it the I.D. position that there's no evidence that gene duplication can produce novelty?iconofid
April 24, 2009
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iconofid, What part of transcription and translation- complete with proof-reading, error-correction and editing, strikes you as being cobbled together via an acumulation of genetic accidents? And How can we test the premise that a bacterial flagellum, for example, arose from a population that never had one via an acumulation of genetic accidents? The point is that YOUR position doesn’t have anything to offer besides “it evolved”.Joseph
April 24, 2009
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iconofid:
Actually, nature produces constant novelty, unique creatures with unique genomes.
In your dreams.
As for evidence of definitely non-oscillating change, why don’t you try “gene duplication novelty” on google scholar, and have a look around?
Been there done that and found nothing tat would indicate that A) gene duplications are random events and B) that they do what you think they do. And it is very telling that YOU cannot produce ANY evidence to support your position. None, nada, zip, zilch, zero. All you have is minor oscillating variations as seen in the beak of the finch, the peppered moth, anti-biotic resistance and every other example of "evolution". As for science I doubt you even know what tat is...Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Alan I have been all over the world- France included. I have spent quite a bit of time in Central and South America. IOW I would bet I have been exposed to more cultures and values (as if you have any) than you have.Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Sorry, italicised quotes above from "Joseph".iconofid
April 24, 2009
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There isn’t any evidence that naturalistic evolution can do anything other than slight, oscillating variations. Really? Which of your ancestors have you "oscillated" back into? Actually, nature produces constant novelty, unique creatures with unique genomes. As for evidence of definitely non-oscillating change, why don't you try "gene duplication novelty" on google scholar, and have a look around? Only to people like you who don’t have a clue. Ya see IF you could support your position ID would go away. I.D. doesn't go away for the same reason that young earth creationism doesn't go away. Desire does not recognise evidence. "But you cannot and that is why ID is here to stay." But where is I.D.? Sweeping the scientific world and replacing methodological naturalism? Or just attacking education systems, mainly in the U.S.? Aren't you aware that people criticise I.D. in relation to its possible effects on public understanding of science, not because of any effects on science itself?iconofid
April 24, 2009
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In the meantime, Where did you study marine biology?Alan Fox
April 24, 2009
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Actually a trip to the South of france might give you a little insight into other cultures and values. You would be very welcome. Email me alanfox@free.frAlan Fox
April 24, 2009
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Alan, YOU cannot tell anyone anything about nested hierarchies because you don't know anything about them. And if you want to know about me then meet me and I will tell all.Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Ah c'mon Joe, tell me where you studied marine biology and I'll tell you about nested hierarchies.Alan Fox
April 24, 2009
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Alan, Ypu don't know anything about nested hierarchies. So what coulod you write?Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Alan Fox:
Just out of curiosity, Joe, was this for long, and was it at a recognized academic institution?
Was what for long?
The time you spent studying to be a marine biologist.
And I doubt you would recognize any academic institution of higher learning.
But I could write to them asking they improve their teaching on nested hierarchies.Alan Fox
April 24, 2009
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iconofid:
The only possibility of design on this planet seems to involve designers who are deliberately trying to give the impression that naturalistic evolution is responsible.
There isn't any evidence that naturalistic evolution can do anything other than slight, oscillating variations.
If we have designers, they’re certainly weird, and appear to be trying to conceal their presence.
Only to people like you who don't have a clue. Ya see IF you could support your position ID would go away. But you cannot and that is why ID is here to stay.Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Could a fossil-like otter be a fossilized otter? Yes it could, especially seeing that there isn't any genetic data that would demonstrate a leg could "evolve" into a flipper.Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Engineering is far more challenging and rewarding than being a research scientist- and yes I have done both.
Well, I for one had no idea you had any formal training in biology. And yet you were a research scientist. Wow! Any published stuff?Alan Fox
April 24, 2009
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SCheesman says: "Still, even if it is transitional, what of it? ID doesn’t deny that forms evolved, and there obviously has to be a gradation and transitional forms, even in ID." Why do there have to be "gradation and transitional forms even in I.D."? I wouldn't expect such things if designers were designing life. You could have 100,000 planets with designed life, and there's no reason why there should be any appearance of transition in form or nested hierarchies. The only possibility of design on this planet seems to involve designers who are deliberately trying to give the impression that naturalistic evolution is responsible. There is no reason to design on an evolutionary timescale and within the parameters of evolutionary possibility. If we have designers, they're certainly weird, and appear to be trying to conceal their presence.iconofid
April 24, 2009
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Alan Fox:
Just out of curiosity, Joe, was this for long, and was it at a recognized academic institution?
Was what for long? And I doubt you would recognize any academic institution of higher learning.Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Define creationist. Ya see I think the living organisms on this planet were brought here as a colony- or several colonies. Why did I leave biology? Once I figured out the the theory of evolution was BS, I started challenging my professors only to learn that they only cared about defending the orthodoxy. I went to school to learn not to be indoctrinated. So I returned to my number one passion of electronic technology & electricty. Engineering is far more challenging and rewarding than being a research scientist- and yes I have done both. And I got to travel the world- every continent except Antartica and Austrailia- more countries than we have states.Joseph
April 24, 2009
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Three novel, complex adaptations in arthropods (wings, tracheae, spinnarets) that most likely have a common origin as variations of ancestral gills:
Changing conditions of life impose new requirements on the morphology and physiology of an organism. One of these changes is the evolutionary transition from aquatic to terrestrial life, leading to adaptations in locomotion, breathing, reproduction, and mechanisms for food capture. We have shown previously that insects' wings most likely originated from one of the gills of ancestral aquatic arthropods during their transition to life on land [[1]]. Here we investigate the fate of these ancestral gills during the evolution of another major arthropod group, the chelicerates. We examine the expression of two developmental genes, pdm/nubbin and apterous, that participate in the specification of insects' wings and are expressed in particular crustacean epipods/gills. In the horseshoe crab, a primitively aquatic chelicerate, pdm/nubbin is specifically expressed in opisthosomal appendages that give rise to respiratory organs called book gills. In spiders (terrestrial chelicerates), pdm/nubbin and apterous are expressed in successive segmental primordia that give rise to book lungs, lateral tubular tracheae, and spinnerets, novel structures that are used by spiders to breathe on land and to spin their webs [[2]]. Combined with morphological and paleonntological evidence [[3 9]], these observations suggest that fundamentally different new organs (wings, air-breathing organs, and spinnerets) evolved from the same ancestral structure (gills) in parallel instances of terrestrialization.
Damen WGM, T Saridaki & M Averof (2002). Diverse adaptations of an ancestral gill: a common evolutionary origin for wings, breathing organs,and spinnarets. Current Biology 12:1711-1716Dave Wisker
April 24, 2009
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BTW I was a staunch evolutionist until I started looking more closely at the scientific data while studying to be a zoologist/ marine biologist.
*steps back in amazement* Just out of curiosity, Joe, was this for long, and was it at a recognized academic institution?Alan Fox
April 24, 2009
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Regarding your marine biology studies, I take it your career took a different turn? What happened?mauka
April 24, 2009
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Joseph, I didn't say that you are a Christian. I said that you are a creationist. Do you disagree?mauka
April 24, 2009
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