Who are the Real Freethinkers, Darwinists or ID Folks?

_{Gil Dodgen

May 30, 2011

Intelligent Design}

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Arguing with Darwinists is like trying to teach calculus to people who have not yet mastered arithmetic.

kairosfocus has an excellent presentation here.

This is the kind of stuff Darwinists dismiss with a shrug of the shoulder while proclaiming that the Darwinian mechanism could have done it, and furthermore must have done it, because there is no other alternative.

My AI checkers program is approximately 65,000 lines of C code, with more lines than that required to compute the endgame databases. (By the way, it’s the coolest checkers program ever, and it’s available for free. You can even download the mega-version if you have enough bandwidth and patience. In addition, you can download a paper I and my colleague wrote about our research, which was published in the ICGA Journal. You can also download three my classical piano albums for free. At one time I was a classical concert pianist but finally decided that I would rather earn a living than be an artist.) But I digress.

The program runs on sophisticated hardware, also designed by intelligent agents.

The task of turning my program into a word processor, spreadsheet, or even a chess program would be utterly impossible without design. Any random modification of the source code would result in instantaneous disaster.

The only thing I can think of is that the average Darwinist has no experience in designing any complex, functionally integrated system. The workings of the simplest cell make my AI program and the hardware on which it runs look like tinker toys. This is why I posted my comments on the science is settled.

Self-replication does nothing to mitigate the probabilistic hurdles the Darwinian mechanism must overcome. How could this not be obvious to anyone with any experience in software or any other rigorous engineering discipline, and who has a basic understanding of combinatorial mathematics?

Oops, I forgot, most of these people have no experience in any rigorous engineering discipline. And those who do, and still believe in the Darwinian fantasy, have obviously undergone the atrophy and crippling of their basic reasoning powers — the product of many years of Darwinian indoctrination and suppression of free thought.

Who are the real freethinkers, Darwinists or ID folks? The Darwinian world is Orwellian.

Comments

Mung: "I find a great number of people here quite reasonable, to be honest." Oh well, live and let live, turn the other cheek, etc. Do not condemn the group based on the actions/opinions of one. And have another cuppa tea. Thank goodness I wasn't born before tea. :-)ellazimm_{June 2, 2011
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Who are the Real Freethinkers, Darwinists or ID Folks?
Neither.Mung_{June 1, 2011
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It’s tiring fighting biased views and prejudice.
I've found that there is more than one way to fight biased views and prejudice, and that some ways are more tiring than others. Some times perhaps a short change in tactics is in order. Try to figure out who is really worth your time. Who is serious about serious discussion. Decide whether you want to make a point to a larger audience in spite of the intransigence of your current "foe." Refuse to be side tracked into some other discussion until the current one has been resolved or shown incapable of resolution. I find a great number of people here quite reasonable, to be honest.Mung_{June 1, 2011
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Mung: It's tiring fighting biased views and prejudice.ellazimm_{June 1, 2011
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And then to top that off they come here and get ID confused with creationism. See how frustrating Darwinists can be! :)Mung_{June 1, 2011
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kairofocus asked in another thread "[w]hy is the debate over design theory so often so poisonous and polarised?" "Arguing with Darwinists is like trying to teach calculus to people who have not yet mastered arithmetic." "Oops, I forgot, most of these people have no experience in any rigorous engineering discipline. And those who do, and still believe in the Darwinian fantasy, have obviously undergone the atrophy and crippling of their basic reasoning powers — the product of many years of Darwinian indoctrination and suppression of free thought." "This is why I have given up arguing with Darwinists. Their brains have been fried by indoctrination in the transparently illogical and ludicrous claims of the greatest con job in the history of junk pseudoscience." "I realize that my posts at UD are somewhat inflammatory. So be it. Illogic of the magnitude displayed by Darwinists, and their unwillingness to follow the evidence where it leads, makes me feel like I’m trying to teach computer programming to people who have not yet figured out how to plug in their computers." "Arguing with Darwinists is like trying to teach calculus to people who have not yet mastered [refuse to learn any] arithmetic.”ellazimm_{May 31, 2011
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Ilion, Exactly! There's a kind of slavery that has no masters other than the human will. Darwinism is that slavery.CannuckianYankee_{May 31, 2011
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"Who are the real freethinkers, Darwinists or ID folks?" To paraphrase Chesterton, the IDist -- or even the Creationist -- is free to for "evolution" in his worldview, but the Darwinist is not free to allow for "creation" in his worldview.Ilion_{May 31, 2011
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"Arguing with Darwinists is like trying to teach calculus to people who ~~have not yet mastered~~ [refuse to learn any] arithmetic." Fixed it fer ya' ;)Ilion_{May 31, 2011
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Cannuck:
KF has really contributed some great posts to this forum, and I’m glad you used one of his posts as an example. I really appreciate his contribution. He should be paid with the amount of time he obviously puts into his posts, but I know that he really enjoys it. In addition, the patience he exemplifies in putting up with all that he has over several months is really quite remarkable. So I just want to say Kudos KF.
Agreed. In my opinion, the KF post I referenced should have a permanent link at UD: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/but-what-if-the-cambrian-robot-is-self-replicating/ In particular he points out that self-replication, which is often used by Darwinists as evidence of, and an escape hatch for, the creative powers of the Darwinian mechanism, is actually evidence of the exact opposite: Self-replication with algorithmic error detection and repair represents perhaps the highest-level insurmountable probabilistic hurdle that the Darwinian mechanism is hopelessly incapable of overcoming. This is why I have given up arguing with Darwinists. Their brains have been fried by indoctrination in the transparently illogical and ludicrous claims of the greatest con job in the history of junk pseudoscience. I realize that my posts at UD are somewhat inflammatory. So be it. Illogic of the magnitude displayed by Darwinists, and their unwillingness to follow the evidence where it leads, makes me feel like I'm trying to teach computer programming to people who have not yet figured out how to plug in their computers.GilDodgen_{May 31, 2011
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Thanks Gil, I guess I overlooked that.CannuckianYankee_{May 31, 2011
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Sure Mung, 2 cents for every wise crack. :)CannuckianYankee_{May 31, 2011
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He should be paid with the amount of time he obviously puts into his posts, but I know that he really enjoys it.
Can I be paid for the obvious lack of time I put into my posts?Mung_{May 31, 2011
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Cannuck, On the same page where you download the albums you can download complete program notes with much interesting stuff about the pieces, as both html and Word files. html: http://www.worldchampionshipcheckers.com/Piano/PianoNotes.html Word: http://www.worldchampionshipcheckers.com/Piano/PianoNotes.docGilDodgen_{May 31, 2011
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Gil, "You can also download three my classical piano albums for free. At one time I was a classical concert pianist but finally decided that I would rather earn a living than be an artist.) But I digress." I downloaded your Chopin albums. For some reason I got only one of them, and it's listed only as track numbers, and doesn't contain the names of the pieces, so I have no idea what I'm listening to other than you playing Chopin. It's an excellent recording and performance, though. Thanks for sharing that. If you ever come across a Cellist to team up with, might I suggest that you work on Chopin's Polonaise Brilliante for Cello and Piano? It's one of my favorites. I created a GilDodgen File in my Itunes. Would it be too much for me to share my new blog called ClassicalRap? It's a discussion forum about Classical music in general for novices, but I would like some input from people who know classical music. You can find it here: http://classicalrap.blogspot.com/ If you go there you'll discover what my first name is. (tempting, huh?). :) Others are welcome too. Back on topic. KF has really contributed some great posts to this forum, and I'm glad you used one of his posts as an example. I really appreciate his contribution. He should be paid with the amount of time he obviously puts into his posts, but I know that he really enjoys it. In addition, the patience he exemplifies in putting up with all that he has over several months is really quite remarkable. So I just want to say Kudos KF. I run into the same frustrations with Darwinists. I think it comes down to slowly peeling away at their materialistic assumptions, which can be quite a task. My problem is many of the ones I encounter know a whole lot more about science, math and technology than I do. But from being a part of this blog over the years I've learned to see through many of the assumptions with which they use that knowledge. But if I look on the bright side of it all, many of these bright folks have actually taken the time to educate me, so I appreciate them, and I appreciate the fact that they're here discussing. With many of them I end up using talking points, which perhaps are tiresome after a while, so I've decided to further educate myself on some of the more technical issues - similar to what Mung is doing, but I'm not nearly at his level yet. Free Thinking? Before I became a theist I wasn't interested in thinking much. Thus, I don't think I was free at all. I gained all of my intellectual passions after becoming a Christian at quite a young age (19). So if God does not free someone to really think, I don't know what will. Well, let's reword that: God does free someone to really think, and for themselves. That someone needs to allow God to release that freedom. Of course, if they don't believe in God, how are they to know that truth that sets them free?CannuckianYankee_{May 31, 2011
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Gil, I take it you wouldn't enjoy teaching me calculus, then. :)CannuckianYankee_{May 31, 2011
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Slightly OT, but hopefully may encourage some discussion: I just had to complete an esurvey. One of the questions was: "The teaching practices in this school always encourage discussion of both supporting and contradictory evidence." I had to press 'Agree' ... but there wasn't a button to say "but not on everything". Comments from any other educators with ID in mind? Would that question be proposed in your setting?AussieID_{May 30, 2011
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