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We hold these truths to be self-evident…

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Can you spot the common theme in these historic statements?

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” – Excerpt from the American Declaration of Independence, which was ratified on July 4, 1776.

Men are born and remain free and equal in rights. Social distinctions may be founded only upon the general good.” – Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (1789), article 1. The Declaration was approved by the National Constituent Assembly of France, on August 26, 1789.

“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.” – Excerpt from President Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address, delivered on November 19, 1863.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.” – Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948), article 1. The Declaration was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 10 December 1948 at the Palais de Chaillot, Paris.

“I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.‘”- Excerpt from the famous ‘I Have a Dream’ speech by Martin Luther King, Jr., delivered on 28 August 1963, at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C.

(Emphases mine – VJT.)

Belief in human equality is a vital part of our democratic heritage. Take this belief away, and the moral foundations of Western civilization immediately collapse, like a house of cards.

Atheists divided

Sad to say, many (perhaps most) of the world’s 25 most influential living atheists don’t seem to share this belief. Specifically, many of these atheists don’t believe that newborn babies have the same moral worth as human adults.

However, there are some notable exceptions. Quite a few of the world’s most influential atheists still firmly believe that newborn babies are just as important as adults, and for that, I applaud them.

The question of whether newborn babies have the same moral worth as human adults is a fundamental one. Putting it another way: is killing a newborn baby just as bad as killing an adult? If the world’s top atheists cannot even agree on this issue, then I think it is fair to regard them as a house divided. And a house divided against itself cannot stand, as Abraham Lincoln remarked (quoting Matthew 12:25) in a famous speech he delivered on June 16, 1858.

The inability of the world’s leading atheists to agree on such a simple moral question is big news. I think readers of this blog are entitled to hear about that.

Evidence, please?

I hear some of my readers asking, “So where’s your evidence that the world’s top atheists disagree on this issue?” I’m very happy to oblige. Here goes.

In a recent post, I invited the world’s 25 most influential living atheists to respond to a short quiz on the moral status of newborn babies. To make sure that they knew about the quiz, I contacted as many of them as I could (i.e. nearly all of them) by email. Three atheists (Professor Peter Atkins, Dr. Richard Carrier and Dr. Michael Shermer) were kind enough to respond to my quiz. Another (James Randi) declined to respond, on the grounds that his answers would be too lengthy, but at least he was polite enough to answer my email. Six more atheists (Professor P. Z. Myers, Professor Peter Singer, Professor Steven Pinker – see also here and here, – Professor Daniel Dennett, Professor Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens) had already made their views plain, in a public forum, so I was able to identify how they would have responded. Unfortunately, I was not able to ascertain the views of Sam Harris, Stephen Hawking, Steven Weinberg, Paul Kurtz, Lawrence Krauss, Edward O. Wilson, Jennifer Michael Hecht, John Brockman, Philip Pullman, Barbara Forrest, David Sloan Wilson, Ray Kurzweil, William B. (“Will”) Provine, Kai Nielsen and Susan Blackmore. I was pleased, however, that I had managed to find out how nine of the 25 most influential living atheists viewed the moral status of newborn babies.

There were five questions in my short quiz. One regular reader and commenter on Uncommon Descent, markf, remarked on his blog that “the response to the last question is the only interesting one.” He was right, and I’m going to focus on this question in this post. The last question on my quiz was:

Do you believe that killing a newborn baby is just as wrong as killing an adult?

I soon discovered that the world’s 25 most influential living atheists are divided on this question. To his credit, Dr. Michael Shermer answered with a straight “Yes.” Professor Peter Atkins answered with a qualified “Yes,” adding that if the baby were irrevocably damaged in some way, he would modify his response. And on the basis of statements he has made on Youtube, I was able to ascertain that Christopher Hitchens would answer my question with an emphatic “Yes.”

Dr. Richard Carrier, on the other hand, answered “No,” and carefully explained his reasons. Although he believes newborn babies are persons with a right to life, he also believes that the moral worth of an adult is generally greater than that of a newborn baby; hence killing a baby isn’t as bad as killing an adult. Carrier doesn’t believe that all human beings are equal; rather, he believes that human beings occupy different points on a scale of moral worth. Three other atheists who did not respond (Professor P. Z. Myers (see here for a recent post of his, here for one reader’s comment on the post and here for P. Z. Myers’ reply), Professor Peter Singer, and Professor Daniel Dennett) have already made it clear in their published writings that they don’t even regard newborn babies as persons, let alone as individuals whose moral worth is equal to that of adults. Obviously, these atheists would answer “No” to my question. Professor Steve Pinker has published an article (“Why they kill their newborns”, The New York Yimes, November 2, 1997) in which he appears to suggest that he doesn’t regard newborn babies as persons, although he opposes the legalization of infanticide. However, he is quite up-front about one thing: he doesn’t think that killing a newborn baby is a crime of the same gravity of killing an adult. (See here, here and here for a discussion.) Finally, I was able to ascertain from Professor Richard Dawkins’ book, The God Delusion (Boston & New York: Houghton Mifflin Co., 2006), that he regards individuals with highly developed nervous systems as having a greater moral worth than individuals with poorly developed nervous systems, because the former are capable of much greater suffering than the latter. As Dawkins puts it in his discussion of abortion:

A consequentialist or utilitarian is likely to approach the abortion question in a very different way, by trying to weigh up suffering. Does the embryo suffer? (Presumably not if it is aborted before it has a nervous system; and even if it is old enough to have a nervous system it surely suffers less than, say, an adult cow in a slaughterhouse.) Does the pregnant woman, or her family, suffer if she does not have an abortion? Very possibly so; and, in any case, given that the embryo lacks a nervous system, shouldn’t the mother’s well-developed nervous system have the choice?

But since a newborn baby’s nervous system is also far less developed than an adult’s, it follows that on Professor Dawkins’ view, killing a newborn baby is not as bad as killing an adult.

That makes three of the world’s 25 most influential atheists who believe that killing a newborn baby is just as wrong as killing an adult, and six of these atheists who don’t think it is. Unfortunately, I was unable to ascertain the opinions of the remaining sixteen atheists, on this vital ethical question. However, the big split in opinion on such a basic moral issue highlights the fact that on ethical matters, the world’s leading atheists are a house divided.

This prompts me to ask: if the world’s top atheists cannot even agree on this issue, how much confidence can we have in their repeated assertion that “naturalistic ethics” can deliver “goodness without God”?

Blowing smoke

Now that I’ve exposed the ethical disunity of the world’s leading atheists, I expect one of them will respond with a withering attack on my allegedly “simplistic” approach to ethics. We’ll doubtless be subjected to a long lecture about the hardships faced by our ancestors, about how difficult it was for mothers to simultaneously nurse two children in pre-industrial societies, and about how these mothers often had to make painful choices about which child to feed and which to let die. (All perfectly true, but completely irrelevant to the ethical point at issue, which is: do babies matter just as much as the rest of us do?) The “history lecture” will then be followed by a self-righteous tirade against “absolutist” ethics, with its high-falutin’ talk of “persons,” “rights,” “duties” and “moral worth.” Morality, we will be told, is always context-dependent, and there are no black-and-white answers to moral questions. (Now that’s a self-refuting assertion if ever I heard one.)

To my readers, I would like to say: don’t be fooled. All of this is nothing but an exercise in blowing smoke. It reflects the desperation of the world’s leading atheists to cover up the embarrassing fact that they cannot even agree on a simple ethical question: do newborn babies matter as much as the rest of us? Or putting it another way: is killing a newborn baby just as wrong as killing any other member of the community?

Now, I realize that there are some people who would reject the foregoing questions as meaningless. These people tend to have an instinctive distrust of abstract ethical reasoning, and they will stoutly maintain that moral questions can only be answered in relation to a particular time, place and circumstance. So here’s my answer to them. You want a concrete moral situation? Fine. I’ll give you one.

A tale of two killers

A man (let’s call him Smith) with an automatic weapon walks into a hospital maternity ward and kills the nurse on duty, before being wrestled to the ground by two alert, courageous bystanders. At the same time, in a nearby town, another man (let’s call him Jones) with an identical automatic weapon walks into a hospital maternity ward and kills a newborn baby, before being wrestled to the ground. Both men are put on trial, and both of them are declared sane and capable of distinguishing right from wrong, at the time of the killings. Should both receive the same punishment?

We know how nine of the 25 most influential living atheists would answer this question. Three would say yes, and six would say no. Six of these atheists would regard the nurse as having a greater moral worth than the newborn baby; hence they would say that the gravity of Smith’s offense is greater than that of Jones. Only three atheists (out of the nine whose views I was able to identify) would correctly answer that Smith and Jones should be punished in the same way.

Six of the world’s most influential atheists would give Jones a lighter punishment than Smith. I have to say that I find that scandalous. I will continue to call these six atheists out on this one, because their position is morally odious.

A short note on the practice of infanticide in human history

Let me add that I am quite aware of the reasons why infanticide was practiced in pre-industrial societies, and why it continues to be practiced in some societies today. (Readers might like to have a look at this article, and also here and here.) I have no wish to pass judgment on mothers in times past, who were faced with conflicting obligations about which child they should feed, or mothers who were unable to take proper care of their babies without jeopardizing the lives of other people in their community. But the fact that these mothers had to make difficult choices about their babies, in extreme situations, doesn’t imply that they believed that the babies they killed were any less important, morally speaking, than the adults in their community. All it shows is that these adults were not able to take care of the newborn babies, owing to the extreme poverty of their community. The same goes for hunter-gatherer communities that were sometimes forced to abandon elderly people whom they were no longer able to take care of, because they were unable to keep up with the rest of the tribe. Nobody in these communities attempted to rationalize the practice by saying that old folk are “less important” than young people; the community was simply unable to take care of them, that’s all.

Other cases of infanticide simply reflect long-standing cultural prejudices against women. I have no sympathy with communities that engage in the barbaric practice of female infanticide, which remains widespread in India and China (see here and here). Why? Because I know of other cultures, which eventually managed to eradicate this vile practice: first, the Jews in ancient Israel (Leviticus 18:21; Deuteronomy 18:10-13; Psalm 106:35-40), and later on, the Christians in Europe (see here, here and here) and the Muslims in the Arab world (see here). If they could do it, then I have to ask: why can’t India and China? So yes, I do condemn the people who perpetuate the practice of child murder in these countries: furious fathers who were hoping for a son, elderly matriarchs who pressure young mothers into killing their baby girls because they were once told by their husbands to do the same thing, and yes, also the weak, acquiescing mothers who kill their baby girls because they’re afraid of being shunned, humiliated or beaten up. The acquiescence of these mothers is understandable, but it’s still morally wrong. There are some injustices you have to stand up to, because if you don’t, then who will?

A woman’s fear of having an illegitimate birth exposed is another common reason for the occurrence of infanticide in history. Again, while we can certainly understand the action of a mother who kills her newborn child in such circumstances, that does not make it right. Someone has to eventually stand up and fight an unjust social system which victimizes illegitimate mothers, while letting the fathers get off scot-free.

Finally, the silliest historical reason for the practice of infanticide was a religious one: some ancient societies condoned and even mandated child sacrifice as a way of placating the gods. And now ask yourself this: if you had lived in those times, and you wanted to uproot this barbarous practice, do you think that you could have done so if you were also on the record as publicly affirming, as many modern atheists do, that babies don’t matter as much as adults? Would you not stand a much better chance if you were armed with a prophetic warning from an angry God, who claimed to be the one true God, and who (i) asserted that children and adults alike were made in His image and likeness, (ii) declared the practice of child sacrifice to be a detestable abomination, and (iii) commanded the destruction of altars dedicated to the false gods whose priests demanded this sacrifice?

Religion has been responsible for many abuses in human history, but atheism is a totally ineffective way to combat these abuses. Only a good religion can displace the harmful practices of a bad religion.

In my next post, I shall argue that key concepts invoked by Intelligent Design can help us to understand precisely why all human beings – from embryos to Einstein – are of equal moral worth.

Comments
Stephenb
Give me an example, and I will show you how they were wrong.
I am no expert on the moral law or the details of how particular Christians have interpreted it.  I am just deeply sure that it will be possible to interpret any such code in all sorts of ways.  To demonstrate this give me a link to a clear and complete account of the natural moral law.  Then I will construct a case based on that with a result that you find unacceptable.
You have just changed the subject from the validity of Christian ethics, which is under discussion, to the efficacy of Christian preaching. Why do you do that?
Because, the root of this discussion was whether a code such as the natural moral law provides an effective way of moving forward with difficult moral issues. Given this, it is extremely relevant that in practice it does not result in Christians agreeing on major ethical judgements. This may be down to the fact that the natural moral law is open to interpretation or it may be down to poor explanations or whatever. Whatever, it is not solving the problem.
Well, then, why did you just argue in the previous comment  that “rigid ideological constraints” are not a good approach to difficult issues,” as, if they had nothing else going for them?
Because vj had just emphasised how important it was that the natural moral law was the constraints it places on our behaviour:
More to the point, though, “natural law ethics” sets bounds as to what we can do and what we can’t. For 2,000 years, these bounds have imposed constraints on Jews and Christians, preventing them from sanctioning behavior permitted in other cultures: female infanticide and suicide, in particular. To let go of this body of thought would be a terrible mistake, and a gigantic backward step for humanity.
markf
February 1, 2011
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---mark: “Of course the problem is that they [Christians who fail the test of virtue because they are ignorant about or refuse to follow Christian ethics and the natural moral law] would almost certainly say that they did understand and were following Christian ethics. How are you to prove they are wrong?” Give me an example, and I will show you how they were wrong. ---“The important point is that the invocation of a natural moral law has not in fact prevented Christians from behaving in ways that we would consider unethical and sometimes justifying this behaviour by reference to Christian doctrine (whether it be misinterpreted or not).” You have just changed the subject from the validity of Christian ethics, which is under discussion, to the efficacy of Christian preaching. Why do you do that? —**mark: “However, I am not convinced rigid ideological constraints are a good approach to difficult issues.” My Response: Christian Ethics and The natural moral law are not limited to the prohibition of bad behavior. They also encourage good behavior. Morality consists not only in acknowledging the vices but also in celebrating the virtues. …… ---“I understand that moral codes are not just constraints.” Well, then, why did you just argue in the previous comment [**] that “rigid ideological constraints” are not a good approach to difficult issues,” as, if they had nothing else going for them? Each time I refute an argument, you make a new one as if the refuted argument was not really the one you meant to make at all.StephenB
January 30, 2011
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F/N: With all due respect, the basic problem of ethical failure is a HUMAN problem, not a specifically Christian one, as has repeatedly been pointed out, including above. The Christian faith and the testimony of literally millions points to how a penitent commitment to God and a living relationship with him, has had positive, life transforming effects. Going beyond that -- and despite Kant's own dismissive remarks -- the CI is plainly directly related to the Golden Rule, the foundation stone of Christian ethics. Looking at the (less commonly highlighted) discussion in the Epistle to the Romans:
Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them . . . . Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
We see here a clear statement that conscience serves as an in-built inner candle for all men who are sufficiently aware to be responsible, being informed by the principle summed up in the golden rule: to love the other as one loves oneself. This is why there is such a common core resonance of basic moral principles, once the artificial distinctions and dehumanisations of the other that lend themselves to trying to excuse what is known or should be known to be wrong, are put out of the way. Also, we can see that here can be no justification in the Christian frame, for that which harms neighbour, one living in the circle of the civil peace of justice. (Rom 13:1 - 7 just preceding, is the key text that grounds civil government as a servant of God responsible for the use of the sword in defence of the civil peace of justice in the face of the threat posed by evildoers. Implicit in that, too, is that such authorities are accountable over justice and if they fail sufficiently badly, are subject to replacement. Thank God, the ballot box and rule by law anchored in sound constitutions, are peaceful means for that in our day.) And, in this context, the basic problem still stands un-addressed: evolutionary materialism -- though its adherents themselves find themselves under the obligation of that candle within -- has in it no IS that can ground OUGHT. So, it ends up in relativism and in the end amorality, which the history of he past 2,300 years has repeatedly told us, and moreso the past century, that that should give us pause. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
January 30, 2011
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StephenB #86
Typically, when “Christians” sanction something that most people would find unacceptable, it is because they don’t understand or are not following their own Christian ethics.
Of course the problem is that they would almost certainly say that they did understand and were following Christian ethics. How are you to prove they are wrong?  The important point is that the invocation of a natural moral law has not in fact prevented Christians from behaving in ways that we would consider unethical and sometimes justifying this behaviour by reference to Christian doctrine (whether it be misinterpreted or not).
Christian Ethics and The natural moral law are not limited to the prohibition of bad behavior. They also encourage good behavior. Morality consists not only in acknowledging the vices but also in celebrating the virtues. ……  
I understand that moral codes are not just constraints.  It was just that vj was emphasising that aspect as the major advantage of moral natural law.  More generally I am not convinced that a set of prescriptive rules for good and bad behaviour will provide a solution to the fundamental problems he rightly identifies. Your moral code may convince you about what is right, but this will not help you very much if you cannot convince the rest of the world.  And the rest of the world does not on the whole use moral codes to develop their views on these problems.
Utilitarianism, on the other hand, cannot deal with the issue of good habits or bad habits, much less can it measure growth in virtue or regression in vice.
I only offer utilitarianism as one example of an alternative systematic approach to ethics – although I think it can deal with virtue and vice – particular in the form of rule utilitarianism. Other codes which allow a systematic approach to ethical problems a include the Kantian categorical imperative (which does not require a deity), and alternative religious doctrines including Islam.  As someone once said about IT standards, the good thing about moral codes is there are so many to choose from.markf
January 30, 2011
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Of course, The Sermon On The Mount includes both the Beatitudes and the Warnings, [and a number of other things] but I was simply trying to provide the moral balance implied by weighing the import of the virtues in the context of weighing the import of the vices.StephenB
January 30, 2011
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---markf: “ For 2,000 years, these bounds have imposed constraints on Jews and Christians, preventing them from sanctioning behavior permitted in other cultures: female infanticide and suicide, in particular. To let go of this body of thought would be a terrible mistake, and a gigantic backward step for humanity.” When natural law principles are accepted and acted upon, good things happen. ---“As we have seen it has not prevented some Christians from sanctioning a lot of things that most people find unacceptable.” Typically, when “Christians” sanction something that most people would find unacceptable, it is because they don’t understand or are not following their own Christian ethics. Or, it may be that they know what is right, but do not have the courage to act on what they know. [At one time, all Christian Churches knew that artificial contraception is wrong, but most of them sold out by 1930 when it became apparent that Christian morality sometimes requires sacrifices. [“Christianity has not been found tried and wanting, it has been found difficult and left untried”—G.K. Chesterton]. Can you think of any examples that would show how the natural moral law, properly understood and faithfully practiced, produced bad results? ---“However, I am not convinced rigid ideological constraints are a good approach to difficult issues.” Christian Ethics and The natural moral law are not limited to the prohibition of bad behavior. They also encourage good behavior. Morality consists not only in acknowledging the vices but also in celebrating the virtues. Neither can each be understood except in the context of the other. Thou Shalt Not Kill is the counterpoise to Thou Shalt Value Life as an Objective Good. Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor’s Goods can be understood as other side of Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself. The Sermon on the Mount is the counterpoise to the Beatitudes. [The meek will not inherit the earth [The Beatitudes on Virtue] unless they first control their anger [The Sermon On The Mount on Vice]. Utilitarianism, on the other hand, cannot deal with the issue of good habits or bad habits, much less can it measure growth in virtue or regression in vice. Indeed, it cannot even measure what is says that we SHOULD measure [greatest good for the greatest number]. It cannot possibly forecast or even guess about all future consequences of any proposed set of actions, and cannot, therefore, provide any insight into which actions would be good on those accounts.StephenB
January 30, 2011
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vj #83
My point would be that in order to formulate ethical judgments on a systematic basis, we need a positive account of human flourishing – i.e. of what is good for people. We also need to know what we are, as human beings. “Know thyself,” as an inscription on the temple of Apollo in Delphi put it.
I don’t think this is true.  For example, the different types of utilitarianism are systematic and don’t require any particular account of what a human is.
However, in today’s world of cyborgs, AI, xenotransplantation, IVF, cloning, the Great Ape project, PVS patients, cryogenics, near-death experiences and various proposed definitions for brain death, we really need to think through the ethical issues carefully, and in depth.
One of the great benefits of “natural law ethics” is that it comes equipped with a toolkit of concepts, as well as a metaphysical framework, which are able to encompass all these tricky issues.
So does Islam, so does utilitarianism.  You can’t justify a moral system on the basis of having a useful toolkit of concepts.  The moral system has to lead to acceptable consequences. This brushes on my MSc dissertation.  I looked at how politicians in the US and the UK argued the case for and against funding stem cell research and the use of hybrid cells respectively.  The interesting thing was that even in the US they hardly ever referred to any principles or invoked religion.  The arguments were almost entirely round utility and emotion.  This is how these difficult issues will get resolved.
More to the point, though, “natural law ethics” sets bounds as to what we can do and what we can’t. For 2,000 years, these bounds have imposed constraints on Jews and Christians, preventing them from sanctioning behavior permitted in other cultures: female infanticide and suicide, in particular. To let go of this body of thought would be a terrible mistake, and a gigantic backward step for humanity.
As we have seen it has not prevented some Christians from sanctioning a lot of things that most people find unacceptable.  I accept that Christian teaching on infanticide has done a lot to prevent Christians practicing and sanctioning infanticide (Islam and Hinduism also believe suicide to be great sin and there are very few religions that condone it).  However, I am not convinced rigid ideological constraints are a good approach to difficult issues.  (Incidentally I see that I was wrong in my previous comment – infanticide in the USA is in the hundreds not the single digits – but still a relatively minor issue compared to the millions subjected to slavery).markf
January 29, 2011
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#81 vj Thank you for digging up those examples.  I have to say that the  penalty for killing new born children (whether by the mother or someone else) does not strike me as an important legal ramification.  Whether it be less than the penalty for killing an adult or not – everyone agrees that there should be a penalty and I am sure they agree it should be severe unless there are mitigating circumstances (as for adult murder).  How many murders of new born children are there in Western countries? I would be surprised if it exceeds single digits per year in the USA and I am willing to bet they are almost all by someone closely related.  In such horrific situations the legal issue of the penalty relative to killing an adult seems a minor consideration. The health care issue is much more relevant,  although it is no longer addressing the question of whether it is more wrong to kill a new born baby than an adult. Thank you for the excellent Persad, Wertheimer, Emanuel paper.  Here is an issue where value of new born baby’s life is indeed weighed against the value of a young adult.  I don’t think it is anywhere close to slavery or abortion in terms of the number of lives affected – but I would guess there are thousands of people affected every year.  The thing that really struck me was not only did the paper suggest that a baby’s life should weigh less than an adults – but this argument is supported by empirical surveys. I had a quick look at the first of the references (Tsuchiya et al) and conveniently this includes a summary of other such surveys – all of which support this conclusion.  (In some surveys the age at which life was most valued was as high as 35 or 40 – which really surprised me!). So we have some solid evidence as to how people intuitively value a new born life as compared to an adult.   You may think the paper’s conclusion to be vile but you appear to be out of line with the majority.markf
January 29, 2011
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markf For what it's worth, I'm prepared to acknowledge that there has been a great diversity of views countenanced by Christians on certain ethical matters, and that at times some Christians have endorsed behavior we would rightly judge as barbarous today. My point would be that in order to formulate ethical judgments on a systematic basis, we need a positive account of human flourishing - i.e. of what is good for people. We also need to know what we are, as human beings. "Know thyself," as an inscription on the temple of Apollo in Delphi put it. I don't doubt that atheists are every bit as empathetic as Christians. Empathy alone should have been enough to put a stop to the slave trade before it even got started, and it is a great shame that many Christians were prepared to turn a blind eye to it while it happened, though some courageously condemned it. However, in today's world of cyborgs, AI, xenotransplantation, IVF, cloning, the Great Ape project, PVS patients, cryogenics, near-death experiences and various proposed definitions for brain death, we really need to think through the ethical issues carefully, and in depth. One of the great benefits of "natural law ethics" is that it comes equipped with a toolkit of concepts, as well as a metaphysical framework, which are able to encompass all these tricky issues. More to the point, though, "natural law ethics" sets bounds as to what we can do and what we can't. For 2,000 years, these bounds have imposed constraints on Jews and Christians, preventing them from sanctioning behavior permitted in other cultures: female infanticide and suicide, in particular. To let go of this body of thought would be a terrible mistake, and a gigantic backward step for humanity. Atheism per se doesn't necessarily prevent someone from reasoning about natural law, but atheism coupled with materialism does. Singer's reasoning is flawed precisely for this reason, as I'll argue in my next post: his materialism prevents him from making the relevant metaphysical distinctions. Anyway, I shall stop here and get to work on my next post, which should be up in a day or two. It'll contain an interesting story, which I think readers will like.vjtorley
January 29, 2011
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Dr. Torley and markf, today's Unbelievable Radio Broadcast is relevant to this topic: Off-duty policemen in Bogota, Columbia shoot street children because they consider them to be "disposables". Using stories such as this Mark Roques asks whether value in human life can be found anywhere other than our being made "In the image of God". Atheist Paul Thompson argues that we don't need a supernatural explanation for the value we place on human beings. They discuss the issue of where human value comes from and Mark's "Subversive Questions and storytelling" method of apologetics. http://www.premier.org.uk/unbelievablebornagain77
January 29, 2011
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markf (#77) Thank you for your post. You write:
You say "the moral issue of whether killing a newborn baby is just as wrong as killing an adult is a substantive one, with important legal ramifications" – can you provide some examples?
First, there's the case that Steve Pinker brought up in 1997: what should the legal penalty be in Western countries, for mothers who kill their newborn babies? Should it be as severe as the penalty for mothers who kill young children? I would say yes. (Regarding the commonly heard claim that mothers who kill their newborn babies are not fully responsible for their actions: in 1970, a groundbreaking study by Dr. Phillip Resnick of Cleveland's Case Western Reserve University found that mothers who kill their newborns usually aren't psychotic, depressed or suicidal, but that mothers who kill their older children often are. In 2006, Resnick and other Case Western researchers released a study that summarized data from dozens of previous research papers on infanticide. It confirmed that mothers who killed their newborn babies are more likely to be rational than mothers who kill older children.) Second, there's the question of whether the legal penalty for a murderer killing a newborn baby should be the same as that for a murderer killing a young child, or a murderer an adult. I would argue that they should be the same in all cases. Third, there's the question of whether newborn babies are entitled to the same level of medical assistance as young children, teenagers and adults. This is a pressing problem, and President Obama’s Health Policy Advisor, Ezekiel Emanuel, has some very creepy views on this subject. See the following article (which he co-authored): Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions by Govind Persad, Alan Wertheimer and Ezekiel J. Emanuel, in The Lancet, 31 January 2009, vol. 373, pp. 423-431. And now read what the man says:
The death of a 20-year-old young woman is intuitively worse than that of a 2-month-old girl, even though the baby has had less life. The 20-year-old has a much more developed personality than the infant, and has drawn upon the investment of others to begin as-yet-unfulfilled projects. Adolescents have received substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments. Similarly, adolescence brings with it a developed personality capable of forming and valuing long-term plans whose fulfilment requires a complete life. As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, "It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old child dies and worse still when an adolescent does"; this argument is supported by empirical surveys... When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated (figure). (Emphases mine – VJT.)
So according to Emanuel, babies should have a lower priority to receive medical assistance than adults, because adults have more developed personalities. All I can say is: "How vile!" As I wrote in a comment on this article two years ago (see https://uncommondescent.com/education/not-very-nice/#comment-330331 ):
Evidently, my intuitions and Emanuel's are poles apart. For me and, I suspect, for most people, the crime of killing a newborn infant is, if anything, more evil than killing an adult. We might pardon a man who murdered another man; but the crime of murdering a child is unpardonable. This tells us that intuitively, people regard babies as being every bit as important as adolescents and adults, if not more so.
If newborn babies are denied medical assistance because adults take priority, then that has important legal ramifications. Consider a hospital attempting to implement Emanuel's recommendations. Citing neglect of newborn human life, a concerned resident then sues the hospital, which then appeals to a higher court. How should the court rule? Those are just a few examples, off the top of my head.vjtorley
January 29, 2011
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Heinrich (#69) Thank you for your post. You write:
How about the pope's position on abortion? It gives the unborn baby (which the Catholic Church views as a person) more of a right to live than the mother.
The teaching of the Catholic Church is that the direct killing of an innocent human life - whether it be killing the mother in order to save the baby, or killing the baby to save the mother - is always wrong. Sometimes, however, a life-saving action may have the unintentional, indirect effect of ending another life. The removal of a cancerous uterus may unintentionally result in the death of the unborn child; but the Church does not consider this to be murder. Surgery intended to terminate the life of an innocent human being, however, is considered by the Catholic Church to be intrinsically wrong. The unborn child does not have any more of a right to live than its mother. It simply has the right not to be intentionally killed.vjtorley
January 29, 2011
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#78 vj Thanks for these examples. Almost as soon as I wrote it I realised it would be quite easy for you to meet the challenge. Atheists in general have a wide range of opinions about moral issues just as theists do. But as far as real ethical decisions are concerned they are certainly no more disparate than theists as a whole and I don't see any evidence they are more disparate then Christians as a whole. The Tooley example is interesting. Here is an atheist who has worked through a moral code of sorts in detail and come to a conclusion that emotionally most people find unacceptable. It is a prime example of the danger of "top down" morals. As Hume said: "reason should be a slave to passion".markf
January 29, 2011
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markf You wrote:
I challenge you to find a leading atheist who does not agree that: * killing people is wrong (including killing those that have different beliefs and killing new born babies)
Happy to oblige. How about Michael Tooley, Professor of Philosophy at the University of Colorado-Boulder? Philosophers on Abortion and Infanticide by Frank Bouchier-Hayes. In Defense of Abortion and Infanticide by Professor Michael Tooley. In Moral Issues, edited by Jan Narveson, Oxford University Press, Toronto and New York, 1983, 215-33. You also asked:
I challenge you to find a leading atheist who does not agree that: * slavery of any form is wrong
Slavery of any form? You do realize that the United States Constitution still permits slavery, don't you? 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Finally, you wrote:
I challenge you to find a leading atheist who does not agree that: * practicing homosexuality is not wrong
OK. How about Ayn Rand? (Not dead very long; still influential.) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_and_homosexuality . In a 1968 lecture, she said, "I do not approve of such practices or regard them as necessarily moral, but it is improper for the law to interfere with a relationship between consenting adults." (Ayn Rand Answers, p. 18.)vjtorley
January 29, 2011
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vj I said it was interesting - not that it was important. It was interesting because it is not easy to decide what is the right answer whereas the others are straightforward (but important). You say "the moral issue of whether killing a newborn baby is just as wrong as killing an adult is a substantive one, with important legal ramifications" - can you provide some examples? Be careful to distinguish it from the issue of whether killing babies is wrong. Babies are killed all too frequently (although hardly ever in Western countries). And everyone of those 25 atheists would agree that was very wrong. Here is another way of looking at this. Atheists do not have a natural moral law. Theists do. An interesting question might be does having a natural moral law provide more consistency in actual practical ethical decisions. The answer to me seems to be a resounding no!markf
January 29, 2011
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markf The question of whom to save in a house fire or in a surgical operation does indeed come up "once in a blue moon," but the moral issue of whether killing a newborn baby is just as wrong as killing an adult is a substantive one, with important legal ramifications, and it is not a once-in-a-blue-moon issue. Sadly, babies are killed all too frequently. And the underlying issue of whether a newborn baby's life has the same moral worth as an adult's life is also a substantive one. If I were writing a book on ethics, it would be one of the first questions I'd want to address. Questions relating to the value (or importance) of an entity's life take precedence over all others, as they relate to the beings which populate our moral universe. Questions regarding slavery are substantial, but less important than issues relating to life. I am surprised that you belittle the issue which you yourself raised in your blog, when you wrote that the last question in my five-part quiz was the only interesting one.vjtorley
January 29, 2011
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vj You are using the most extraordinary contortions to get round the fact that Christians have fundamental moral disagreements: (1) Christians may disagree to the extent of killing each other and implementing slavery , but this is just how they interpet the natual moral law not their understanding of the law. So it doesn't really count. (2) Those that condone homosexuality and whose evaluations therefore conflict with natural law are therefore not Christians (although some of them are fully qualified ministers). (3) However, those that are pacificists are Christians even though they based their ethical judgement on the New Testament and not the natural law. I challenge you to find a leading atheist who does not agree that: * killing people is wrong (including killing those that have different beliefs and killing new born babies) * slavery of any form is wrong * practicing homosexuality is not wrong Like Christians they will probably disagree over pacificism. Meanwhile you make a big deal of * they disagree over an issue which comes up once in blue moon and where normal reaction seems to vary according to the context (surgeon versus burning house). * Christians agree over the natural moral law (which does not prevent them disagreeing on what they actually do) and if someone believes in Christ but doesn't agree on the natural law they are no longer Christian by definition! Come on!markf
January 28, 2011
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markf (#70) I'd like to address up-front the substantive point you make about moral disagreements between Christians. I note that neither of the examples you cite has to do with natural moral law, as the killing of a baby does. With regard to the killing of heretics, many Christians in the Middle Ages came to accept this barbarous practice on the basis of their interpretation of certain Scriptural passages in the Old Testament, which they mistakenly believed had relevance to their present situation. They did not, however, base their arguments on natural law. So we can see here that it was their misinterpretation of a Divine command that generated the disagreement. Ditto for slavery in the letter by the Rev. Furman, which you cited. Towards the end of his letter, Rev. Furman acknowledged that a master had an obligation not to treat his slaves in a way which he could not consistently wish to be treated himself, were he in their position. What led him astray here was not natural law but his misinterpretation of Scripture: "for the right of holding slaves is clearly established by the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." He interpreted those precepts fairly liberally, to justify not only the owning of slaves, but also keeping their descendants in slavery. It was not natural law reasoning that led him to this erroneous conclusion, however. What all this tells us is that Scripture can be a deadly book in the hands of people (even Christians) whose hearts are not pure, for they are apt to misinterpret it in a way that justifies social vices that they might want to maintain. You also remark that "(h)aving a detailed moral code does not seem to have prevented large and important disagreements among the religious generally and Christians in particular – whether it be pacifism, homosexuality, abortion, contraception or slavery." No Christian writers of any stripe defended homosexuality before 1970, and those that do now cannot be called Christian, as they (i) reject Scriptural inerrancy, and (ii) base their evaluations of right and wrong not on the principles of natural law, but on the empirical findings of science (e.g. "Homosexuality is found in most species of animals, therefore it's OK.") The unanimous condemnation of abortion among Christian bishops, teachers and theologians during the past 2,000 years speaks for itself. This was equally true even during times when some Christians expressed doubts as to whether the fetus possessed a rational soul. Slavery is a matter which StephenB has fully addressed above, so I won't add to his comments here. Pacifism is probably the best example you have. But again, Christian pacifists based their opposition to war not on natural law, but on their interpretation of the New Testament ("Turn the other cheek.") In short, regarding natural law, the degree of agreement among Christians over the past 2,000 years is striking - especially when compared with the vehement disagreements that are found between atheists living in the same country, at the same point in history. Finally, your remarks about the surgeon's dilemma don't establish that people think the life of a baby is less worth saving than that of the mother. My counter-example of the house-fire shows otherwise: most people would save the baby first and the mother second, in that case. All the surgeon's dilemma shows is simply that people's intuitions about the rights and obligations of hosts and guests tend to over-ride their judgments about the relative worth of the two lives.vjtorley
January 28, 2011
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---markf: "A few years ago in the UK the rail services equipped themselves for snow fall but were still chaotic when snow fell. Their excuse was that it was the wrong kind of snow and this has become a standing joke. I can’t help having similar feelings about the wrong kind of slavery." I think most people would acknowledge the significant difference between chattel slavery and POW slavery if someone would take the time to make the distinction for them [and provide parallel examples of the difference between extrinsic evil and conditional evil] as I tried to do for you. However, it is not my intention to persuade you to accept that distinction, since I know that you will not. To accept the distinction is to concede the argument. I am speaking primarily to those in my audience who may have been mislead by the Wikipedia link, which advances the false argument that the Catholic Church once officially endorsed slavery and later changed its position. That some high-ranking churchmen violated the moral teaching of their own church is a fact of history, but their scandalous behavior has nothing at all to do with the validity and repeated proclamations of the teachings themselves.StephenB
January 28, 2011
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vjt: "1. Do you believe babies have the same moral worth as adults?" "In Judeo-Christian moral thinking, each human life is regarded as having an equal and infinite value. Hence babies matter just as much as adults do. That’s not vague." ...except that you DO NOT hold the worth of a newborn baby to be equal to the worth of a human adult – there is a glaringly obvious gradient in value in your declared default strategy of invariably saving the baby and letting the adult die when faced with being able to save only one of them;molch
January 28, 2011
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vj As usual too many things to dispute. I will have to leave some out. I will start with a less important but interesting point:
In Judeo-Christian moral thinking, each human life is regarded as having an equal and infinite value. Hence babies matter just as much as adults do. That’s not vague. And if that’s the case, killing a baby is just as bad as killing an adult.
It seems to follow fairly directly from this thinking that if confronted with the choice of saving one life or the other there is nothing to choose between them (the surgeon’s dilemma). So it is curious that most people’s intuition is different.  It is far from obvious that it makes killing one or the other equally wrong (although Christian doctrine may say this in addition). The wrongness of a deed is not typically measured just in terms of the value of what is lost (or are Christians closet utilitarians?).  It depends on the motivation of the sinner, any mitigating circumstances, what it tells us about the killers mentality, all sorts of things.  Just think of Foot’s trolley examples. Now to something more substantial.
Ethical disagreements between Christians may also relate to how an abstract universal moral principle applies to these particular circumstances. But disagreements about fundamental principles themselves are inconceivable, within the Christian tradition.
This is an extraordinary claim.  You say that not only do such disagreements not happen – they are inconceivable! Is it inconceivable that the opposing sides of the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre disagreed on fundamental principles?   Do you not a have fundamental disagreement with the principles outlined in Rev. Richard Furman’s COMMUNICATION To the Governor of South-Carolina : “for the right of holding slaves is clearly established by the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example.” Or are you going to claim that he was talking about a sort of slavery that is OK under certain circumstances? Now to the main argument.  You are concerned that atheists have not formulated a detailed code of morals in the way that Christians have.  This may be true. Out of the 25 I would think very few of them would even think it their responsibility to develop such a code. On the other hand, religions tend to spawn moral codes – often contradictory and sometimes enforced violently. Having a detailed moral code does not seem to have prevented large and important disagreements among the religious generally and Christians in particular – whether it be pacifism, homosexuality, abortion, contraception or slavery.  In my opinion Singer’s problem is that he has got obsessed with extending his moral feelings into principles and this has lead to absurd conclusions – as such codes tend to do.  On the whole I see little benefit to such codes and a lot of danger.  If the only problem that arises is that people cannot decide which is the worse sin – killing a new born baby or an adult – then I don’t think we have much to worry about.  If the conclusion was that it is not wrong to kill a new born baby that would be different.markf
January 28, 2011
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markf In response to your query: no, I do not regard the abortion of a baby close to birth as a lesser sin than killing a new born baby. However, I do not regard the dilemma you propose as a helpful one. You ask us to consider the case of a childbirth in which the doctor has to choose between the death of the baby or the death of the mother. You then wager (correctly, I think) that the majority of people would say: "Save the mother." I'd like to make four comments here. First, saving the mother is quite a different thing, conceptually, from killing the baby. The fact that most people, in this situation, think that the doctor should save the mother first does not necessarily imply that they think the doctor should kill the child in order to do so (e.g. by crushing its skull, as in craniotomy). People tend to balk when you put it to them like that - as they should. Sometimes, however, a life-saving action can have indirect, unintended side-effects; hence, saving the mother may unintentionally result in the death of the unborn child. That's not killing. Second, there are all sorts of reasons why people might feel inclined to save the mother's life first, in the case you propose, even if they think that an unborn baby's life is just as valuable as its mother's. To begin with, people commonly envisage the unborn child as a little guest in its mother's womb, and they then reason that a guest's right to assistance in an emergency cannot take precedence over the host's prior right to receive assistance. They would therefore argue: "Save the mother first." (I'm just describing here what many people think.) On top of that, people commonly argue that the mother will almost certainly have a husband and maybe one or more children as well, all of whom will be sadly bereaved if she dies. Applying the host-guest analogy again, they reason that the mother has obligations to existing family members to put her life first, if an unavoidable conflict of interests arises. Third, if you want to get a sense of how people view the status of the unborn child, it would be better to ask what they think is the appropriate punishment for a murderer who shoots an eight-months-pregnant woman in the abdomen, with the aim of killing her unborn child, and then ask them what they think is the appropriate penalty for a murderer who kills a newborn baby. I can't think of any good reason why the penalty should be different in the two cases. I think this is a much fairer kind of question, as it avoids messy mother-versus-child medical dilemmas and focuses on the relevant issue, which is the relative value of an unborn child's life and a newborn baby's life. Fourth, I don't for a moment pretend that people's moral intuitions regarding the unborn child are fully thought-out or totally consistent. Often it's a case of "Out of sight, out of mind," and additionally, many people's knowledge of fetal development is poor. Newborn babies, on the other hand, are highly visible and quite familiar to us; hence I'd expect people's moral intuitions to be sharper and much more consistent. Regarding my point against atheism: the point I wish to make is that Jews and Christians have an organized corpus of writings on ethical matters, in which the underlying moral principles have been spelled out in some detail and applied in a fairly rigorous fashion to a wide variety of practical situations. Atheists, by comparison, are all at sea. I doubt whether even one of them has enunciated his/her moral principles with the same rigor and in-depth analysis as, say, Professor John Finnis or Professor Germain Grisez, to name a couple of moral thinkers whose work I am fairly familiar with. Few of these atheist thinkers have even come up with a simple list of basic moral principles. You mention utilitarianism as an alternative school of thought, which could adjudicate cases like the question I posed in my post. But by far the most well-thought-out work by any modern-day utilitarian philosophers is that of Professor Peter Singer, whose writings have reached millions. Singer is quite rigorous in his ethical reasoning, and I respect him for that, despite my profound disagreement with his opinions. It is in his metaphysics that he comes undone, as I will attempt to show in my next post, where I address his faulty arguments against the humanity of the unborn child. Here, Singer's lack of rigor is apparent. Even worse, while Singer's code of ethics answers the questions I posed in my post, it gives answers that are completely different to what ordinary people think. According to Singer, newborn babies are not persons at all. The overwhelming majority of people would regard such a view as morally odious. You then argue that the following three questions are non-equivalent: 1. Do you believe babies have the same moral worth as adults? 2. Do you believe that killing a newborn baby is just as wrong as killing an adult? 3. Are you more upset about the death of a baby or the death of an adult? I never asked question 3, so I shall put it to one side and focus on 1 and 2. In Judeo-Christian moral thinking, each human life is regarded as having an equal and infinite value. Hence babies matter just as much as adults do. That's not vague. And if that's the case, killing a baby is just as bad as killing an adult. Thus question 1 answers question 2. Regarding disagreements among Christian moral philosophers: I think StephenB has done an admirable job of explaining how these have arisen, historically speaking. These differences seldom relate to intrinsic evils, or actions that are wrong for all people, at all times, in all contexts, and in all places. Instead, they typically relate to situations where an evil might be seen as excusable [a lesser evil than the alternatives], under particular circumstances. Ethical disagreements between Christians may also relate to how an abstract universal moral principle applies to these particular circumstances. But disagreements about fundamental principles themselves are inconceivable, within the Christian tradition. I hope this answers most of your questions.vjtorley
January 28, 2011
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The point I wished to make was simply that the right to life is surely the most fundamental right of all, and that no Christian leader has ever asserted that some people have more of a right to life than others, on account of their race or station in life.
Really? How about the pope's position on abortion? It gives the unborn baby (which the Catholic Church views as a person) more of a right to live than the mother.Heinrich
January 28, 2011
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#65 vj You have moved your objection from "Atheists disagree over a fundamental matter therefore their moral code is faulty" to "Atheists have not described a moral code adequately". I am not sure what moral codes these various atheists use but they have a lot of respectable options which do not require a God including various forms of utilitarianism, the golden rule, Kantian categorical imperative and Aristotelian eudaimonia. Or they may follow Hume (as I do) and believe that moral codes are descriptive of our passions rather than prescriptive. Each of these might lead to a different conclusion about whether to save the baby or the mother. In addition each of these might be interpreted differently in making this particularly difficult decision - just as it is possible to interpret Judeo-Christian ethics differently in difficult situations. I am surprised that you give babies just about to be born a different status from babies who have just been born. Presumably that means you think that abortion of a baby close to birth is a lesser sin than killing a new born baby? In the fire situation 99 times out of 100 there would be a decisive factor - which one was most likely to survive - the mother insisting the baby be saved first etc. If there were literally nothing to choose other than the age of the two humans then I am not at all sure which way people would vote - it doesn't seem at all obvious. Have you any evidence?markf
January 27, 2011
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#64 Stephenb A few years ago in the UK the rail services equipped themselves for snow fall but were still chaotic when snow fell. Their excuse was that it was the wrong kind of snow and this has become a standing joke. I can't help having similar feelings about the wrong kind of slavery.markf
January 27, 2011
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Onlookers: SB has made some highly significant moral distinctions that point to situations where an evil can be seen as excusable [lesser than the alternatives], under particular circumstances. Wikipedia's moderators, however, on many ideologically charged subjects, will not allow the sort of corrective above to stand for any length of time. (E.g. At least one conservative journalist had to threaten lawsuit in order to get utterly unfounded accusations from being continually restored to his Wiki biography, and even so, they stand in the "history" tabs of the article. The same holds for design thoery topics and biographies.) Sadly, Wikipedia -- despite its declarations about a neutral point of view -- is too often untrustworthy on ideologically loaded topics. The best that can be said for it on such, is that it sets the 101-level threshold of evolutionary materialistic, somewhat trendy leftish [and too often sophomoric] conventional wisdom that one must be aware of and surpass. A pity, really. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
January 27, 2011
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markf Hi. Just time for a quick reply now. You write:
...it does not follow that because leading atheists disagree they are following a deficient ethical code. Among other things there is no reason to assume they all have the same ethical code.
Quite so; but I'd like to see just one well thought-out code produced by one of these leading atheists. The Judeo-Christian ethic is a pretty coherent one, which has led to a fairly well-defined body of work on the natural law. One thing on which all Jews and Christians agree is that the value of each and every human life is equal and infinite (in the sense that it cannot be measured in monetary or quantitative terms). That's a basic point of agreement. Regarding your dilemma about saving the baby: this post is about newborn babies, not unborn babies. (I'll discuss them in my next post.) If there were a fire in a house, and a mother and her newborn baby were trapped inside, and there were only time to save one of them, I believe nearly everyone would say: save the baby first.vjtorley
January 27, 2011
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--mark: "#58 StephenB – I think you are right. We have different authorities. Why don’t you correct the Wikipedia article if it is wrong?" Among other things, they simply do not make the necessary intellectual distinctions. Let me try to outline the issue in the simplest way I know how. INTRINSIC EVIL = actions that are wrong for all people, at all times, in all contexts, and in all places. Example: Abortion, Unjust Slavery (Chattel Slavery), Usury (Unjustified and unduly high interest rates). Relevant Point: Both Christianity and The United States Constitution forbid Chattel Slavery. CONDITIONAL EVIL = actions that are often or usually wrong, but can, nevertheless, be justified under certain conditions. Example: Capital Punishment, Just Title Servitude, POW servitude, high interest rates. Relevant Point: Both Christianity and The United States Constitution frown on, but have sometimes allowed for, Just Title Servitude. DEVELOPMENT OF DOCTRINE = a change in the conditions that may influence the way we look at a conditional evil. Example: While the Catholic Church still recognizes that Capital Punishment is not, like abortion, inherently evil, the conditions which once justified the practice no longer seem to exist, thought they may become relevant at a future time. This teaching is changeable or reformable. Similarly, whether or not interest rates are too high depend on a number of circumstances, but unduly high interest rates are never justified. Now let’s look at the relevant timelines and apply the appropriate terms: 1435: Pope Eugene IV condemns INHERENT EVIL in the form of unjust slavery. Relevant Point: His condemnation applies to everyone, even those who may have no involvement in with the Canary Islands. We know this by virtue of his qualifying words, “other various illicit and evil deeds. So he is speaking to the universal church, not just a few Catholics. Because, he is ruling on the INTRINSIC EVIL of Chattel slavery as the final word, his teaching is unchangeable and irreformable. It has nothing at all to do with conditions. 1452: Pope Nicholas V issues a Papal Bull allowing for just slavery (POW slavery). Relevant Point: Because this writing occurs after that of Eugene IV, it must be understood in that context and must also reflect the already established teaching that Chattel slavery is always wrong. The former teaching is binding. Therefore, Pope Nicholas is not, nor can he, “undo” Pope Eugene’s teaching. What, then, is he doing? He is ruling on, or allowing for, a different kind of servitude-- a CONDITIONAL EVIL, which means that under any other circumstances, it could not be allowed. This teaching is reformable and changeable. Like Capital Punishment, the conditions that could justify it can exist at certain times and not exist at other times. Other Papal Bulls followed his lead for as long as necessary. In 1537, Pope Paul III issued another Bull against slavery, entitled Sublimis Deus, to the universal Church. In this, he was, once again ruling on the INTRINSIC EVIL of unjust slavery. He was not “undoing” the Papal Bulls which allowed for POW servitude, which referred to another species. Like previous Popes, he understood the difference between intrinsic evil and conditional evil. Pope Paul not only condemned the slavery of Indians but also "all other peoples." In his phrase "unheard of before now", he acknowledges the difference between this new form of slavery (i.e. racial slavery) and the ancient forms of just-title slavery. DEVELOPMENT OF DOCTRINE: The Church seems to have taken a stronger stand against “just slavery” in recent centuries, but it has not, nor will it ever declare it to be an intrinsic evil. Final Point: The Catholic Church has not ever, nor will it ever, change its teachings on the intrinsic evil of unjust slavery.StephenB
January 27, 2011
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#58 StephenB - I think you are right. We have different authorities. Why don't you correct the Wikipedia article if it is wrong? #59 Vivid - I think my response to vj may answer your comment.markf
January 27, 2011
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vj #57 Your comment is as always polite and well written.  My problem is I disagree with so much of it I don’t know where to start!  This is a horrendously long reply – but I don’t have time to shorten it. I don’t think we all need an ethical code to live by.  But I have argued this many times before and there is little point in arguing it again.  My main point was not to have a debate about metaethics.  It was simply to debate the much more humble item of the argument in this paragraph.  
Babies are hardly abnormal – most of us see them every day. It is astonishing, then, that the world’s most influential atheists cannot even agree on the question of whether babies matter as much as the rest of us do – something which is blindingly obvious to the community at large. The inability of modern atheists to agree on such a simple question should tell us that their ethics is, at best, a work-in-progress.
  Even here I disagree on at least three things. 1) The question on which atheists were undecided was: Do you believe that killing a newborn baby is just as wrong as killing an adult? (This not the same as the rather vague question: Do you believe babies have the same moral worth as adults? and it is not the same as are you more upset about the death of a baby or the death of an adult? which you answered in an earlier comment)  I don’t find the answer blindingly obvious. Nor do I find it particularly important or revealing.  As I said in an earlier comment it is a question that almost never arises in practice as far as I know.  The closest we come to it is the dilemma occasionally faced in childbirth where the doctor has to choose between the death of the baby or the death of the mother.  I would wager the majority of people would say “save the mother” (look here for a small unrandom sample).  It is certainly not blindingly obvious.   2) Even if this were an important ethical question to which the answer is blindingly obvious it does not follow that because leading atheists disagree they are following a deficient ethical code. Among other things there is no reason to assume they all have the same ethical code. All they have in common is they don’t believe in God. Some may have a very consistent, strong, ethical code; while others have a different one or no code at all.  Their disagreement on a specific outcome no more demonstrates a problem with all their individual codes than the disagreement between Muslim and Catholic codes shows that both of these codes are at fault.   3) And to reiterate my initial point.  Christian leaders have disagreed about equal rights to liberty for all men, and because of that equal rights to life.  If you don’t count this as showing the Christian code as deficient why do you count a similar disagreement as showing an atheist ethical code as deficient?  (Reiterating your concerns about atheist ethical codes does not answer this question).  
Finally, I think you were quite right to highlight injustices condoned by past Popes in connection with slavery, even if many other Popes attempted to combat the slave trade. But when you read here(warning: the passages in the attached link make forvery unpleasant reading) of how the Enlightenment philosophers regarded the people of Africa, I think you’ll agree that the doctrines of Judaism and Christianity played a major role in finally putting a stop to racism, which would probably still be with us if the Enlightenment had destroyed the Church in the 18th century.
I agree and have said nothing to suggest I don’t agree throughout this discussion.  I don’t know why people keep on telling me what a good job Christians have done on racism and slavery when I keep on agreeing!  I would point out that Darwin was very closely associated with the Christian anti-slavery movement.markf
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