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	<title>Comments on: The Collapse of Ken Miller</title>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-104339</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>An interesting summarization of various responses to Ken Miller:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/03/a_list_of_selected_responses_t.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting summarization of various responses to Ken Miller:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/03/a_list_of_selected_responses_t.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....ses_t.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: mike1962</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-103284</link>
		<dc:creator>mike1962</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Ken Miller is a jackass&quot;

Hmm, I didn&#039;t write that. Although it is apparent that someone sharing or spoofing my IP did.

&quot;Petron and Guinness&quot;

I drink neither.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ken Miller is a jackass&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmm, I didn&#8217;t write that. Although it is apparent that someone sharing or spoofing my IP did.</p>
<p>&#8220;Petron and Guinness&#8221;</p>
<p>I drink neither.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-103062</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>When nucleotide sequences can be shuffled and dealt at random and still sustain a viable organism, Dr Miller will have a point.

IOW as Stephen Meyers, Wm Dembski, et al., have been saying for years- not any DNA sequence will do.

And we know that chemically speaking, any DNA sequence is just as likely as any other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When nucleotide sequences can be shuffled and dealt at random and still sustain a viable organism, Dr Miller will have a point.</p>
<p>IOW as Stephen Meyers, Wm Dembski, et al., have been saying for years- not any DNA sequence will do.</p>
<p>And we know that chemically speaking, any DNA sequence is just as likely as any other.</p>
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		<title>By: mike1962</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-102846</link>
		<dc:creator>mike1962</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 05:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Please pass the Petron and Guinness. 

Oh thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please pass the Petron and Guinness. </p>
<p>Oh thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: mike1962</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-102845</link>
		<dc:creator>mike1962</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 05:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ken Miller is a jackass - COME ON! - let&#039;s get real - these egghead morons are not worthy of the sweart off our collected nuggets - and I think they know it - don&#039;t slack up on the fight, they are arguing as stupid idiots and they know it - fight fight fight

Amen (in my drunken stupor)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken Miller is a jackass &#8211; COME ON! &#8211; let&#8217;s get real &#8211; these egghead morons are not worthy of the sweart off our collected nuggets &#8211; and I think they know it &#8211; don&#8217;t slack up on the fight, they are arguing as stupid idiots and they know it &#8211; fight fight fight</p>
<p>Amen (in my drunken stupor)</p>
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		<title>By: Apollos</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-102755</link>
		<dc:creator>Apollos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Mar 2007 02:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Collin, 

I responded to your comments this morning but I think I may have been spam-filtered for too many cards references (or Lebowski references). Perhaps I&#039;ll re-word and repost if it doesn&#039;t show up by tomorrow.

I could also have been moderated for my post&#039;s inanity -- I&#039;m definitely not on the strong side of the brain trust in this environment.

Still, I&#039;ll continue to post on occasion...on the off-chance that I might periodically come up with something mildly interesting. :&#039;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Collin, </p>
<p>I responded to your comments this morning but I think I may have been spam-filtered for too many cards references (or Lebowski references). Perhaps I&#8217;ll re-word and repost if it doesn&#8217;t show up by tomorrow.</p>
<p>I could also have been moderated for my post&#8217;s inanity &#8212; I&#8217;m definitely not on the strong side of the brain trust in this environment.</p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;ll continue to post on occasion&#8230;on the off-chance that I might periodically come up with something mildly interesting. :&#8217;)</p>
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		<title>By: JGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-102704</link>
		<dc:creator>JGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 19:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/#comment-102704</guid>
		<description>Maybe...

Ken Miller was watching too much Oprah Winfrey, and went out of his way to buy that new age religious philosophy &amp; pop psychology film &quot;The Secret&quot; on DVD - that Orprah&#039;s promoting. After watching it, he now thinks he can alter space and time with &quot;positive thinking&quot;. So, this denial of reality he has, is his actually his attempt to think &quot;positive&quot; and emit &quot;vibrations&quot; into the cosmos to &quot;attract&quot; a universe where Dembski is the loser and he is the winner... and the invisble pink flying wingless hydra unicorns exist only to torment ID-ist (don&#039;t ask.. I&#039;m sleep deprived).

As you can probably sense, I hate that film.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe&#8230;</p>
<p>Ken Miller was watching too much Oprah Winfrey, and went out of his way to buy that new age religious philosophy &amp; pop psychology film &#8220;The Secret&#8221; on DVD &#8211; that Orprah&#8217;s promoting. After watching it, he now thinks he can alter space and time with &#8220;positive thinking&#8221;. So, this denial of reality he has, is his actually his attempt to think &#8220;positive&#8221; and emit &#8220;vibrations&#8221; into the cosmos to &#8220;attract&#8221; a universe where Dembski is the loser and he is the winner&#8230; and the invisble pink flying wingless hydra unicorns exist only to torment ID-ist (don&#8217;t ask.. I&#8217;m sleep deprived).</p>
<p>As you can probably sense, I hate that film.</p>
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		<title>By: Apollos</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-102702</link>
		<dc:creator>Apollos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Collin,

Any sufficiently unlikely pattern will do I think; that&#039;s why I threw in the hand of prime numbers. They are not part of the &#039;poker&#039; pattern, yet they conform to a meaningful arrangement. 

Although I&#039;m certain that the hand-of-cards analogy is not without its flaws, my example served to represent Dembski&#039;s specifed complexity far better than Ken Miller&#039;s, which was intended to dismiss the concept altogether. Complex specified information, in my jejune understanding of it, requires not only sufficiently unlikely arrangements, they must also conform to a pattern that includes specificity. 

The irony is that in regards to the intelligent design of biological systems, we did indeed create the pattern before it was discovered, so-to-speak. Many of the components of the bacterial flagellum had parallels to our own designs -- before we knew what the flagellum looked like. Frankly, this is amazing to me. We can observe that the flagellum is a motor. We (the royal we) invented motors well before their discovery in single-celled organisms.

Had motors (or similar systems) not been invented at the discovery of the bacterial flagellum, we would still be able to recognize it as a propulsion system, and would be using it as the basis for some of our own technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Collin,</p>
<p>Any sufficiently unlikely pattern will do I think; that&#8217;s why I threw in the hand of prime numbers. They are not part of the &#8216;poker&#8217; pattern, yet they conform to a meaningful arrangement. </p>
<p>Although I&#8217;m certain that the hand-of-cards analogy is not without its flaws, my example served to represent Dembski&#8217;s specifed complexity far better than Ken Miller&#8217;s, which was intended to dismiss the concept altogether. Complex specified information, in my jejune understanding of it, requires not only sufficiently unlikely arrangements, they must also conform to a pattern that includes specificity. </p>
<p>The irony is that in regards to the intelligent design of biological systems, we did indeed create the pattern before it was discovered, so-to-speak. Many of the components of the bacterial flagellum had parallels to our own designs &#8212; before we knew what the flagellum looked like. Frankly, this is amazing to me. We can observe that the flagellum is a motor. We (the royal we) invented motors well before their discovery in single-celled organisms.</p>
<p>Had motors (or similar systems) not been invented at the discovery of the bacterial flagellum, we would still be able to recognize it as a propulsion system, and would be using it as the basis for some of our own technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Collin</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-102698</link>
		<dc:creator>Collin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Apollos,
I think your analogy is not quite good enough because you know the full house or flush pattern before it happens. Did we know the pattern of life and then discover it? Otherwise you have a case of dropping the flag and then marking the spots and calling it design right? It seems to me you have to know or even create the pattern first and then discover it to infer design in the cards analogy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apollos,<br />
I think your analogy is not quite good enough because you know the full house or flush pattern before it happens. Did we know the pattern of life and then discover it? Otherwise you have a case of dropping the flag and then marking the spots and calling it design right? It seems to me you have to know or even create the pattern first and then discover it to infer design in the cards analogy.</p>
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		<title>By: Miller Misrepresents Dembski - Telic Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/comment-page-1/#comment-102696</link>
		<dc:creator>Miller Misrepresents Dembski - Telic Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-collapse-of-ken-miller/#comment-102696</guid>
		<description>[...] IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve been busy lately, so I spent some time this morning catching up on some blog reading. Over at Uncommon Descent, Dembski catches Miller in an act of blatant misrepresentation. It is this type of misrepresentation which makes me truly wonder if Miller even understands DembskiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s arguments. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve been busy lately, so I spent some time this morning catching up on some blog reading. Over at Uncommon Descent, Dembski catches Miller in an act of blatant misrepresentation. It is this type of misrepresentation which makes me truly wonder if Miller even understands DembskiÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s arguments. [...]</p>
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