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	<title>Comments on: Take This Survey: If SETI found ET, would that destroy your faith?</title>
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		<title>By: kairosfocus</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288859</link>
		<dc:creator>kairosfocus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 08:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>DS:

I like worm holes, actually . . . [cf Weber&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorverse&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Honorverse&lt;/a&gt; etc; and yes I am aware of the subtler side; the use of Sci Fi to advance socio-cultural and worldview agendas, as in the link from Star Wars to the new age movement. &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;That has always been so&lt;/a&gt; . . . ]

Maybe, just maybe, on track record, our knowledge base will be opened up again and we will find ways to move about the seas of quasi-infinity in our cosmos?

On track record of the impacts of opening up navigation ~ 500 years ago, the transforming effects would be well worth the devotion of resources to explore. (Think of the failure of China after &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cheng Ho&lt;/a&gt; to continue with wide-ocean navigation and its implications. Do we want to spend the next few millennia going through the interstellar equivalent of the history of China over the past 500 years? On history, far better to be the discoverer than the discover-ee -- only, let us avoid the inexcusable [adn of course Biblically unjustifiable . . .) slaughter and/or enslavement of the indigenous peoples that so shames our civilisation to this day.)

But, would finding Kzinti or the like out there etc destroy my faith? 

ANS: Why should it? [Especially with a Bible that from Genesis on is replete with interesting hints at more than just us in the cosmos! (E.g. Who were the sons of God who married the daughters of men, siring the mighty men of renown in Genesis . . .?)]

GEM of TKI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DS:</p>
<p>I like worm holes, actually . . . [cf Weber's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorverse" rel="nofollow">Honorverse</a> etc; and yes I am aware of the subtler side; the use of Sci Fi to advance socio-cultural and worldview agendas, as in the link from Star Wars to the new age movement. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia" rel="nofollow">That has always been so</a> . . . ]</p>
<p>Maybe, just maybe, on track record, our knowledge base will be opened up again and we will find ways to move about the seas of quasi-infinity in our cosmos?</p>
<p>On track record of the impacts of opening up navigation ~ 500 years ago, the transforming effects would be well worth the devotion of resources to explore. (Think of the failure of China after <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He" rel="nofollow">Cheng Ho</a> to continue with wide-ocean navigation and its implications. Do we want to spend the next few millennia going through the interstellar equivalent of the history of China over the past 500 years? On history, far better to be the discoverer than the discover-ee &#8212; only, let us avoid the inexcusable [adn of course Biblically unjustifiable . . .) slaughter and/or enslavement of the indigenous peoples that so shames our civilisation to this day.)</p>
<p>But, would finding Kzinti or the like out there etc destroy my faith? </p>
<p>ANS: Why should it? [Especially with a Bible that from Genesis on is replete with interesting hints at more than just us in the cosmos! (E.g. Who were the sons of God who married the daughters of men, siring the mighty men of renown in Genesis . . .?)]</p>
<p>GEM of TKI</p>
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		<title>By: Graceout</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288841</link>
		<dc:creator>Graceout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 20:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If by aliens one means, &quot;Really strange creatures not from this planet&quot;, then the Bible has several examples in Ezekiel and Revelation.

From a Christian perspective, alien life on another planet is certainly not a problem; but either they are not &quot;fallen&quot; (have no sin nature and no need of salvation) or no eternal soul, and also, no need of salvation.

Since God took the form of a human (Jesus) and has chosen to retain that form for all eternity, then he can only represent the human race as our propitiation or substitutionary atonement.

Perelandria (Book II of C.S. Lewis&#039; SciFi triolgy) deals with this.

Alien Life??? Anything is possible is a created universe.  However, human uniqueness, with a soul made in the image of God is still an absolute.  (From a Christian perspective.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If by aliens one means, &#8220;Really strange creatures not from this planet&#8221;, then the Bible has several examples in Ezekiel and Revelation.</p>
<p>From a Christian perspective, alien life on another planet is certainly not a problem; but either they are not &#8220;fallen&#8221; (have no sin nature and no need of salvation) or no eternal soul, and also, no need of salvation.</p>
<p>Since God took the form of a human (Jesus) and has chosen to retain that form for all eternity, then he can only represent the human race as our propitiation or substitutionary atonement.</p>
<p>Perelandria (Book II of C.S. Lewis&#8217; SciFi triolgy) deals with this.</p>
<p>Alien Life??? Anything is possible is a created universe.  However, human uniqueness, with a soul made in the image of God is still an absolute.  (From a Christian perspective.)</p>
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		<title>By: utidjian</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288780</link>
		<dc:creator>utidjian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 18:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>gleaner,

There are other problems with interstellar travel. One of the major ones is the energy required to accelerate a vessel to near light speeds. The requirements using current known methods are staggering (to say the least.) You might want to read up on it at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel

Another problem is that even traveling at near light speeds with the time dilation &quot;helping&quot; the travellers. Depending on the &quot;real time&quot; length of the trip they might return after a few years to find that everyone and everything they knew is long gone. They will be, essentially, traveling into the future.

You can do most of the calculations yourself with nothing more than high school algebra and an introductory physics text. Almost all of them discuss relativity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gleaner,</p>
<p>There are other problems with interstellar travel. One of the major ones is the energy required to accelerate a vessel to near light speeds. The requirements using current known methods are staggering (to say the least.) You might want to read up on it at:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel</a></p>
<p>Another problem is that even traveling at near light speeds with the time dilation &#8220;helping&#8221; the travellers. Depending on the &#8220;real time&#8221; length of the trip they might return after a few years to find that everyone and everything they knew is long gone. They will be, essentially, traveling into the future.</p>
<p>You can do most of the calculations yourself with nothing more than high school algebra and an introductory physics text. Almost all of them discuss relativity.</p>
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		<title>By: MaxAug</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288754</link>
		<dc:creator>MaxAug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 14:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Answers in Genny has a short and straight to the point article on the issue of aliens vs Christianity:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/05/16/vatican-astronomer-et

I dont know whats the big surprise. Romanists believe in the councils, not in the Bible (PS: You guys are americans, you dont know what REAL Romanism is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answers in Genny has a short and straight to the point article on the issue of aliens vs Christianity:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/05/16/vatican-astronomer-et" rel="nofollow">http://www.answersingenesis.or.....ronomer-et</a></p>
<p>I dont know whats the big surprise. Romanists believe in the councils, not in the Bible (PS: You guys are americans, you dont know what REAL Romanism is).</p>
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		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288732</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 05:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>gleaner

It&#039;s possible to accelerate matter to significant fractions of C (light speed) between stars.  Time dilation is already proven (trust me).  This is pretty much the limits of the possible.  There is a causally connected universe and it&#039;s limited (as far as we know) by light speed.  Don&#039;t believe everything you see on Star Trek (faster than light or FTL). :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gleaner</p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible to accelerate matter to significant fractions of C (light speed) between stars.  Time dilation is already proven (trust me).  This is pretty much the limits of the possible.  There is a causally connected universe and it&#8217;s limited (as far as we know) by light speed.  Don&#8217;t believe everything you see on Star Trek (faster than light or FTL). <img src='http://www.uncommondescent.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: gleaner63</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288722</link>
		<dc:creator>gleaner63</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 02:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi,

    I know the boards kind of slow tonight, but ETs interest me more than gay marriages.  So can I please get a ruling on the interstellar-distances-as barrier to ET visitations theory?  Anyone?  Anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>    I know the boards kind of slow tonight, but ETs interest me more than gay marriages.  So can I please get a ruling on the interstellar-distances-as barrier to ET visitations theory?  Anyone?  Anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: gleaner63</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288716</link>
		<dc:creator>gleaner63</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 23:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>From &quot;Unconventional Flying Objects&quot; by Paul Hill:

&quot;[Eugene) Sanger&#039;s scientific critics nearly crucified him on two points.  One for his statement that, when an interstellar vehicle accelerates at 1g for over a years time and the on board integrating accelerometer (a type of speedometer which multiplies accleration by time) reads a velocity greater than light speed, in the on board reference frame the reading is correct.  The other thing was Sanger&#039;s calculations than an interstellar vehicle acclerating and deaccelerating at 1g (for maximum passnger comfort) could cross the known universe, stopping at the most distant galaxy in less than fifty years in passenger or occupant time.  Somebody was wrong.  I always thought it was the critics&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From &#8220;Unconventional Flying Objects&#8221; by Paul Hill:</p>
<p>&#8220;[Eugene) Sanger&#8217;s scientific critics nearly crucified him on two points.  One for his statement that, when an interstellar vehicle accelerates at 1g for over a years time and the on board integrating accelerometer (a type of speedometer which multiplies accleration by time) reads a velocity greater than light speed, in the on board reference frame the reading is correct.  The other thing was Sanger&#8217;s calculations than an interstellar vehicle acclerating and deaccelerating at 1g (for maximum passnger comfort) could cross the known universe, stopping at the most distant galaxy in less than fifty years in passenger or occupant time.  Somebody was wrong.  I always thought it was the critics&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288715</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 23:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>An extraterrestial is a being outside of the realm of Earth.  Those who believe in God, Jesus, angels, and heaven already believe in extraterrestrials...they simply don&#039;t define them as &#039;alien&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An extraterrestial is a being outside of the realm of Earth.  Those who believe in God, Jesus, angels, and heaven already believe in extraterrestrials&#8230;they simply don&#8217;t define them as &#8216;alien&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: gleaner63</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288710</link>
		<dc:creator>gleaner63</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 22:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Fellows,

    Someone correct if I&#039;&#039;m wrong, because I am not a scientist;  when stating that the distances between stars are a barrier to interstellar travel, doesn&#039;t Einstein come into play here?  Although it may be 4.3 light years to the Alpha Centauri triple system, for the crew of a ship reaching 3/4 the speed of light, their travel time would be much less (months) than the *observer* time.  I think this is called &quot;time dilation&quot;.  If true, then distances would be absolutely NO barrier to interstellar travel.  Two excellent books that deal with the subject in some manner are &quot;Unconventional FLying Objects&quot; by Paul Hill, and &quot;Science and Flying Saucers&quot; by Stanton Freidman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fellows,</p>
<p>    Someone correct if I&#8221;m wrong, because I am not a scientist;  when stating that the distances between stars are a barrier to interstellar travel, doesn&#8217;t Einstein come into play here?  Although it may be 4.3 light years to the Alpha Centauri triple system, for the crew of a ship reaching 3/4 the speed of light, their travel time would be much less (months) than the *observer* time.  I think this is called &#8220;time dilation&#8221;.  If true, then distances would be absolutely NO barrier to interstellar travel.  Two excellent books that deal with the subject in some manner are &#8220;Unconventional FLying Objects&#8221; by Paul Hill, and &#8220;Science and Flying Saucers&#8221; by Stanton Freidman.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/take-this-survey-if-seti-found-et-would-that-destroy-your-faith/comment-page-2/#comment-288705</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 21:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Let’s say that, hypothetically, scientists duplicate the evolution of early life in a laboratory in conditions similar to the early Earth. It’s a purely naturalistic process, and it’s readily repeatable.
How would that affect your faith?
How would that affect your position on Intelligent Design?-fsda&lt;/blockquote&gt;

ID would be essentially falsified as living organisms are the ultimate in IC and CSI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Let’s say that, hypothetically, scientists duplicate the evolution of early life in a laboratory in conditions similar to the early Earth. It’s a purely naturalistic process, and it’s readily repeatable.<br />
How would that affect your faith?<br />
How would that affect your position on Intelligent Design?-fsda</p></blockquote>
<p>ID would be essentially falsified as living organisms are the ultimate in IC and CSI.</p>
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