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	<title>Comments on: Skepticism in all the wrong places and for all the wrong reasons</title>
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		<title>By: O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/skepticism-in-all-the-wrong-places-and-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-313710</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=6426#comment-313710</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Seversky, for agreeing with me about the urgent need for reform of Britain&#039;s defamation laws (= both libel and slander). 

They are - as you imply - now used for all sorts of purposes that have nothing to do with the original intent: to compensate living persons for actual harm done to them by demonstrably false statements. 

(= Jane Schmeazle doesn&#039;t get a job washing car windows at a dealership because someone persistently asserts in the media that she is a car thief, but that is untrue/unproven - and the untrue/unproven statements are costing her her livelihood.) 

Concepts, religions, ideas, dead persons, et cetera, should never be causes under any kind of defamation law - because they do not have interests in this world in the specific sense I am describing above.

And no libel law should be constructed in such a way as to prevent vigorous public debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Seversky, for agreeing with me about the urgent need for reform of Britain&#8217;s defamation laws (= both libel and slander). </p>
<p>They are &#8211; as you imply &#8211; now used for all sorts of purposes that have nothing to do with the original intent: to compensate living persons for actual harm done to them by demonstrably false statements. </p>
<p>(= Jane Schmeazle doesn&#8217;t get a job washing car windows at a dealership because someone persistently asserts in the media that she is a car thief, but that is untrue/unproven &#8211; and the untrue/unproven statements are costing her her livelihood.) </p>
<p>Concepts, religions, ideas, dead persons, et cetera, should never be causes under any kind of defamation law &#8211; because they do not have interests in this world in the specific sense I am describing above.</p>
<p>And no libel law should be constructed in such a way as to prevent vigorous public debate.</p>
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		<title>By: O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/skepticism-in-all-the-wrong-places-and-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-313688</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=6426#comment-313688</guid>
		<description>David Kellogg; Most journalists would not do a story on a single phone call or letter, unless the  person in question is very important in some way. 

But if a person, for whatever reason, persistently misrepresents himself - the only point I am trying to make is that the journalist should be able to rely on the legal defense of honest mistake. 

If you wish to say something about this site, why not go ahead and do so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Kellogg; Most journalists would not do a story on a single phone call or letter, unless the  person in question is very important in some way. </p>
<p>But if a person, for whatever reason, persistently misrepresents himself &#8211; the only point I am trying to make is that the journalist should be able to rely on the legal defense of honest mistake. </p>
<p>If you wish to say something about this site, why not go ahead and do so?</p>
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		<title>By: O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/skepticism-in-all-the-wrong-places-and-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-313674</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=6426#comment-313674</guid>
		<description>David Kellogg does not sound like he has ever had to deal with a news deadline or with people who persistently misrepresent/undeerrepresent/overrepresent themselves - or are just plain confused and have no idea what information would be useful or how to convey it, or what difference the information would make. 

Phoning them is the usual procedure - but it may not necessarily help.

Anyway, the question of honest mistake is certainly discussable. I only offer it because I can see how, under certain circumstances, it may properly be offered as a defense to a libel action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Kellogg does not sound like he has ever had to deal with a news deadline or with people who persistently misrepresent/undeerrepresent/overrepresent themselves &#8211; or are just plain confused and have no idea what information would be useful or how to convey it, or what difference the information would make. </p>
<p>Phoning them is the usual procedure &#8211; but it may not necessarily help.</p>
<p>Anyway, the question of honest mistake is certainly discussable. I only offer it because I can see how, under certain circumstances, it may properly be offered as a defense to a libel action.</p>
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		<title>By: David Kellogg</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/skepticism-in-all-the-wrong-places-and-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-313667</link>
		<dc:creator>David Kellogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=6426#comment-313667</guid>
		<description>In (5), the sample case, the journalist should be fired for gross incompetence.  The journalist has a duty to determine if this is the person or not before reporting.  Also, reporting that the person &quot;is now believed to be living in Saskatchewan&quot; is inaccurate.  Believed by whom?  The journalist alone, apparently.  There&#039;s no collective belief by anybody but a journalist who wouldn&#039;t take more effort than call a number in a phone book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In (5), the sample case, the journalist should be fired for gross incompetence.  The journalist has a duty to determine if this is the person or not before reporting.  Also, reporting that the person &#8220;is now believed to be living in Saskatchewan&#8221; is inaccurate.  Believed by whom?  The journalist alone, apparently.  There&#8217;s no collective belief by anybody but a journalist who wouldn&#8217;t take more effort than call a number in a phone book.</p>
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		<title>By: O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/skepticism-in-all-the-wrong-places-and-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-313655</link>
		<dc:creator>O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=6426#comment-313655</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts, Steve.

I wish Le Fanu would issue a statement. Or New Scientist.

I am certainly not the only person who would like to know what is going on here.

I am especially concerned because I am a Free Speech journalist, here in Canada.

I will try to prioritize reading L-F&#039;s book. 

There are a number of new books coming out on the design side, so I can&#039;t help wondering ... is this all just a ruse to reach the top of people&#039;s overloaded In Trays?

Oh, who knows? But if it is not a ruse I&#039;ll thank anyone for trying to find out what is happening.

I agree that Gefter&#039;s conspirazoid ramblings do no credit to New Scientist. But surely  most people solve the problem by just flipping the page. So ... ?

This vaguely reminds me of the situation a few years ago when commenters were writing here to UD to rant about Ann Coulter (an American pundette, sometimes bestselling).

At one point, I responded something like: YOU give her the power, because you listen. Stop listening, and she loses power. Don&#039;t write to me to complain about Coulter if you are listening to her and speaking and writing about her. 

And if you are not listening to Coulter, you don&#039;t actually know what she is saying, so why ... ? 

And if very few people are listening to her, hasn&#039;t the problem you are ranting about solved itself?

It felt sort of like a guy bashing his head against a brick wall and complaining that his head hurts - but he won&#039;t stop. 

And he wants me to help pass a law against brick walls.

Yeah really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts, Steve.</p>
<p>I wish Le Fanu would issue a statement. Or New Scientist.</p>
<p>I am certainly not the only person who would like to know what is going on here.</p>
<p>I am especially concerned because I am a Free Speech journalist, here in Canada.</p>
<p>I will try to prioritize reading L-F&#8217;s book. </p>
<p>There are a number of new books coming out on the design side, so I can&#8217;t help wondering &#8230; is this all just a ruse to reach the top of people&#8217;s overloaded In Trays?</p>
<p>Oh, who knows? But if it is not a ruse I&#8217;ll thank anyone for trying to find out what is happening.</p>
<p>I agree that Gefter&#8217;s conspirazoid ramblings do no credit to New Scientist. But surely  most people solve the problem by just flipping the page. So &#8230; ?</p>
<p>This vaguely reminds me of the situation a few years ago when commenters were writing here to UD to rant about Ann Coulter (an American pundette, sometimes bestselling).</p>
<p>At one point, I responded something like: YOU give her the power, because you listen. Stop listening, and she loses power. Don&#8217;t write to me to complain about Coulter if you are listening to her and speaking and writing about her. </p>
<p>And if you are not listening to Coulter, you don&#8217;t actually know what she is saying, so why &#8230; ? </p>
<p>And if very few people are listening to her, hasn&#8217;t the problem you are ranting about solved itself?</p>
<p>It felt sort of like a guy bashing his head against a brick wall and complaining that his head hurts &#8211; but he won&#8217;t stop. </p>
<p>And he wants me to help pass a law against brick walls.</p>
<p>Yeah really.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Fuller</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/skepticism-in-all-the-wrong-places-and-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-313654</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Fuller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=6426#comment-313654</guid>
		<description>I have risked cyber life and limb to read Gefter’s banned piece. My guess is that it was probably Le Fanu who got it pulled. It’s too bad that it was pulled, not merely for the civil rights reasons but also because it did a very good job – unwittingly – in showing just how philosophically illiterate contemporary Darwinists can be. Her piece is intended as a reader’s guide on how to spot hidden creationist motives in popular science books that do not present themselves as being pro-creationist. The clues are familiar but when they are assembled into a checklist, they will make philosophers cringe. She says stuff like no scientific supporter of evolution would ever call him/herself a ‘Darwinist’. Well, that certainly leaves evolution’s able philosophical supporters like Michael Ruse and Daniel Dennett out in the cold!  She also says that crypto-creationism can be found whenever someone holds Darwin’s theory responsible for the bad things it inspired, as per the Expelled film. I wonder where she stands on the GOOD things that Darwin’s theory inspired – an exercise I’ll leave for the reader…..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have risked cyber life and limb to read Gefter’s banned piece. My guess is that it was probably Le Fanu who got it pulled. It’s too bad that it was pulled, not merely for the civil rights reasons but also because it did a very good job – unwittingly – in showing just how philosophically illiterate contemporary Darwinists can be. Her piece is intended as a reader’s guide on how to spot hidden creationist motives in popular science books that do not present themselves as being pro-creationist. The clues are familiar but when they are assembled into a checklist, they will make philosophers cringe. She says stuff like no scientific supporter of evolution would ever call him/herself a ‘Darwinist’. Well, that certainly leaves evolution’s able philosophical supporters like Michael Ruse and Daniel Dennett out in the cold!  She also says that crypto-creationism can be found whenever someone holds Darwin’s theory responsible for the bad things it inspired, as per the Expelled film. I wonder where she stands on the GOOD things that Darwin’s theory inspired – an exercise I’ll leave for the reader…..</p>
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		<title>By: Seversky</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/skepticism-in-all-the-wrong-places-and-for-all-the-wrong-reasons/comment-page-1/#comment-313652</link>
		<dc:creator>Seversky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=6426#comment-313652</guid>
		<description>I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with both Denyse O&#039;Leary and George Monbiot about the oppressive and scandalously unjust nature of British libel law. It is in urgent need of reform.  The suspicion must be, as Monbiot argued, that it has been allowed to continue as is for so long because it is so useful for protecting the interests of the wealthy and powerful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with both Denyse O&#8217;Leary and George Monbiot about the oppressive and scandalously unjust nature of British libel law. It is in urgent need of reform.  The suspicion must be, as Monbiot argued, that it has been allowed to continue as is for so long because it is so useful for protecting the interests of the wealthy and powerful.</p>
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