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	<title>Comments on: Shallit&#8217;s Chronic Foot-in-Mouth Disease</title>
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		<title>By: Upright BiPed</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-412582</link>
		<dc:creator>Upright BiPed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2011 00:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10076#comment-412582</guid>
		<description>I suppose that answers that question...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose that answers that question&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Upright BiPed</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-412569</link>
		<dc:creator>Upright BiPed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10076#comment-412569</guid>
		<description>or....is this the point (articulating how the physical observations are wrong) where you&#039;ll regress into silence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or&#8230;.is this the point (articulating how the physical observations are wrong) where you&#8217;ll regress into silence?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Upright BiPed</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-412568</link>
		<dc:creator>Upright BiPed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>...and I bet if you are pressed on the issue, you would be able to articulate how they are wrong...is that right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and I bet if you are pressed on the issue, you would be able to articulate how they are wrong&#8230;is that right?</p>
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		<title>By: lastyearon</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-412567</link>
		<dc:creator>lastyearon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No thanks.  I already understand your arguments and concluded that they are wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No thanks.  I already understand your arguments and concluded that they are wrong.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Upright BiPed</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-412565</link>
		<dc:creator>Upright BiPed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10076#comment-412565</guid>
		<description>LYO, you seem to have come unhinged by the observable physical evidence of a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uncommondescent.com/junk-dna/biochemist-larry-moran-responds-to-jonathan-m%e2%80%99s-junk-dna-post/comment-page-1/#comment-403606&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;semiotic state&lt;/a&gt; in protein synthesis. 

If you have a &quot;request for clarity&quot;, the I am all ears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LYO, you seem to have come unhinged by the observable physical evidence of a <a href="http://www.uncommondescent.com/junk-dna/biochemist-larry-moran-responds-to-jonathan-m%e2%80%99s-junk-dna-post/comment-page-1/#comment-403606" rel="nofollow">semiotic state</a> in protein synthesis. </p>
<p>If you have a &#8220;request for clarity&#8221;, the I am all ears.</p>
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		<title>By: lastyearon</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-412562</link>
		<dc:creator>lastyearon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10076#comment-412562</guid>
		<description>All that needs to be done is to prove that Jesus is the son of God.  Information and specified complexity and complex specified information and semiotic and DNA prove that Jesus is the son of God, so you can take all your dumb criticisms, and your stupid requests for clarity and mathematical rigor and just shut-up!  Just shut-up, because Jesus is the son of God!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All that needs to be done is to prove that Jesus is the son of God.  Information and specified complexity and complex specified information and semiotic and DNA prove that Jesus is the son of God, so you can take all your dumb criticisms, and your stupid requests for clarity and mathematical rigor and just shut-up!  Just shut-up, because Jesus is the son of God!</p>
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		<title>By: gpuccio</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-412554</link>
		<dc:creator>gpuccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mark:

Your points are correct. But Abel&#039;s point is that prescriptive information is completely different in form and properties from simple matter configurations that determine results. 

Distinguishing the two main subsets of semiotic information as descriptive and prescriptive is very useful, but I agree with you that in some cases the distinction is not so clear cut. But for DNA, I have no doubts that it is essentially prescriptive information.

Moreover, DNA protein coding genes have all the characteristics of true semitoic prescriptive information: they are symbolic (based on a mapping based on a symbolic code), they are very complex (high dFSCI), they are pseudorandom in form and highly functional in meaning, and they are essentially the result of the functional setting of individual configurable switches (the individual nucleotides in the sequence), whose configuration cannot be detemined by any biochemical laws, but only by functional expectations.

I know what you will say: you will say that the neo darwinian algorithm can explain all those things. As you know, I strongly believe that that is false. We have discussed that many times in detail.

But here I would only want to emphasize that DNA information is, in form and substance, prescriptive information of the best kind. The weak attempts to explain it in a different way can be dealt separately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:</p>
<p>Your points are correct. But Abel&#8217;s point is that prescriptive information is completely different in form and properties from simple matter configurations that determine results. </p>
<p>Distinguishing the two main subsets of semiotic information as descriptive and prescriptive is very useful, but I agree with you that in some cases the distinction is not so clear cut. But for DNA, I have no doubts that it is essentially prescriptive information.</p>
<p>Moreover, DNA protein coding genes have all the characteristics of true semitoic prescriptive information: they are symbolic (based on a mapping based on a symbolic code), they are very complex (high dFSCI), they are pseudorandom in form and highly functional in meaning, and they are essentially the result of the functional setting of individual configurable switches (the individual nucleotides in the sequence), whose configuration cannot be detemined by any biochemical laws, but only by functional expectations.</p>
<p>I know what you will say: you will say that the neo darwinian algorithm can explain all those things. As you know, I strongly believe that that is false. We have discussed that many times in detail.</p>
<p>But here I would only want to emphasize that DNA information is, in form and substance, prescriptive information of the best kind. The weak attempts to explain it in a different way can be dealt separately.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eugene S</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-412537</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10076#comment-412537</guid>
		<description>&quot;Squeezing your instructions down to a minimum does nothing more than assume that the reader is a repository of some required information.&quot;

Yes, indeed. That is a prerequisite of semiotic information processing. The receiver necessarily has some initial tuning, i.e. knowledge of the alphabet, the syntax, some initial vocabulary and the semantics. The receiver already anticipates some information input. E.g. if I say &quot;tree&quot;, this will mean a plant in English but the number 3 in Russian, for example. So context is crucial. And until such times as you resolve possible ambiguities, no semantic information is actually passed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Squeezing your instructions down to a minimum does nothing more than assume that the reader is a repository of some required information.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, indeed. That is a prerequisite of semiotic information processing. The receiver necessarily has some initial tuning, i.e. knowledge of the alphabet, the syntax, some initial vocabulary and the semantics. The receiver already anticipates some information input. E.g. if I say &#8220;tree&#8221;, this will mean a plant in English but the number 3 in Russian, for example. So context is crucial. And until such times as you resolve possible ambiguities, no semantic information is actually passed.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eugene S</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-412536</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10076#comment-412536</guid>
		<description>To be more precise, one first needs to introduce a language with which we can describe an object. Then all essential (desired) properties of the object one wants to measure information about, are cast into strings in that language. Information theory showns it is always possible. Then you measure the length of the shortest string amongst all possible strings that describe the object to the required level of accuracy. BTW, &#039;the shortest&#039; already assumes possible legitimate compression (i.e. compression without loss of information). The length of the shortest string gives us Kolmogorov complexity of information associated with the object. 

In practice, e.g. JPG format achieves a high compression rate without any noticeable image quality loss, so we can accurately enough say that the size of a JPG image file is a good measure of information complexity of the look of the portrayed object(s) with respect to the relevant alphabet (binary understandable by the relevant applications).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be more precise, one first needs to introduce a language with which we can describe an object. Then all essential (desired) properties of the object one wants to measure information about, are cast into strings in that language. Information theory showns it is always possible. Then you measure the length of the shortest string amongst all possible strings that describe the object to the required level of accuracy. BTW, &#8216;the shortest&#8217; already assumes possible legitimate compression (i.e. compression without loss of information). The length of the shortest string gives us Kolmogorov complexity of information associated with the object. </p>
<p>In practice, e.g. JPG format achieves a high compression rate without any noticeable image quality loss, so we can accurately enough say that the size of a JPG image file is a good measure of information complexity of the look of the portrayed object(s) with respect to the relevant alphabet (binary understandable by the relevant applications).</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/shallits-chronic-foot-in-mouth-disease/comment-page-2/#comment-341805</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=10076#comment-341805</guid>
		<description>VC:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The fact that you’ll never be able to arrive at an objective value describing the CSI...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is OK.

Getting an exact number isn&#039;t important when dealing with objects.

All that needs to done is to show what is required to get it accomplished- for example to make the cake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VC:</p>
<blockquote><p>The fact that you’ll never be able to arrive at an objective value describing the CSI&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>That is OK.</p>
<p>Getting an exact number isn&#8217;t important when dealing with objects.</p>
<p>All that needs to done is to show what is required to get it accomplished- for example to make the cake.</p>
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