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	<title>Comments on: Reading list on ID for grad students in philosophy</title>
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		<title>By: DLH</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-73152</link>
		<dc:creator>DLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 14:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Prof. Dembski
Appreciate your philosophical references. Encourage reconsideration of Gitt&#039;s hierarchy of information and information theorems. 

Gitt categorized information into five levels: 
1. Statistics: Symbol frequencies, channel capacity etc. See: Information Entropy, Shannon&#039;s Theory 
2. Syntax: All structural properties of setting up information. 
3. Semantics: Meaning of symbols. 
4. Pragmatics: Actions required by recipient to achieve sender&#039;s purposes. 
5. Apobetics: Sender&#039;s purposes. 
Gitt lists the sx most important of his 32 information theorems as: 
1. There can be no information without a code. 
2. Any code is the result of a free and deliberate convention. 
3. There can be no information without a sender. 
4. Any given chain of information points to a mental source. 
5. There can be no information unless all five hierarchical levels are involved: statistics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, and apobetics. 
6. Information cannot originate in statistical processes.

&lt;a href=&quot;Ã¢â‚¬Âhttp://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/Werner_GittÃ¢â‚¬Â&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Werner Gitt: ResearchID &lt;/a&gt;

These appear to provide guidance for developing top down ID/teological theories (in contrast to materialistic bottom up evolution or ateological theories). Are there any researchers who have seriously grappled with Gitt&#039;s hierarchy and theorems or provided alternatives or publications you can refer to? (Apologies, I have read some but not most of your recommendations.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof. Dembski<br />
Appreciate your philosophical references. Encourage reconsideration of Gitt&#8217;s hierarchy of information and information theorems. </p>
<p>Gitt categorized information into five levels:<br />
1. Statistics: Symbol frequencies, channel capacity etc. See: Information Entropy, Shannon&#8217;s Theory<br />
2. Syntax: All structural properties of setting up information.<br />
3. Semantics: Meaning of symbols.<br />
4. Pragmatics: Actions required by recipient to achieve sender&#8217;s purposes.<br />
5. Apobetics: Sender&#8217;s purposes.<br />
Gitt lists the sx most important of his 32 information theorems as:<br />
1. There can be no information without a code.<br />
2. Any code is the result of a free and deliberate convention.<br />
3. There can be no information without a sender.<br />
4. Any given chain of information points to a mental source.<br />
5. There can be no information unless all five hierarchical levels are involved: statistics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, and apobetics.<br />
6. Information cannot originate in statistical processes.</p>
<p><a href="Ã¢â‚¬Âhttp://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/Werner_GittÃ¢â‚¬Â" rel="nofollow"> Werner Gitt: ResearchID </a></p>
<p>These appear to provide guidance for developing top down ID/teological theories (in contrast to materialistic bottom up evolution or ateological theories). Are there any researchers who have seriously grappled with Gitt&#8217;s hierarchy and theorems or provided alternatives or publications you can refer to? (Apologies, I have read some but not most of your recommendations.)</p>
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		<title>By: kevin_stilley</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-35202</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin_stilley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 20:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Professor Dembski,

What texts will you be using this Fall in the class you are teaching at Southwestern entitled &quot;Christian Faith, Knowledge, Science&quot;.

Thanks,

Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Dembski,</p>
<p>What texts will you be using this Fall in the class you are teaching at Southwestern entitled &#8220;Christian Faith, Knowledge, Science&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Kevin</p>
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		<title>By: the wonderer</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34159</link>
		<dc:creator>the wonderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 12:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I always lead people to a great synopis of design theory found in the ARN archives by Paul Nelson summarizing an early symposium:

http://www.arn.org/docs/orpages/or152/152main.htm#head1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always lead people to a great synopis of design theory found in the ARN archives by Paul Nelson summarizing an early symposium:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.arn.org/docs/orpages/or152/152main.htm#head1" rel="nofollow">http://www.arn.org/docs/orpage......htm#head1</a></p>
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		<title>By: late_model</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34126</link>
		<dc:creator>late_model</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 06:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1107#comment-34126</guid>
		<description>Bill maybe you should add Voltaire to your list.  This is from the Philosphical Dictionary hosted by Hanover.  The section is from Voltaire postulating on athiesm.

Here is the link  http://history.hanover.edu/texts/voltaire/volathe1.html 

We are intelligent beings: intelligent beings cannot have been formed by a crude, blind, insensible being: there is certainly some difference between the ideas of Newton and the dung of a mule. Newton&#039;s intelligence, therefore, came from another intelligence. 

When we see a beautiful machine, we say that there is a good engineer, and that this engineer has excellent judgment. The world is assuredly an admirable machine; therefore there is in the world an admirable intelligence, wherever it may be. This argument is old, and none the worse for that. 

All living bodies are composed of levers, of pulleys, which function according to the laws of mechanics; of liquids which the laws of hydrostatics cause to circulate perpetually; and when one thinks that all these beings have a perception quite unrelated to their organization, one is overwhelmed with surprise. 

The movement of the heavenly bodies, that of our little earth round the sun, all operate by virtue of the most profound mathematical law. How Plato who was not aware of one of these laws, eloquent but visionary Plato, who said that the earth was erected on an equilateral triangle, and the water on a right-angled triangle; strange Plato, who says there can be only five worlds, because there are only five regular bodies: how, I say, did Plato, who did not know even spherical trigonometry, have nevertheless a genius sufficiently fine, an instinct sufficiently happy, to call God the &quot;Eternal Geometer,&quot; to feel the existence of a creative intelligence? Spinoza himself admits it. It is impossible to strive against this truth which surrounds us and which presses on us from all sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill maybe you should add Voltaire to your list.  This is from the Philosphical Dictionary hosted by Hanover.  The section is from Voltaire postulating on athiesm.</p>
<p>Here is the link  <a href="http://history.hanover.edu/texts/voltaire/volathe1.html" rel="nofollow">http://history.hanover.edu/tex.....athe1.html</a> </p>
<p>We are intelligent beings: intelligent beings cannot have been formed by a crude, blind, insensible being: there is certainly some difference between the ideas of Newton and the dung of a mule. Newton&#8217;s intelligence, therefore, came from another intelligence. </p>
<p>When we see a beautiful machine, we say that there is a good engineer, and that this engineer has excellent judgment. The world is assuredly an admirable machine; therefore there is in the world an admirable intelligence, wherever it may be. This argument is old, and none the worse for that. </p>
<p>All living bodies are composed of levers, of pulleys, which function according to the laws of mechanics; of liquids which the laws of hydrostatics cause to circulate perpetually; and when one thinks that all these beings have a perception quite unrelated to their organization, one is overwhelmed with surprise. </p>
<p>The movement of the heavenly bodies, that of our little earth round the sun, all operate by virtue of the most profound mathematical law. How Plato who was not aware of one of these laws, eloquent but visionary Plato, who said that the earth was erected on an equilateral triangle, and the water on a right-angled triangle; strange Plato, who says there can be only five worlds, because there are only five regular bodies: how, I say, did Plato, who did not know even spherical trigonometry, have nevertheless a genius sufficiently fine, an instinct sufficiently happy, to call God the &#8220;Eternal Geometer,&#8221; to feel the existence of a creative intelligence? Spinoza himself admits it. It is impossible to strive against this truth which surrounds us and which presses on us from all sides.</p>
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		<title>By: crandaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34124</link>
		<dc:creator>crandaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 05:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;The fact that a young student should be afraid to openly explore design inference just makes me sick.&quot;

Me too.  Arguments for design are very much alive and well (and considerably more potent than arguments for materialism in my humble opinion).  People who scoff at them and claim that Hume demolished them are either in denial or suffer from some sort of cognitive pathology.

Thanks for the references, Bill.  I, too, will like to look at these.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The fact that a young student should be afraid to openly explore design inference just makes me sick.&#8221;</p>
<p>Me too.  Arguments for design are very much alive and well (and considerably more potent than arguments for materialism in my humble opinion).  People who scoff at them and claim that Hume demolished them are either in denial or suffer from some sort of cognitive pathology.</p>
<p>Thanks for the references, Bill.  I, too, will like to look at these.</p>
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		<title>By: chunkdz</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34086</link>
		<dc:creator>chunkdz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 02:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1107#comment-34086</guid>
		<description>The fact that a young student should be afraid to openly explore design inference just makes me sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that a young student should be afraid to openly explore design inference just makes me sick.</p>
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		<title>By: mmadigan</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34081</link>
		<dc:creator>mmadigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 23:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bill, still pondering that &#039;meme&#039; about the necessity of evil as a necessary conseuence of human choice.
Here&#039;s an early book on non-evolution evidence at    http://home.planet.nl/~gkorthof/korthof77.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, still pondering that &#8216;meme&#8217; about the necessity of evil as a necessary conseuence of human choice.<br />
Here&#8217;s an early book on non-evolution evidence at    <a href="http://home.planet.nl/~gkorthof/korthof77.htm" rel="nofollow">http://home.planet.nl/~gkorthof/korthof77.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: tribune7</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34074</link>
		<dc:creator>tribune7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 19:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blmousetrap.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; The Little Nipper &lt;/a&gt; (Forget to end the first link)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blmousetrap.htm" rel="nofollow"> The Little Nipper </a> (Forget to end the first link)</p>
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		<title>By: tribune7</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34073</link>
		<dc:creator>tribune7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 19:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To see, the rigourous reasoning behind the other side have him check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://udel.edu/%7Emcdonald/mousetrap.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; the page of John H. McDonald at the University of Delaware where he shows in no uncertain terms how the mousetrap could have evolved.

Now, unenlighted types might point out that the mousetrap was designed because James Henry Atkinson patented the &lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blmousetrap.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; &quot;Little Nipper&quot; &lt;/a&gt; back in 1897, but that&#039;s merely stealth Creationism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To see, the rigourous reasoning behind the other side have him check out <a href="http://udel.edu/%7Emcdonald/mousetrap.html" rel="nofollow"> the page of John H. McDonald at the University of Delaware where he shows in no uncertain terms how the mousetrap could have evolved.</p>
<p>Now, unenlighted types might point out that the mousetrap was designed because James Henry Atkinson patented the </a><a href="http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blmousetrap.htm" rel="nofollow"> &#8220;Little Nipper&#8221; </a> back in 1897, but that&#8217;s merely stealth Creationism.</p>
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		<title>By: JosephCCampana</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/reading-list-on-id-for-grad-students-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-34071</link>
		<dc:creator>JosephCCampana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 18:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a service to the ID community, we have created a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/Philosopical_Bibliography_of_ID&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;philosophy bibliography&lt;/a&gt; page at ResearchID.org.

Feel free to add or modify recommendations.

URL:
http://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/Philosopical_Bibliography_of_ID</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a service to the ID community, we have created a <a href="http://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/Philosopical_Bibliography_of_ID" rel="nofollow">philosophy bibliography</a> page at ResearchID.org.</p>
<p>Feel free to add or modify recommendations.</p>
<p>URL:<br />
<a href="http://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/Philosopical_Bibliography_of_ID" rel="nofollow">http://www.researchintelligent.....aphy_of_ID</a></p>
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