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I am reading Atheist Delusions by David Bentley Hart and set forth a lengthy quote below. The topic of this thread will be Hart’s assertions in the last two quoted sentences. Instead of putting everything in the sometimes hard to read block quote format of WordPress, I notify one and all that everything past this sentence is a quote from the book:

Nothing strikes me as more tiresomely vapid than the notion that there is some sort of inherent opposition – or impermeable partition – between faith and reason, or that the modern period is marked by its unique devotion to the latter. One can believe that faith is mere credulous assent to unfounded premises, while reason consists in a pure obedience to empirical fact, only if one is largely ignorant of both. . . .

All reasoning presumes premises or intuitions or ultimate convictions that cannot be proved by any foundations or facts more basic than themselves, and hence there are irreducible convictions present wherever one attempts to apply logic to experience. One always operates within boundaries established by one’s first principles, and asks only the questions that those principles permit. . . .

There is, after all, nothing inherently reasonable in the conviction that all of reality is simply an accidental confluence of physical causes, without any transcendent source or end. Materialism is not a fact of experience or a deduction of logic; it is a metaphysical prejudice, nothing more, and one that is arguably more irrational than almost any other. In general, the unalterably convinced materialist is a kind of childishly complacent fundamentalist, so fervently, unreflectively, and rapturously committed to the materialist vision of reality that if he or she should encounter any problem – logical or experiential – that might call its premises into question, or even merely encounter a limit beyond which those premises lose their explanatory power, he or she is simply unable to recognize it. Richard Dawkins is a perfect example; he does not hesitate, for instance, to claim that ‘natural selection is the ultimate explanation for our existence.’ But this is a silly assertion and merely reveals that Dawkins does not understand the words he is using. The question of existence does not concern how it is that the present arrangement of the world came about, from causes already internal to the world, but how it is that anything (including any cause) can exist at all. This question Darwin and Wallace never addressed, nor were ever so hopelessly confused as to think thy had. It is a question that no theoretical or experimental science could ever answer, for it is qualitatively different from the kind of questions that the physical science are competent to address. Even if theoretical physics should one day discover the most basic laws upon which the fabric of space and time is woven, or evolutionary biology the most elementary phylogenic forms of terrestrial life, or paleontology an utterly seamless genealogy of every species, still we shall not have thereby drawn one inch nearer to a solution of the mystery of existence. . . . Even the simplest of things, and even the most basic of principles, must first of all be, and nothing within the universe of contingent things (nor even the universe itself, even if were somehow ‘eternal’) can be intelligibly conceived of as the source of explanation of its own being.

Comments
jerry wrote:
But Whoever designed the universe has to have an immense intelligence. So whether one wants to call such an intelligence God or not is a semantic question.
That sounds like another assumption. How do you know that intelligence is a prerequisite for the formation of a universe? By analogy, suppose that you are seeing a picture of a snowflake for the very first time. You might conclude that the beautiful and complicated object you were seeing was designed, but in fact it is not, and its formation is ultimately the result of a few simple physical laws. Without knowing in detail the laws (or metalaws) behind universe formation, how can you assert that intelligence is a necessary ingredient in the process?beelzebub
May 4, 2009
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You know, Beelzebub, I’ve been worried about you ever since you fell. One sign of an addled brain is the compulsion to be clever. (They’re always the last to know!) Amazing, isn’t it, that “theists” are somehow able to resist the temptation to respond to your brilliant riposte? One would have thought they would find such a devilish question irresistible. Obviously you do. Fifty posts later, and you still can’t get over it. For Beelzebub, it seems, hell means being ignored by the grown-ups.allanius
May 4, 2009
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"Hart presumably considers the non-contingent ground of being to be the Christian God. This in itself seems to be an unwarranted assumption. Why must existence be underwritten by a god at all, much less the specific personal God of the Christians?" It is doesn't have to be the Christian God. So that settles part 2 of your question. But Whoever designed the universe has to have an immense intelligence. So whether one wants to call such an intelligence God or not is a semantic question. So that settles part 1 of your question.jerry
May 4, 2009
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So I guess this is the straight question:
I asked you to explain to me why saying “the universe had a material cause” is not an absurd statement.
Is this an absurd statement: "The universe had a material cause"? If you are using material cause as in Aristotle's four causes (from Wiki: the result of whose presence something comes into being—e.g. the bronze of a statue and the silver of a cup, and the classes for which contain these), it would seem that is equivalent to saying the universe created itself, which does sound absurd. But then I am not versed in philosophical debate. As I have often remarked, we are better counting the number of horses teeth than debating it.Alan Fox
May 4, 2009
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Marduk said: "Immaterialism is not coherent, it only seemed coherent to peoples [sic] who haven’t thought about it enough and were not exposed, nor do they expose themselves to ideas that clearly overturn immaterialism." In other words, people who aren't materialists are either stupid or ignorant. It's always dangerous to call someone who disagrees with you stupid or ignorant. There just might be something you have overlooked. I recommend you start with Bishop Berkeley, who was neither ignorant nor stupid, thought very deeply about this question, and who arrived at a very different conclusion from your own. Basically your arguments come down to noticing that our experience includes patterns and regularities that appear to be beyond our control, such as the words I type going into cyber-space, where they will remain even if I die tomorrow. One explanation for this is that there is actually a world of matter out there that obeys physical laws. But there are other possible explanations, equally internally self-consistent. One is that we are simply in a dream. I repeat from my earlier post: Can you prove, even to yourself, that you are not now dreaming? Another is that we are all experiencing virtual reality, as in the Matrix series of movies. A third is that the world is in fact virtual reality, but of a different kind; that there is no material universe at all; that all our experience is an illusion created by God. The patterns and regularities we notice in our experience are created, managed, and organized by Him in order to give us this apparent physical reality in which to play, learn, and grow. His mind replaces the super-computer controlling the Matrix, only it is benevolent, not malevolent. There is no logical reason for choosing one explanation over another, but the materialist explanation has one insurmountable difficulty, in my opinion. And that is that the materialist point of view simply cannot explain how experience arises out of inanimate matter. How do complex patterns of electro-chemical activity in the brain become or produce experienced sensations, emotions, and thoughts? Put another way, in the materialist paradigm, the brain is just a machine, a very high powered computer. How does one program a computer to feel pain? To experience love or hate?Bruce David
May 4, 2009
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Alan, you are ducking the question...
Ask me a straight question and I will give you an honest answer. It may only amount to "I don't know".Alan Fox
May 4, 2009
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As far as I can tell, none of the theists here have answered the question I raised way back in comment #8:
Hart presumably considers the non-contingent ground of being to be the Christian God. This in itself seems to be an unwarranted assumption. Why must existence be underwritten by a god at all, much less the specific personal God of the Christians?
Barry, would you like to take a stab at it?beelzebub
May 4, 2009
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StephenB: No! - I was trying to point out to Marduk my problem with his rational - that the universe is (including time) had no cause other than itself which I find hard to grasp in light of the law of cause and effect. I am waiting for Marduk to explain how "existence always existed" with it implications relative to cause and effect and why those who hold to a cause greater than a material one including time are woefully ignorant people as he set out at the beginning of this thread.alan
May 4, 2009
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Alan Fox quotes me: “Alan, when you can explain to me how an entity subject to the normal rules of the materialist paradigm can account for its own existence, I will grant that that question is merely ‘unexplained.’” Then he writes: “When I can explain how to account for the existence of the universe, you will grant that it is “unexplained”? I’ll give it some thought. Actually, my position is quite easily understood. I don’t have any explanation for the origin of the universe, or for the origin of life on Earth. I doubt I will ever find one. It will remain a mystery to me.” Alan, you are ducking the question (i.e., you are engaging in yet more averting of your gaze). One can say that the existence of a material thing can, in principle, be accounted for under the materialist paradigm, while at the same time adding a caveat that there is presently insufficient information to explain its existence. This is what you did. But that is not a response to my challenge. I asked you to explain to me why saying “the universe had a material cause” is not an absurd statement. You had a choice. You could admit that logic compels the conclusion that the statement “the universe had a material cause” is an absurd statement. Or you could duck the question. Unsurprisingly, you chose the latter.Barry Arrington
May 4, 2009
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I read some of those articles by A.N. Wilson. As a lover of music, I can personally relate to this statement: No, the existence of language is one of the many phenomena – of which love and music are the two strongest – which suggest that human beings are very much more than collections of meat. They convince me that we are spiritual beings, and that the religion of the incarnation, asserting that God made humanity in His image, and continually restores humanity in His image, is simply true. As a working blueprint for life, as a template against which to measure experience, it fits.Berceuse
May 4, 2009
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Any mention of form or structure at all causes immaterialism to collapse because of the logical absurdity, of form without structure and the absolute requirements of existability, and detectability. There is no dichotomy between immateriality and materialism. All that we can know is that matter cannot exist without form but we do not know that form cannot exist without matter as we know it. The fact that you're typing messages on a computer and so on illustrates that form or information is not reducible to matter. Ironically any mention of an irreducible form or structure causes materialism to collapse:
The ordinary objects of our experience are irreducible composites of potentiality and actuality, of the capacity for change and something that persists through the change. In particular, they are irreducible composites of matter and form. [...] It is only the form and matter together that constitute the ball. Hence we have Aristotle’s famous doctrine of hylomorphism (or “matter-formism,” to convey the significance of the Greek hyle or “matter” and morphe or “form”). [...] The form is not the matter and the matter is not the form. Even if, contra Plato, the form of the ball doesn’t exist by itself; neither is it true to say after the fashion of materialism that the ball is “just a piece of matter.” Nothing is just a piece of matter, for matter cannot exist without form, and form (being the principle that accounts for permanence) isn’t material (matter being the principle that accounts for change). (The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism by Edward Feser :58-59)
mynym
May 4, 2009
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Alan, when you can explain to me how an entity subject to the normal rules of the materialist paradigm can account for its own existence, I will grant that that question is merely “unexplained.”
When I can explain how to account for the existence of the universe, you will grant that it is "unexplained"? I'll give it some thought. Actually, my position is quite easily understood. I don't have any explanation for the origin of the universe, or for the origin of life on Earth. I doubt I will ever find one. It will remain a mystery to me. So when you say:
3...The choices are two and only two: (1) believe in an absurdity; or (2) believe in a mystery. Given those choices, the reasonable alternative is obvious enough.
it makes perfect sense!Alan Fox
May 4, 2009
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----Alan: “I have trouble getting past the notion that things and even time itself are NOT causes and as such something “beyond” them caused them." Are you suggesting that time and a contingent universe are the causes of time and a contingent universe? Or, are you saying that time and a contingent universe need no cause?StephenB
May 4, 2009
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Big news: A. N. Wilson has returned to the Christian faith, and he has some interesting things to say about Darwin as well. I happened to visit Ben Witherington's blogspot tonight, and when I read the news, you could have blown me over with a feather. Has anyone else on UD heard the news? For those who can't wait to read all about it, I would invite you peruse these articles (and there are printable quotes galore, I might add): Why I believe again Can you love God and agree with Darwin? Religion of hatred: Why we should no longer be cowed by the chattering classes ruling Britain who sneer at Christianity "Wait - who's A. N. Wilson?" I hear some of you ask. For those who haven't heard of the guy, he's an English writer (renowned for his critical biographies of on Hilaire Belloc, Tolstoy, C. S. Lewis, John Milton, Sir Walter Scott and Jesus, as well as about 20 novels and several historical works), a well-known journalist (former literary editor of The Spectator and the Evening Standard), and a notorious skeptic, who publicly stated that he was an atheist in the late 1980s and published a pamphlet, Against Religion. And A. N. Wilson was no ordinary skeptic, either. He has stated publicly that reading C. S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity made him a non-believer in Christianity itself. Indeed, his biography of C. S. Lewis was particularly scathing of Lewis's arguments for the existence of God, and helped perpetuate the legend that Lewis's own argument for God's existence had been resoundingly defeated in a now-famous debate at Oxford in 1948. Incidentally, readers who want to get their facts straight about that debate might want to have a look at this article by Victor Reppert, entitled "The Green Witch and the Great Debate: Freeing Narnia from the Spell of the Lewis-Anscombe legend": http://books.google.com/books?id=hn1gaNlri1cC&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260&dq=Reppert+Lewis+Anscombe&source=bl&ots=JWP5vcPF5R&sig=R86vSkRQ6LiCVMX8J8PnvQFqcqc&hl=en&ei=wAz_SeW1CI-NkAW36eSFBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA270,M1 Incidentally, Victor Reppert is a fan of an updated version of Lewis' argument, which is defended in this review at A Response to Richard Carrier's Review of C.S. Lewis's Dangerous Idea (2007) by Darek Barefoot. Well, after reading that A. N. Wilson has returned to the fold, I feel that anything is possible. Who knows? Maybe Richard Dawkins will be next.vjtorley
May 4, 2009
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----Marduk: “Therefore it is the simplest explanation - i.e. something must be, for a contingent being that is derived from that which was previously. Many people have believed that existence simply is. In fact the only tenable situation from either standpoint whether one is religious or not is to accept that existence itself has always been, since to say we (being derived beings) were derived from the negation of existence is an absurdity in itself.” Yes, of course, but it doesn't end there. A contingent universe requires a non-contingent, self-existent being for its existence That which "has" existence can only get it from that which "is" existence. To say that a contingent universe can have existence without an uncaused first cause is a nonsensical statement. The only alternative is to say that the universe is not contingent, which is impossible since the universe is nothing more than the sum total of all contingent physical realities. Indeed, science made this clear with the discovery of the "big bang." A contingent universe began to exist; it has not always been. This brings me back to my original point. Materialism is not a conclusion based on evidence; it is a premise based on a preference.StephenB
May 4, 2009
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Alan Fox, re your [38]: 1. All of the evidence suggests there was a point in time when the universe began. We call that point in time the Big Bang. Is it so far a stretch to suggest that that which began is contingent, depending for its being on a prior necessary being? I submit that far from being a stretch, it is the most reasonable position. 2. You quote me: “The main point is that both positions require faith. Your position requires faith in the absurd.” Then you write: “Not really, Barry. It means some of us would prefer to consider the question unexplained rather than accept an explanation that is unconvincing to them.” More gaze averting. Alan, when you can explain to me how an entity subject to the normal rules of the materialist paradigm can account for its own existence, I will grant that that question is merely “unexplained.” Until then, I will insist not only that it is absurd to insist under materialist presuppositions that the universe can account for its own existence, but that materialists are trying to have it both ways. When it suits them they say, “everything has a material cause.” But when it does not suit them they say “the universe does not have a material cause; it just is.” Calling it a “free lunch” does not get your out from under this conundrum. That’s just a semantic dodge (i.e, more gaze averting). 3. A shorter way of stating my thesis: The choices are two and only two: (1) believe in an absurdity; or (2) believe in a mystery. Given those choices, the reasonable alternative is obvious enough. 4. I do no read your mind. But the Teacher has given me insight into every human’s innermost nature. “He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.” Ecclesiastes 3:11 5. Finally, I would point out that both you and Marduk have confirmed the OP. You both agree that the premises of materialism cannot be demonstrated. Marduk says “existence just is.” You agree that materialist premises must be accepted on faith. Here is the OP, the main point of which you both seem to concur with: “There is, after all, nothing inherently reasonable in the conviction that all of reality is simply an accidental confluence of physical causes, without any transcendent source or end. Materialism is not a fact of experience or a deduction of logic; it is a metaphysical prejudice, nothing more, and one that is arguably more irrational than almost any other.”Barry Arrington
May 4, 2009
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quick correction - clarification "I have trouble getting past the notion that things and even time itself are NOT causes and as such something “beyond” them caused them. to be or not to be hey!alan
May 4, 2009
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Marduk "Because there is no such thing as the negation of existence, to say we exist, is to say existence itself exists." Lets just call this "The Marduk" assumption when trying to have a discussion the brings in the relevance of the possibility of a beginning of matter and even time. I have trouble getting past the notion that things and even time itself are causes and as such something "beyond" them caused them. This may be an assumption, but please help me understand why it is woefully ignorant or less cogent than "existence alway existed". thanking you in advancealan
May 4, 2009
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Thus the choices are two and only two: (1) the universe accounts for its own existence; it is a brute fact that cannot be explained; or (2) the universe is contingent, having been derived from a prior necessary being.
Has everyone given up on Free Lunch?
The main point is that both positions require faith. Your position requires faith in the absurd.
Not really, Barry. It means some of us would prefer to consider the question unexplained rather than accept an explanation that is unconvincing to them.
My position requires faith only in that which I cannot explain.
Well, exactly. But if it works for you, that's fine.
You know this is true no matter how much you deny it.
How do you know what others know or believe? I find it most irritating to be told what I really believe (even though I deny it) by someone who is not a mind reader. (And I don't believe people can read minds, either!)Alan Fox
May 4, 2009
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Marduk writes: “Therefore it is the simplest explanation - i.e. something must be, for a contingent being that is derived from that which was previously. Many people have believed that existence simply is. In fact the only tenable situation from either standpoint whether one is religious or not is to accept that existence itself has always been, since to say we (being derived beings) were derived from the negation of existence is an absurdity in itself.” NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE! I agree completely. Now, let’s unpack what you’ve said. “something must be, for a contingent being that is derived from that which was previously” Exactly. Everything that is contingent depends upon the existence of something prior to it that was necessary for it to be. “the only tenable situation from either standpoint whether one is religious or not is to accept that existence itself has always been” You are correct. To suggest otherwise is, as you say, an absurdity. But don’t you see that your position does not, as you seem to think, lead to the materialist conclusion. You write: “This existence is something that is simply there and has always been.” In other words, you aresaying that the existence of the universe is a brute fact before which we must stand mute. But don’t you see that there is another choice. That choice is that the universe itself is contingent having been derived from a prior necessary being. Thus the choices are two and only two: (1) the universe accounts for its own existence; it is a brute fact that cannot be explained; or (2) the universe is contingent, having been derived from a prior necessary being. Which is more reasonable? That gets us back to the OP. No matter how much you try to avert your eyes from the fact, it is an absurdity to say that a MATERIAL being can account for its own existence. To believe otherwise is to believe that which has never been demonstrated, defies logic, and runs counter to every observation ever made. In other words, it is something you believe on faith in the teeth of logic and evidence. On the other hand, to believe the universe is derived from a prior necessary being (i.e., God) does not require such a blind leap of faith. You say, “existence simply is.” Exactly. God is, in His very essence, Existence. That’s what God meant when he said to Moses “I am that I am.” It is what Paul meant when he wrote that in Him “we live and move and have our very being.” To believe in God means we no longer have to believe the self-referential absurdity that a material universe accounts for its own existence. Instead, we can believe that the existence of the material universe is the result of a prior necessary SUPER-material being, before whose existence we must stand mute. The main point is that both positions require faith. Your position requires faith in the absurd. My position requires faith only in that which I cannot explain. You know this is true no matter how much you deny it.Barry Arrington
May 4, 2009
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excuse me on above ^ that is meant to be "...a given point "beyond" time.Frost122585
May 4, 2009
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You see the universemay have always existed "in time"- but if in fact existence transcends beyond time- in some sort of a concept space (which we have no evidence for nor against except the positivist argument for the abstract idea on the merit of it's manifestation as possibility- we could accept that the universe did not always exist- that it in fact ceased to exist a given point before time. Points, after all, are primarily spacial concepts as opposed to temporal. So you have ruled out apriori a concept space that transcends the temporal- if the universe has a beginning then there must be a reason why or how time could begin to exist- and the reason would therefore beg an explanation greater than time itself.Frost122585
May 4, 2009
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Science tells us that there was a beginning to the universe- hence existence "began" to exist at some point- thus it has not "always"- as one way that we know of was in fact non-existence.Frost122585
May 4, 2009
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Barry, "Marduk, I will take you more seriously when you can answer this very simple question: Why is there something instead of nothing?" Because there is no such thing as the negation of existence, to say we exist, is to say existence itself exists. The implication is that existence is something that is simply there and has always been. Consider these questions using the socratic method: Do I exist? Does existence itself exist? Was there ever a point when existence never existed? If you answer the last question with no, then the two prior questions become absurdities. I believe existence simply is and has always been, since if we think about the consequences of being derived beings, existence must be since we are derived. Therefore it is the simplest explanation - i.e. something must be, for a contingent being that is derived from that which was previously. Many people have believed that existence simply is. In fact the only tenable situation from either standpoint whether one is religious or not is to accept that existence itself has always been, since to say we (being derived beings) were derived from the negation of existence is an absurdity in itself.Marduk
May 4, 2009
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To marduk and other materialists on this thread: Could you please offer us a definition of what you mean by materialism. Do you mean: 1. the doctrine that only beings with a spatio-temporal location can meaningfully be said to exist? or 2. the doctrine that only beings with quantitative attributes can meaningfully be said to exist? or 3. the doctrine that only beings with an internal structure can meaningfully be said to exist? or 4. the doctrine that only beings that are independent of the human mind can meaningfully be said to exist? or 5. the doctrine that only beings that are independent of any kind of mind can meaningfully be said to exist? All of these definitions are philosophically problematic. Definition 1 would rule out God, but also the multiverse and other universes. Not only that, but we would have to say the univese doesn't exist, either, as there isn't anything for it to be located in. Definition 2 sounds question-begging. What's wrong with a being possessing purely qualitative attributes, and not quantitative ones? Why are quantitative attributes necessarily more fundamental? Justify your position, please. Definition 3 is too vague, and in any case it is compatible with immaterialism. For instance, some people might say that the Christian God had an internal structure, as He is a Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The difference, of course, is that these three persons are necessarily inseparable from one another; they are of one Being (homoousios). (God cannot be separated from His own act of knowing and loving Himself, as He does these things by nature.) If the materialist doesn't like this kind of structure, then the materialist will have to add that any being must possess an internal structure which is contingent - but that seems to be making a philosophical virtue out of a vice! Why should contingency be a criterion for existence? Definition 4 is not problematic for either materialists or immaterialists. All it entails is that God and the angels (who are supposed to exist independently of my mind) could be described as real, but that Harry Potter (a creation of J. K. Rowling's mind) could not. OK. No problem. Can we all go home now? Definition 5 would rule out God and the angels, but it would also rule out the existence of any minds at all - including human ones! Now, perhaps you're comnfortable with saying that your own mind doesn't exist - you might be an eliminative materialist. But to deny that minds exist altogether is a very radical position for even a materialist to take. But I suspect all you really want to do is to affirm that minds can only be said to exist if they either (i) emerge from or (ii) supervene on some underlying material entity. Claim (ii) is stronger than (i) as it entails that two material entities with the same physical properties necessarily have the same mental properties. However, as I argued in a previous thread, there is no experimental evidence whatsoever for this claim. I thought materialists liked experimental evidence. Why the dogmatism? Claim (i) sounds more plausible, but it is compatible with not only atheism but also pantheism, and it additionally begs the question of what a material attribute is, and why material attributes should necessarily be considered more fundamental than mental ones. I'd say you still have some explaining to do.vjtorley
May 3, 2009
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Eli- a Christin obviously has scripture to appeal to to answer he why questions- though one cant know the full mind of God, one can accept his revelations. This is called theology. If however you seek non-religious scientific or philosophical explanations - you have ruled out the subject of your own inquiry apriori- hence making your question effectively meaningless.Frost122585
May 3, 2009
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Barry, perhaps you can try and answer the question of "why" yourself. I am curious how an atheist, theist, deist, or polytheist can have any knowledge of this why. I assume you accept the Judeo-Christian version as being the correct "why," an issue of faith and not subject to demonstrative evidence or else it wouldn't be called faith... Secondly, you indirectly accuse Marduk of being evil, because his screen name is that of the god of ancient Babylon. Many a Buddhist would call the Judeo-Christian god no less bloodthirsty considering the numerous accounts of genocide attributed to your god.eligoodwin
May 3, 2009
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eli- his point was not that the question he asked was answerable under a judeo christian world view but that it is not answerable under a materialist world view- hence this undermines and disproves Marduk's assertion that you can only have material explanations - or that metaphysical explanations are inadequate. Berry's metaphysical question trumps Marduk's material philosophy, this is not an argument being used to show who is correct -- but to show "what is reality."- and materialism is not it.Frost122585
May 3, 2009
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Barry, perhaps you can answer your own question. I am rather curious how anyone can have any knowledge of the "why" whether they be a theist, atheist, deist, or polytheist. I assume you believe the Christian reason is the correct one, yet there is no demonstrable evidence for this. Secondly, you accused Marduk of perhaps being evil--because his username happens to be the name of the god of ancient Babylon. Many a buddhist find your Judeo-Christian God to be equally horrifying, considering hoeligoodwin
May 3, 2009
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How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress. -Niels Bohr If anybody says he can think about quantum physics without getting giddy, that only shows he has not understood the first thing about them. -Niels Bohr If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. -Niels Bohr It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out how Nature is. Physics concerns what we say about Nature. -Niels BohrFrost122585
May 3, 2009
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