Sorry for the delay; I was unable to see your comment before because it was caught in the moderation queue. Let’s look at religion first. Ideally, I would define it as such: the manner in which a person behaves in accordance with his or her metaphysical worldview. The reason I don’t like the definition I provided in comment #25 is that it is synonymous with how I like to use the words faith and worldview, and I consider behavior or practices to be important to an ideal definition of religion. I don’t think it’s necessary to believe in the supernatural to have a religion; one only has to have a belief about it. It follows that I consider everybody–including atheists–to be religious. If one is to call biological evolution merely common descent with modification, then I consider that to be well-grounded in empirical science (no faith or religion involved). If what one means by the term is common descent with modification entirely by way of random variation and natural selection, then I do think that if one is to hold such a position, she must do so from a position of faith since all the empirical evidence I know of is woefully inadequate to justify it as sound empirical science. Furthermore, the zealous, dogmatic adherence to such materialistic evolution suggests to me that there are metaphysical worldviews at stake which undergird it.

I don’t like this definition in toto, but for general discourse, I define one’s religion as one’s metaphysical worldview. Could you please define “biological evolution”?

Dembski did his part as a man of values and retracted his position. However, I can think of some examples in which, for example, Dr Eugenie Scott has mischaracterized ID scientists and Creation scientists with no apology at all. Not that it matters much to me, but it does reveal that moral diference between Darwin worshipers and Darwin skeptics.

I commend Dr. Dembski for doing so in this case of a bad informant or bad information. Lesson I learned from this is to get two independent sources. I also learned a quick response and apology is good as well. No reason to draw it out.

But, lets review the ignorance of Mr. Padian’s grasp of the current world situation, the global crisis and the ineptitude of translating these issues to the public by a supposed learned scholar to a major Science Magazine…

Mr. Padian in his article to SciAm states,
“Rather than succumbing to despair and depression, they are committing what they consider affirmative acts of faith.”

Buzzer Alarm!

Obviously if Mr. Padian had a clue about how Madrassa’s work, how children are brainwashed starting as early as 5, he would know that its not a choice after 10 years. They are puppets to puppet Masters. He would have seen the pictures of children dressed in war cloths, watched the TV cartoons which promote death and destruction to children of one specific race, listened to music that does the same, and read the educational books which preach hatred and xenophobic fear. This is far different from a person growing up in a free society.

“In short, they are religious fanatics, hardly different from the murderers of abortion doctors, except that the latter zealots don’t kill themselves as well.”

Wrong again, and any FBI/CIA profiler will tell him there’s a huge difference between a brainwashed individual and one who makes a choice. Dave pointed it out a few differences. Plus, lets remember that the suicide bomber has to be trained, given a bomb, given directions where to blow the bomb. He’s not acting as an independent agent. Rarely if ever. Most importantly, the suicide bomber is following orders to murder multiple innocents not associated with the personal plight of the bomber or the puppet master.

Whereas a single individual who murders a Doctor that daily murders(by law) innocent babies is directly related to the cause the individual is trying to stop. This does not make any action good by either individual. Both are committing grave acts of sin. But if Mr. Padian wants to compare oranges to oranges he needs to think of McVeigh, or the bomber of Atlanta. The blind man directing traffic however comes in here, calling good evil, evil good. He refuses to acknowledge the death of over 35 million babies, many of which had a heart beat, blood running thru its tiny little veins, pain receptors reacting to the burns, the cold steel touch, the killing fields of America. He neglects to undertand that while Europe taught people to wear a condom, not get married, they would eventually pay the consequences in old age, and a vast shift in cultural changes. The same secularist views are true in America, except we are fortunate in that the vast immigrants into our socienty share our faith.

Continuing…
“Shermer cites Princeton University economist Alan B. Kreuger’s finding that some countries that have spawned many terrorists (Saudi Arabia and Bahrain) are economically well off yet lack civil liberties, whereas poor countries that protect civil liberties are unlikely to spawn terrorists.”

And he is spot on – correct. Saudi Arabia produces a virolent strain of Islam from the Wahhabi sect. The Sauds are responsible for one of the most oppressed societies in the world and they controlled all religious doctrine thru the clerics. They begain exporting this extremist ideology to other nations. In fact, in our own nation, the documentation collected has shown this to be true. So yes, closed societies, without free media, education brainwashing of a child until adulthood is effective in creating a hateful killer. Pakistan is suffering from this now as its out of control there. But Mr. Padian refuses to acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of 1.5 billion muslims are peaceful. While I do not agree with Islam, I can still recognize that people are the ultimate decision makers and when given freedom, usually do not choose hatred.

continuing…
“That might be a good correlation, but a better factor than civil liberties is probably the degree of fundamentalist religious extremism present in a country.”

Buzzz Alarm again!

Its an excellent correlation and in fact the only correlation. You cannot have religious extremism present in an open, pluralistic society Mr. Padian. Where were you in Civics Class 101? The professor seems to not understand the very country he lives in in opposition to Dictatorships/Tyrants/Authoritarian regimes of closed societies.

This is not a chicken and egg scenario Mr Padian. It is a Master/puppet scenario.

The religious extemist fundamentals of Yeshua Ha Moshiach(Jesus, Messaiah) are Love, Mercy and Justice. It is the flock who gets lost, not the shepherd. Mr. Padian in his ignorance evidently does not understand the teachings of Christ in his comparisons of religious ideologies to that of Atheist values – which of course have none. They make them up as the go along. This is why their laws and values change. Its not that they are more enlightened. Its that they follow their lust and desires.

“The murderers of 9/11 were Islamic jihadists first, citizens of their various nations second.”

Big Buzzer!

Wrong, wrong, and wrong Again! They were children first Mr. Padian, educated by Kings and Dictators trained to hate one people, one nation, and one ethnic race – in the case with Islam and especially Arabic countries – Israel. Then they were trained to hate the Great Satan – that would be you Mr. Padian, and Dembski, myself, Mickey Mouse, Doroth and Toto! Everyone in America simply because we are an ally and refused to allow people like the current psycho in Iran “wipe Israel off the map”. These people were all children first, raised in nations by Tyrants who used religion for hatred and brainwashing in a closed society, a closed media, and no free speech. It did not matter that the children grew up and received advanced degrees. Because they never saw the outside world without jaundiced eyes from their childhood. You cannot reverse 20 years of brainwashing in just a few months/years. Its a long process.

And this is why pseudo-intellectual talking brain farts will not work. Simply talking to dictators and madmen do not work. It only slows down the inevitable clash. Chamberlain and England learned this the hard way Mr. Padian. Pressure must be applied. And in the end, if all else fails, you must kill the beast at the top so the children of a new generation can rise up without being brainwashed. Children that have access to free and open media, free speech, freedom of religion, freedom to convert, freedom to be atheist or agnostics. Ahaaaa… now, how about that? Free to be “atheist or agnostic”? Yes, of course, this is what Christ taught. You have a right not to believe. But it appears Mr. Padian is ignorant of Christ true teachings.

But, lets examine atheist. What happens when that is the only thing you can be? You get communism! Marx cursed millions when he turned from God and then Lenin and Stalin ruthlessly executed the Communist Manifesto. March comrade, march!

This is what’s wrong with atheist and spiritually blind people.
They can see a problem with religion extremes, but they cannot see the true reason. That all dictatorships, tyrannical rulers, autocratic governments produce extreme ideology. It has nothing to do with religion per say, but of closed societies prevented from the top of making their own choices. He refuses to see the past experience of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, North Korea(today), Cuba, Venezuela…. grrrr. He refuses to acknowledge the death of millions upon millions at the hand of atheistic dogma converted into extremist anti-God killing fields, Gulags, and Red China. Hundreds of millions dead at the hand of his secular/humanist ancestors and current brothers today. He fails to point this out in his letter. So, he is as blind as Dawkins.

I thought professors new how to study, think, and find facts.

I thought publications like SciAm recognized a terribly lame argument when they received one. But evidently, in their rush to defend evolution, they too are blind.

Millions have died in North Korea Mr. Padian, but I see you did not write to SciAm about that. Hundreds of thousands died in Cuba, millions suffer below poverty while Castro is a billionaire. Thousands have flocked to America. You’re lost Mr. Padian on one side of the equation. There’s a healthy balance you refuse to see. And while not all religions are equal in my opinion. I’ll only speak for Judeo-Christian values. It is not religion in this case that is evil Mr. Padian, its is people who are evil. People who do not allow dissent. People who want to tar and feather entire groups like you do Mr. Padian. You Mr. Padian are every bit a fundamentalist when you look in the mirror every day and refuse to allow free dissent of Darwin, free and open optional classes on religion.

Your extremist ideology and that of your comrades is the result of our current public schools that are now the worst in the world of industrialized nations. By locking out other opinions, you have allowed only one in. By controlling schools paid for by citizens of this country you now have 35 million dead babies, millions of dysfunctional people, depressed, taking medication for symptoms instead of identifying the problem, feeding drugs to small children, all in the name of scientism, secular society, and government dictated schools who are no longer Of, By, or For the people.

The letter to SciAm is uninformed, misleading, uneducated, drivel which a high school debate team would shred to pieces.

11 million people in Iraq voted to end the brainwashing in their country. I wonder if Mr. Padian supports them.

My apologies if this is to long a response. But you cannot expose such ignorance and blindness within a few short lines.

But not only a religious idea. Think of all the thousands of books, papers and articles that have been written in support of neo-Darwinism, and all the money that has been spent in support of this project. Careers, institutions, reputations and life-purposes are undermined when the reigning orthodoxy is undermined.

I hate to be cynical, but we’ll see. The opposition is notorious for its venomous diversionary propaganda. Does it betray a lack of substance to their claims? I think it does.

Rude said, “Amen, DS! Let’s call it like it is. Forgot to say that in above. In certain ways I appreciate people like Richard Dawkins. He may not play by the same rules as we do, but at least you know where he stands. Should he ever see the error of his ways he’d be a valuable warrior. David Horowitz is an example of a fighter who changed. Some folks don’t like fighters but I suspect that maybe the Deity does.”

I agree, Rude. Dawkins has his faults, but at least he is willing to go against the tide of popular opinion to tell one thing the way it really is–that a universe without any trace of intelligent design is favorable for atheism. This certainly doesn’t help his materialist colleagues who insidiously try to pacify the religious masses with crap like, “religion and science occupy two completely separate intellectual spheres”.

Monimonika,

Anti-ID bloggers will never be satisfied with anything Bill has to say as long as he defends ID. The reason for this is that he is a leading proponent of an idea which, if accepted, would topple a religious ideology from its position as established scientific orthodoxy. History has shown that people tend to become quite desperate and reactionary when their religious worldviews are at stake.

Once again, laughable.