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Ockham’s Razor is a Modern Myth

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I realize this is slightly off-topic, but it is related to the spirit of Uncommon Descent. It turns out that Ockham’s Razor is nothing more than a modern myth, and this was proven by William Thornburn in a brilliant and devastating paper he published in Mind 27 (1918), pp345-353.

Ockham’s Razor states that “entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem”, which is often translated as “entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily”. In other words, do not invent more things to fit the facts than are needed. William of Ockham (c. 1288 – c. 1348) himself was a medieval logician, known as the “Singular and Invincible Doctor” (many medieval logicians had street names like this). He was very famous in his own time. “If the Gods used Logic”, said his editor, Mark of Beneventum, “it would be the Logic of Ockham”.

But Ockham never invented Ockham’s Razor. Thornburn appears to have meticulously gone through a vast amount of material, and found that the phrase “Ockham’s Razor” comes from the writings of Sir William Hamilton in the 19th Century. The phase “entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem”, can be found no earlier than 1639, in the writings of John Ponce of Cork. More importantly, neither similar phrases, nor anything that really resembles the concept they are expressing, can be found in the writings of Ockham.

Thornburn’s paper has never been challenged, but the myth remains. If myths can persist in philosophy, why not in science? If unchallenged scholarship can simply be ignored, should it surprise us that science supporting ID is also ignored? How many other scholarly and scientific myths are there out there?

Comments
When you see scaffolding at work, you see design at work. One precedes the other.Upright BiPed
July 6, 2009
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Note too that Theobald's claim "standard genetic processes easily produce these [IC] structures" is completely unsupported by empirical evidence. He might have been able to claim that standard genetic processes could in theory be able to produce these structures.lars
July 6, 2009
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mereologist wrote,
Is anyone else aware of anything Behe has written on Muller?
@jerry,
Behe’s definition should be used in any discussions of IC. His ideas on this have been misused a lot both on this site and elsewhere.
Hear, hear. Does this affect the question of Muller's having "refuted" Behe? As far as I can see, Theobald uses an inaccurate definition of IC according to Behe's Amazon blog post (although it is apparently the definition Behe gave in DBB p. 39: "wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning"; yet we should use his most up-to-date definition). Yet I think Muller's/Orr's point still applies in theory, that a system's being IC (by the most refined definition) is not a 100% barrier to its arising via RM+NS, because an IC system can be built by "slight, successive modifications", not just additions. Can anyone more knowledgeable comment on that? On the other hand, as others have already pointed out, all this gives evolutionists is a loophole to wriggle out of one point of logical impossibility. It does not give a very robust theoretically possibility, let alone a workable theory of how an IC system could arise via NDE. It's interesting that the examples given of Mullerian interlockingly complex (MIC) systems, a bridge and an arch, (a) are both intelligently designed systems; and (b) lack any suggestion of how they could arise "(by continuously improving the initial function, which continues to work by the same mechanism) by slight, successive modifications of a precursor system". In the case of the bridge, for example, the addition of the top stone does not seem to improve the bridge's function. Theobald dismisses this shortcoming, saying "Whether this improves the functionality of the bridge is irrelevant — it may or may not, the bridge still functions." But how can a mutation that does not improve function become established in the population, so that a successive mutation can build upon it? Theobald says "Orr has emphasized the adaptive possibilities in the Mullerian two-step (i.e. improvement of function at each step)." But I have not looked to see whether Orr offers examples, nor have I digested the examples in nature that Theobald links to. Regardless, the bridge and arch examples do not refute Behe's claims about IC systems because Behe claimed IC systems "cannot be produced directly (that is, by continuously improving the initial function...)". Would it be accurate to say then that MIC shows a logical loophole in Behe's IC claim, but the examples examined so far fail to show IC systems that really could arise via evolution (defined as requiring continuous improvement)? Incidentally, I've been following ID for several years now, and thought I was mostly down to hearing the same points over and over. But I hadn't heard about MIC till this post.lars
July 6, 2009
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mereologist:
Muller was talking about organisms, but the idea he described is just as applicable to individual biochemical systems.
How can that be when Muller didn't even know the inside of the cell? Now if Orr can take what he says on paper and actually demonstrate it he may have something. Until then all you have is a bunch of hot air without a balloon to put it in.Joseph
July 6, 2009
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Mereologist, Allen Orr's explanation is nothing but guesswork. It is a rumination on what is perecieved to be possible, not what has been observed to actually take place. You guys are always in conjecture mode, never in empirical mode. Can you tell us when will be able to make the switch?Oramus
July 6, 2009
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"The upshot is that Muller refuted Behe before Behe was even born." Behe has never been refuted. What has happened is that some people play make believe and then use their "make believe" as evidence. Orr's scenario should be visible in the genomic structure someplace. If it isn't then it is just a "just told story." If it is, then it is an interesting structure to study.jerry
July 6, 2009
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Joseph, Muller was talking about organisms, but the idea he described is just as applicable to individual biochemical systems. Here is how Allen Orr explains it:
An irreducibly complex system can be built gradually by adding parts that, while initially just advantageous, become -- because of later changes -- essential. The logic is very simple. Some part (A) initially does some job (and not very well, perhaps). Another part (B) later gets added because it helps A. This new part isn't essential, it merely improves things. But later on, A (or something else) may change in such a way that B now becomes indispensable. This process continues as further parts get folded into the system. And at the end of the day, many parts may all be required."
The upshot is that Muller refuted Behe before Behe was even born.mereologist
July 5, 2009
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Apparaently what Muller was discussing isn't even rel;evant to what Behe is saying: MikeGeene:
You are correct in noting that Muller's discussion is not directed towards the behavior of proteins at a molecular level. He is not talking about the type of complexity I describe on page 216 in The Design Matrix. In fact, we know that Muller's description of evolution did not lead scientists to anticipate this type of complexity (see p. 13). Muller is talking about the whole organism as the "machine" (which, as seen from pp. 101-103 of TDM, is not relevant). What he is essentially describing is a whole organism as an interlocking mass of complexity such that lethals should have been "among the commonest forms of mutants" and "we should expect very many, if not most, mutations to result in lethal factors, and of the rest, the majority should be "semi-lethal" or at least disadvantageous in the struggle for life." In other words, a non-telic view of evolution would lead us to expect that organisms should be a Rube Goldberg machine, a hodgepodge of factors tightly connected through a long history of co-evolutionary selection. What Muller and early views of evolution did not expect was what we found "“ that life is more rational than this; than life is built around the design principle of modularity (see pp. 167-169).
Joseph
July 5, 2009
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Behe recently responded to people who ascribe a definition of irreducible complexity to him that he does not hold. http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A3DGRQ0IO7KYQ2/ref=cm_blog_blog Behe's definition should be used in any discussions of IC. His ideas on this have been misused a lot both on this site and elsewhere.jerry
July 5, 2009
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mereologist:
To the best of my knowledge, Behe has never acknowledged Muller’s work on interlocking complexity or responded to it.
What work? Did Muller even understand the internal workings of the cell? No. So what work should Behe respond to?Joseph
July 5, 2009
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lars, Good question. To the best of my knowledge, Behe has never acknowledged Muller's work on interlocking complexity or responded to it. I don't remember seeing Muller mentioned in Darwin's Black Box or The Edge of Evolution, and he doesn't appear in the index of either book. A Google search on "Behe Muller" comes up with hundreds of pages that are critical of Behe, but I can't find anything written by Behe himself on the subject. Is anyone else aware of anything Behe has written on Muller?mereologist
July 4, 2009
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mereologist/dbthomas, thanks for the explanations of Muller and interlocking complexity. What is Behe's reaction to Muller?lars
July 4, 2009
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Dear dbthomas: Thanks for the spelling correction. I am quite happy to withdraw my point about similar phrases and concepts too. Even so, Ockham's Razor remains a modern myth. And if such a thing is a myth, one wonders what else in the realm of science and scholarship might also be.Alfred Russel
July 4, 2009
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For mereologist: Page 203,4, Darwin’s Black Box:
Might there be some as-yet-undiscovered natural process that would explain biochemical complexity? No one would be foolish enough to categorically deny the possibility. Nonetheless, we can say that if there is such a process, no one has a clue how it would work. Further, it would go against all human experience, like postulating that a natural process might explain computers. (emphasis added)
The design inference requires specific criteria. If that criteria isn't met then the design inference isn't warranted. That criteria is the positive evidence. And if you want to say "it evolved" it is up to YOU to demonstrate it is even possible. However scientists have no clue what makes organisms what they are.Joseph
July 3, 2009
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Echidna-Levy, That's the whole point now, isn't it? Neither ND nor ID has 'proven' anything. We are on the same playing field. Yet NDists deny ID is science. If so, then neither is ND science. Furthermore, ID is more likely to get the closest to 'proving' anything, since it is a positive claim, whereas ND, claiming spontaneity as a core idea, could never explain anything. How does ND prove a negative? So the advantage goes to ID. It predicts we will find more and more evidence of just how molecules become animated? And ID predicts (IMO) that science will discover that the fundamental forces of nature are embedded with information vis-a-vis their multiplicative division, which gives rise to light, which clumps in different degrees, which in turn creates matter, energy, life. By the time we get all that wrapped around our brains, we will all be in Heaven 'looking' at those united forces, which have names and personalities like Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit.
Yet you have not proven anything of the sort have you? Prove to me the first replicator was not formed by undirected natural processes. Or Prove to me the first replicator (or whatever it was you think was created by intervention) was formed by intelligent design. As you prefer. Or if you think birds arrived with feathers intact, fish with scales then prove that to me.
Oramus
July 3, 2009
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Lars, try this: Character X was useful for something. Then, a new system evolved that was utterly dependent on X. This system makes use of X but it does not do the same exact thing as X. If you knock out X, that system falls apart, and it is that system, as a whole, that is IC. If the organism as a whole depended on that system, which is almost certainly the case, it's likely screwed whether or not X could still be useful on its own or not. X is, in roughly analogous terms, like a foundation: it's not a skyscraper, but a skyscraper has to have one. Damage the foundation, and the whole thing comes crashing down. And yet, during initial construction, the foundation wasn't being used to hold up a building. Don't take the foundation thing too literally though, as evolution is rarely so simplistic, nor is it pre-planned. Rather just see the general point: you can produce systems that are IC, even if an individual component is not. Another decent analogy from architecture, illustrating a slightly different form of IC, is the arch: it stands on it's own, and yet it required external support until the keystone was placed. That scaffolding was utterly necessary, but ultimately discardable. But, if you grab a sledgehammer and knock out a single stone, the very functional arch will become a pile rubble (and likely anything the arch supports will too).dbthomas
July 2, 2009
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lars wrote:
This doesn’t add up. If character X were “originally merely an asset” before character Y became dependent on it, then you could remove Y, and X would still be an asset. In other words, the whole is not “a complex biological machine wherein which [sic] the removal of any one part would cause the whole system to be non-functional.” Remove one part (Y) and X is still functional.
lars, You're misunderstanding Muller's meaning. Follow this link for an explanation.mereologist
July 2, 2009
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@SingBlueSilver,
Herman Muller, in 1918, used evolution to predict the existence of what he termed “interlocking complexity.” A complex biological machine wherein which the removal of any one part would cause the whole system to be non-functional. “many of the characters and factors which, when new, were originally merely an asset finally became necessary because other necessary characters and factors had subsequently become changed so as to be dependent on the former.”
This doesn't add up. If character X were "originally merely an asset" before character Y became dependent on it, then you could remove Y, and X would still be an asset. In other words, the whole is not "a complex biological machine wherein which [sic] the removal of any one part would cause the whole system to be non-functional." Remove one part (Y) and X is still functional. You cite this to show that IC has been debunked as evidence for ID, yet from the description, Muller was not dealing with IC. That being said... I agree that, as someone already pointed out, the OP has overstated the case. Ockham did often express the concept later referred to by his name, even if he didn't use the words most often associated with Ockham's razor now, and even if he didn't invent the concept. This is not, as stated, a very strong example of a modern myth going uncorrected.lars
July 2, 2009
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I'm curious: is Alfred Russel ever going to comment on the fact that Thorburn's paper contradicts the claim that:
"More importantly, neither similar phrases, nor anything that really resembles the concept they are expressing, can be found in the writings of Ockham"
and instead plainly states that:
"Two (if not more) equivalent phrases are common to Ockham and Scotus: Pluralitas, etc. , and Frustra fit, etc."
? I'd like to know how Mr. Russel could read Thorburn's paper, conclude what he has. In any case, by not responding, Mr. Russel gives the appearance that he is simply not interested in either acknowledging or correcting his error. Somewhat ironic, given the question with which Russel ended his post:
How many other scholarly and scientific myths are there out there?
Well, I can confirm that there are now at least two.dbthomas
July 2, 2009
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Oramus
Yes, the white elephant is “How did ND build functionality in molecular structures that were not already part of a system?” What tools did ND have to work with? How do you describe the development of a uni-cellular organism non-teleologically? It had no enemy. It had no digestive system. It had no defense mechanism. It had no sensory mechanism. What conditions compelled primitive lifeforms to develop any type of system? There are countless thresholds ND is impotent to explain empirically. It has no scientific explanatory power whatsoever.
Does ID tell us how functionality was buiit in molecular structures? No. Does ID tell us how functionality was buiit in molecular structures that were not already part of a system? No. Does ID tell us what tools "the desginer" had to work with? No. Does ID tell us how to describe the development of a uni-cellular organism teleologically? No. Does ID tell us what conditions compelled "the designer" to develop any type of system? No. Does ID explain anything empirically? No.
It has no scientific explanatory power whatsoever.
Nope, none whatsoever.
After-the-fact narratives are a dime a dozen.
YEC seems popluar lately here.
IC tells us evolution is complete and has ‘deplaned’. There is no new direction. Observation supports this conclusion
Any specific observation? Or we just to take your word for it? Cite?
So evolution is not taking place.
Citrate. Swine-flu.Echidna-Levy
July 2, 2009
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Oramus
If something could not have been formed by undirected natural processes, then it must have been formed by directed natural processes.
Yet you have not proven anything of the sort have you? Prove to me the first replicator was not formed by undirected natural processes. Or Prove to me the first replicator (or whatever it was you think was created by intervention) was formed by intelligent design. As you prefer. Or if you think birds arrived with feathers intact, fish with scales then prove that to me.Echidna-Levy
July 2, 2009
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In other words, if something could not have been formed by undirected natural processes, then it could not have been formed by undirected natural processes. This is a mere tautology.
Mereology, nice try at a semantic strawman. I've corrected the statement for you: If something could not have been formed by undirected natural processes, then it must have been formed by directed natural processes. Notice how 'un'directed has changed to directed. This is clearly not a tautology.Oramus
July 1, 2009
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"Elevating chance to a creative principle and personifying it (as if talking about a causal agent) makes a rather illegitimate switch from a scientific concept to a mythological concept." Your right. Chance cannot cause anything because chance has no ontology.To say chance caused something is to say nothing caused it becasue chance is no thing. Vividvividbleau
July 1, 2009
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Please define “scratch” exactly. We starting at individual atoms?
Yes, the white elephant is "How did ND build functionality in molecular structures that were not already part of a system?" What tools did ND have to work with? How do you describe the development of a uni-cellular organism non-teleologically? It had no enemy. It had no digestive system. It had no defense mechanism. It had no sensory mechanism. What conditions compelled primitive lifeforms to develop any type of system? There are countless thresholds ND is impotent to explain empirically. It has no scientific explanatory power whatsoever. After-the-fact narratives are a dime a dozen.
Does it tell us where or what direction that change over time is going?
Absolutely. IC tells us evolution is complete and has 'deplaned'. There is no new direction. Observation supports this conclusion. He have not seen any new life forms in recorded history. So evolution is not taking place. What we see now is a maintenence program running. The 'purpose' of all life forms is interdependence, cooperation, mutual benefit, mutual existence. Nothing lives without sacrificing a part of itself to the whole. Man however, instead of sacrificing his body to other animals, must sacrifice self-indulgence.Oramus
July 1, 2009
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Oramus: "...change over time is directed and purposeful..." Wait, what? Chance is defined in several dictionaries as "the assumed impersonal purposeless determiner of unaccountable happenings." Thus, if you speak of life having come about by chance, you are saying that it came about by an unknown causal power. Elevating chance to a creative principle and personifying it (as if talking about a causal agent) makes a rather illegitimate switch from a scientific concept to a mythological concept. Chance is "absolutely free but blind" according to Jacques Monod. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't let a blind person drive me home. How can chance be directed and purposeful if it's blind? That doesn't make any sense.Barb
July 1, 2009
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I'm saying get away from the computer. No offense to anyone living in a trailer park, nothing wrong with that lifestyle. Anyways I have to say this about occams razor, then I'm going to bed. It's useless for anything. Anybody can use it for their side. When this is brought up in debate I walk away.lamarck
July 1, 2009
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lamarck:
Mereologist, Go take a walk around the trailer park. Observe nature and talk to people.
Your point being?mereologist
July 1, 2009
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Upright, Instead of asking these difficult-to-parse and rather vague questions, why not just state your position? Then, in the likely event that I disagree, we can discuss it.mereologist
July 1, 2009
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Mereologist, Go take a walk around the trailer park. Observe nature and talk to people.lamarck
July 1, 2009
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Upright
You may wish to ask if I think that the evidence for dark matter is a direct contradiction to Newtonian Mechanics, or Maxwell’s Electromagnetic Field, or Quantum Mechanics or Einstein’s Relativity.
What about ghosts? Also, are vaccines good or do they cause more problems then they are worth?Echidna-Levy
July 1, 2009
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