Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Is this “religion”?

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Further to the Discovery Institute’s recent letter to BSU President Dr. Jo Ann Gora (pictured above), protesting the university’s “violation of academic freedom with regard to faculty discussions of intelligent design,” I’d like to ask readers what they think of the following passages, which are taken from a leading best-seller written by a prominent evolutionary biologist, in defense of Darwinian evolution:

Natural selection is not a master engineer, but a tinkerer. It doesn’t produce the absolute perfection achievable by a designer starting from scratch, but merely the best it can do with what it has to work with. (p. 12)

A conscientious designer might have given the turtles an extra pair of limbs, with retractable shovel-like appendages, but turtles, like all reptiles, are stuck with a developmental plan that limits their limbs to four. (p. 13)

We men, for example, would be better off if our testes formed directly outside the body, where the cooler temperature is better for sperm. The testes, however, begin development in the abdomen. When the fetus is six or seven months old, they migrate down into the scrotum through two channels called the inguinal canals, removing them from the damaging heat of the rest of the body. Those canals leave weak spots in the body wall that make men prone to inguinal hernias. These hernias are bad: they can obstruct the intestine, and sometimes caused death in the years before surgery. No intelligent designer would have given us this tortuous testicular journey. (p. 13)

There is no reason why a celestial designer, fashioning organisms from scratch like an architect designs buildings, should make new species by remodeling the features of existing ones. Each species could be constructed from the ground up. (p. 57)

What I mean by “bad design” is the notion that if organisms were
built from scratch by a designer — one who used the biological building blocks of nerves, muscles, bone, and so on—they would not have such imperfections. Perfect design would truly be the sign of a skilled and intelligent designer. Imperfect design is the mark of evolution; in fact it’s precisely what we expect from evolution. (p. 86)

A smart designer wouldn’t put a collapsible tube through an organ prone to infection and swelling. (p. 90)

And would an intelligent designer have created the small gap between the human ovary and Fallopian tube, so that an egg must cross this gap before it can travel though the tube and implant in the uterus? (p. 90)

Some creationists respond that poor design is not an argument for
evolution — that a supernatural intelligent designer could nevertheless have created imperfect features.
In his book Darwin’s Black Box, the ID proponent Michael Behe claims that “features that strike us as odd in a design might have been placed there by the Designer for a reason — for artistic reasons, for variety, to show off, for some as-yet-undetectable practical purpose, or for some unguessable reason — or they might not.” But this misses the point. Yes, a designer may have motives that are unfathomable. But the particular bad designs that we see make sense only if they evolved from features of earlier ancestors. If a designer did have discernible motives when creating species, one of them must surely have been to fool biologists by making organisms look as though they evolved. (p. 91)

Since ID itself makes no testable scientific claims, but offers only halfbaked criticisms of Darwinism, its credibility slowly melts away with each advance in our understanding. Furthermore, ID’s own explanation for complex features — the whim of a supernatural designer — can explain any conceivable observation about nature. It may even have been the creator’s whim to make life look as though it evolved (apparently many creationists believe this, though few admit it). But if you can’t think of an observation that could disprove a theory, that theory simply isn’t scientific. (p. 149)

Before Darwin, sexual dimorphism was a mystery. Creationists then — as now — could not explain why a supernatural designer should produce features in one sex, and only one sex, that harms its survival. As the great explainer of nature’s diversity, Darwin was naturally anxious to understand how these seemingly pointless traits evolved. He finally noticed the key to their explanation: if traits differ between males and females of a species, the elaborate behaviors, structures, and ornaments are nearly always restricted to males. (p. 161)

The author of the best-selling book on evolution has also written gloatingly of a reader’s successful efforts to get Amazon Canada to move Dr. Stephen Meyer’s book, Darwin’s Doubt, from the science section to the religion section. According to this author, Meyer’s book is “not science,” but “god-of-the-gaps natural theology.”

I haven’t yet read Darwin’s Doubt, although it’s high on my shopping list. However, the point I’d like to make here is that if arguing for an Intelligent Designer on the basis of empirical evidence is not science but “natural theology,” then by the same token, arguing against an Intelligent Designer on the basis of empirical evidence is not science but “natural anti-theology,” if you like. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

The author in question is, of course, Professor Jerry Coyne, and the quotes cited above were taken from his best-seller, Why Evolution is True (Oxford University Press, 2009).

Here’s my point. Professor Coyne’s book is widely used on American college campuses in science classrooms, as the following quote by a (mostly friendly but occasionally critical) non-religious reviewer illustrates:

Most of the courses you take in college solely use textbooks for content and assignments. When I was a teaching assistant for a Duke genetics class, the professors also assigned the non-fiction book Why Evolution Is True by Jerry A. Coyne. During the evolution part of the course, students were assigned chapters in the book to read as homework. In class discussions would then focus on what Coyne discussed in each chapter, giving the students and professors a springboard to starting a conversation on what evolution is and what is the evidence for it.

The President of Ball State University, Dr. Jo Ann Gora, has recently banned discussions of intelligent design in BSU science classes, on the grounds that it is a religious idea. But if the arguments for Intelligent Design are by their very nature religious, then surely arguments such as those which appear in Professor Coyne’s book, Why Evolution Is True, criticizing Intelligent Design by appealing to considerations relating to what an Intelligent Designer would and wouldn’t do, are equally religious in nature, and should be banned from BSU science classrooms. In that case, will President Jo Ann Gora issue a directive banning the use of Why Evolution Is True as a science textbook at BSU? And will other books of a similar ilk be similarly banned? Come to think of it, what about banning Darwin’s Origin of Species, too, as it repeatedly makes arguments of the kind put forward by Coyne in his book?

Personally, I’m all for free discussion of issues relating to origins. I think that anti-design arguments (such as those put forward in Coyne’s book) should be taken seriously and debated freely in science classes, and I also believe that the Intelligent Design should be treated as a scientific hypothesis – particularly in view of Professor Jerry Coyne’s admission, in a November 8, 2010 post entitled, Shermer and I disagree on the supernatural, that science is not committed to methodological naturalism and that in principle, there could be scientific evidence for God. Given such an admission, it is hard to understand Coyne’s applauding of recent efforts to have Dr. Stephen Meyer’s book, Darwin’s Doubt, moved out of the science section at Amazon Canada.

It will be interesting to see how (and whether) BSU President Jo Ann Gora responds to the Discovery Institute’s September 10 letter in protest against her recent efforts to censor speech by BSU faculty members who support intelligent design – a letter which Professor Coyne has already commented on. One thing I do know: President Gora has painted herself into a corner. If Intelligent Design is “natural theology,” then so are Darwinistic arguments that ridicule it, by appealing to what a truly intelligent Designer would and wouldn’t do.

And now, over to my readers. What do you think?

Comments
Alan Fox:
You don’t think airplanes have changed over time, based on the experience of what went before?
They change by design. Natural selection and other mindless processes have nothing to do with it. And perhaps you should look up "environmental design"- it isn't what you think it is.Joe
September 13, 2013
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Yeah, my other question AVS, is: what's your real name so I can Google the papers you contributed to?Barb
September 13, 2013
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Oops Aerial not AirialAlan Fox
September 13, 2013
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Clearly, the Wright Flyer was not designed. It should have used ailerons instead of wing warping for roll control, should have been made from aluminum and titanium instead of wood and fabric to maximize strength-to-weight ratio, and the canard should have been replaced with a tail section incorporating a rudder, vertical stabilizer, elevator, and horizontal stabilizer. Anyone who knows anything about basic aircraft design can easily see that the Wright Flyer could not possibly be the product of intelligent design, but must have come about as the result of random tinkering by purely materialistic forces, with no goal or purpose in mind.
You don't think airplanes have changed over time, based on the experience of what went before? A process of "try something and if it doesn't work, try something else"? A sort of environmental design. Try to make something fly out of available materials that will carry someone aloft into the airial environment and you are constrained in all sorts of ways, weight, strength, control, power to get off the ground. But the plane designer who can think of everything and produce the perfect design from scratch without the feedback of testing? That human designer is yet to be found. BTW, Gil, do you still manage to go hang-gliding?Alan Fox
September 13, 2013
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BINGO for my iD friends. Exactly the right equation. If ID/creationism is banned because it touches on conclusions advocated also by religious faiths THEN teaching ideas from religious faiths , like a creator, as false or unlikely MUST also be banned. Reaching there ain't a creator is the opposite of teaching there IS a creator. Is the university neutral? on the conclusion! IF you can't teach there IS a creator HOW can you teach there ISN'T??? If there is a general law against teaching about God?! I think this is a chance for creationists everywhere to attack a loudmouth woman in charge of a institution built by the people.Robert Byers
September 12, 2013
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The issue in question is not the dychotpmy of naturalism-supernaturalism but rather the technological merit of the proposal. You don't validate a principle formed in a paper with another paper. You validate it with a technological brakethrough derived from your findings.Loghin
September 12, 2013
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Clearly, the Wright Flyer was not designed. It should have used ailerons instead of wing warping for roll control, should have been made from aluminum and titanium instead of wood and fabric to maximize strength-to-weight ratio, and the canard should have been replaced with a tail section incorporating a rudder, vertical stabilizer, elevator, and horizontal stabilizer. Anyone who knows anything about basic aircraft design can easily see that the Wright Flyer could not possibly be the product of intelligent design, but must have come about as the result of random tinkering by purely materialistic forces, with no goal or purpose in mind.GilDodgen
September 12, 2013
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AVS:
If you’d like to know what makes an organism what it is, take a developmental biology course.
Which developmental biology course best describes what makes a single-celled organism what it is? AVS:
I can walk you through some off it, but I’m afraid I would lose you in just talking about the basics.
Yeah, we'd be lost at zygote!Mung
September 12, 2013
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AVS, No one knows what makes an organism what it is. You are full of shit. BTW, Sean B Carroll is a developmental biologist.Joe
September 12, 2013
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It's an accredited and highly ranked university in the Northeast US. Molecular and Cell Biology, yes, yes and I have my name on a couple papers actually although I am certainly not the PI of my lab. Any other questions?AVS
September 12, 2013
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AVS: Kindly show proof of your knowledge of biology. Where's your degree from, and in what field of biology (or just biology in general)? Honors student? Dean's list? Published papers? No to any of the above questions gets you sent back under your bridge.Barb
September 12, 2013
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How dumb are you? Read a book on developmental biology, or just general biology that's a good start.AVS
September 12, 2013
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AVS:
If you’d like to know what makes an organism what it is, take a developmental biology course.
I have read SB Carroll's "Making of the Fittest" and "Endless Forms.." and he doesn't know. I read Shubin's "Your Inner Fish" and he doesn't know. So consider your bluff called.Joe
September 12, 2013
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Ah yes, dont feed the troll. I find it funny that the people here with real knowledge of the field of biology are considered trolls, it speaks volumes for this site.AVS
September 12, 2013
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Joe @ 50: Don't feed the troll.Barb
September 12, 2013
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That lovely piece of fiction would only be useful if I ran out of toiletpaper. If you'd like to know what makes an organism what it is, take a developmental biology course. I can walk you through some off it, but I'm afraid I would lose you in just talking about the basics.AVS
September 12, 2013
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AVS, please read "Why Is A Fly Not A Horse?" and stop being such an ignorant ass. But please, do go ahead and educate me, and geneticist Giuseppe Sermonti- the author of that book by referencing some biology book or paper that tells us what makes an organism what it is. And another geneticist says:
To understand the challenge to the “superwatch” model by the erosion of the gene-centric view of nature, it is necessary to recall August Weismann’s seminal insight more than a century ago regarding the need for genetic determinants to specify organic form. As Weismann saw so clearly, in order to account for the unerring transmission through time with precise reduplication, for each generation of “complex contingent assemblages of matter” (superwatches), it is necessary to propose the existence of stable abstract genetic blueprints or programs in the genes- he called them “determinants”- sequestered safely in the germ plasm, away from the ever varying and destabilizing influences of the extra-genetic environment. Such carefully isolated determinants would theoretically be capable of reliably transmitting contingent order through time and specifying it reliably each generation. Thus, the modern “gene-centric” view of life was born, and with it the heroic twentieth century effort to identify Weismann’s determinants, supposed to be capable of reliably specifying in precise detail all the contingent order of the phenotype. Weismann was correct in this: the contingent view of form and indeed the entire mechanistic conception of life- the superwatch model- is critically dependent on showing that all or at least the vast majority of organic form is specified in precise detail in the genes. Yet by the late 1980s it was becoming obvious to most genetic researchers, including myself, since my own main research interest in the ‘80s and ‘90s was human genetics, that the heroic effort to find information specifying life’s order in the genes had failed. There was no longer the slightest justification for believing there exists anything in the genome remotely resembling a program capable of specifying in detail all the complex order of the phenotype. The emerging picture made it increasingly difficult to see genes as Weismann’s “unambiguous bearers of information” or view them as the sole source of the durability and stability of organic form. It is true that genes influence every aspect of development, but influencing something is not the same as determining it. Only a small fraction of all known genes, such as the developmental fate switching genes, can be imputed to have any sort of directing or controlling influence on form generation. From being “isolated directors” of a one-way game of life, genes are now considered to be interactive players in a dynamic two-way dance of almost unfathomable complexity, as described by Keller in The Century of The Gene. Dr Denton
Joe
September 12, 2013
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"We have no idea what makes an organism what it is"? Spoken like a true scientifically illiterate fool who never bothered to open their biology book.AVS
September 12, 2013
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Mung:
But to what end? What is the purpose of these attempts to create models and fit the model to the data? Just something to pass the time? An attempt to think God’s thoughts after him?
Neither. Try harder.Daniel King
September 12, 2013
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The 2004 Encyclopedia Britannica says science is “any system of knowledge that is concerned with the physical world and its phenomena and that entails unbiased observations and systematic experimentation. In general, a science involves a pursuit of knowledge covering general truths or the operations of fundamental laws.” “A healthy science is a science that seeks the truth.” Paul Nelson, Ph. D., philosophy of biology. Linus Pauling, winner of 2 Nobel prizes wrote, “Science is the search for the truth.” “But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding.” Albert Einstein The truth need not be an absolute truth. Truth in the sense that Drs. Pauling, Einstein & Nelson are speaking is the reality in which we find ourselves. We exist. Science is to help us understand that existence and how it came to be. As I like to say- science is our search for the truth, i.e. the reality, to our existence and the existence of whatever is being investigated, via our never-ending quest for knowledge.Joe
September 12, 2013
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wd400:
It is easy to imagine data that, if they were true, would count as evidence against common descent.
Universal common descent is based on imagination, so I can see why imagination could falsify it. However the point still stands- there isn't any way to test it because we have no idea what makes an organism what it is- see "Why Is A Fly Not A Horse?"
What data would count against (common) design?
Well common design requires some level of similarity. Cars and PCs are great examples of a common design. So if there wasn't anything in common then that would count against a common design. As for counting against design, just show that nature, operating freely is all that is required.Joe
September 12, 2013
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Elizabeth Liddle:
No, I don’t think epistemology is “knowledge stopped at the 16th century. I just meant that the idea that science is the fitting of models to data has been around for a very long time. It’s not some “trendy” new thing. Kepler was one of the first to do this spectacularly.
But to what end? What is the purpose of these attempts to create models and fit the model to the data? Just something to pass the time? An attempt to think God's thoughts after him?Mung
September 12, 2013
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sigaba:
If I may, models are axiomatic to the program.
But is the requirement that the models reflect reality axiomatic to the program?Mung
September 12, 2013
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Elizabeth Liddle:
I don’t think science is primarily about “the accumulation of knowledge”, and I think that a great deal of misunderstanding of scientific claims starts here. People think that “learning science” is learning a lot of facts, and that they shouldn’t have to have wrong, unproven, “facts” pushed into them by Darwinists.
Well, that's because you misconstrue both science and knowledge. Science is not about the accumulation of facts, and neither is knowledge the accumulation of facts.Mung
September 12, 2013
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BTW Lizzie, the same type of tests for universal common descent can be used to support a common design. It is easy to imagine data that, if they were true, would count as evidence against common descent. What data would count against (common) design?wd400
September 12, 2013
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BTW Lizzie, the same type of tests for universal common descent can be used to support a common design. So by your logic a common design model is scientific. Thank you.Joe
September 12, 2013
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It is, actually
Saying something is something do not seems scientific to me.
Both those models have equations
Could you enlight me with the parameters of the equation of CD and OOL? Thanks.Chesterton
September 12, 2013
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Chesterton:
Very scientific definition.
It is, actually. Not sure if you were being sarcastic.
Could you give me an example of science that you think is not expressed “by formulas”?
Most of the models of biology, like Common Descent and OOL.
Both those models have equations, as well as physical models - in vitro experiments for example, but again, those experiments are modeled with equations. In my field we also talk about "animal models" - a genetically engineered mouse, for instance, that approximates to what we think might be going on in a human disorder. But again, the fit of model to data is quantitative evaluated via equations that make predictions that we compare to our empirical data.
4. Ok understood ID it is not a model, but what is it? What are music and architecture that can reveal “other truth”.
Not quite sure of what you mean. But when I listen to a great piece of music, or play it, I seem to understand my place in the world a little better, and my relationship with it. Can't really put it better than that.Elizabeth B Liddle
September 12, 2013
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Trying again- Lizzie:
And no, ID is not a testable model, as it stands.
Yes it is and we have said how to test it.
And yes, UCD models can, and are, tested.
Lizzie, no one knows what makes an organism what it is. So how can it be tested? You don't even know what mutations nor how many to get from one body plan to another. Heck you don't even know if it's possible.Joe
September 12, 2013
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Lizzie:
And no, ID is not a testable model, as it stands.</blockq
Joe
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