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	<title>Comments on: Interview with Timothy Keller</title>
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	<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/</link>
	<description>Serving The Intelligent Design Community</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Sarfati</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-239923</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Sarfati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-239923</guid>
		<description>With apologists like this, who needs misotheists.  He raises boring old canards that were answered by the Church Fathers and Reformers.

&quot;If it’s really true, then you have problems of contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2.&quot;

No there are not, providing that you realise that Genesis 2:19 &lt;i&gt;wayyitser&lt;/i&gt; should be translated as the &lt;i&gt;pluperfect&lt;/i&gt; &quot;had formed&quot;.  So say Keil &amp; Delitzsch, Leupold and the NIV, as documented &lt;a href=&quot;http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3462#contradictions&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.
 
&quot;I think therefore you’ve got a problem with how long are the days before the sun shows up in the fourth day.&quot;

Booo-Rinnnng!  We know today that all it takes to have a day-night cycle is a rotating Earth and light coming from one direction. The Bible tells us clearly that God created light on the first day, as well as the Earth. Thus we can deduce that the Earth was already rotating in space relative to this created light.

God can, of course, create light without a secondary source. We are told that in the new heavens and Earth there will be no need for sun or moon (Rev 21:23). In Genesis, God even defines a day and a night in terms of light or its absence.

The Church Fathers Theophilos and Basil suggested that God made the plants before the sun to show up the foolishness of pagan sun worship, since the vegetation preceded the sun.  They clearly didn&#039;t see the problem that this Keller person did.  Neither did Calvin, who argued that on Day 4, God assigned the sun to take over the job of lightgiver to the earth, replacing the diffused light.

&quot;You have problems really reading the Bible in a straightforward way with a young-Earth, six 24-hour day theory.&quot;

No, just a problem with his arrogance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With apologists like this, who needs misotheists.  He raises boring old canards that were answered by the Church Fathers and Reformers.</p>
<p>&#8220;If it’s really true, then you have problems of contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2.&#8221;</p>
<p>No there are not, providing that you realise that Genesis 2:19 <i>wayyitser</i> should be translated as the <i>pluperfect</i> &#8220;had formed&#8221;.  So say Keil &amp; Delitzsch, Leupold and the NIV, as documented <a href="http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3462#contradictions" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;I think therefore you’ve got a problem with how long are the days before the sun shows up in the fourth day.&#8221;</p>
<p>Booo-Rinnnng!  We know today that all it takes to have a day-night cycle is a rotating Earth and light coming from one direction. The Bible tells us clearly that God created light on the first day, as well as the Earth. Thus we can deduce that the Earth was already rotating in space relative to this created light.</p>
<p>God can, of course, create light without a secondary source. We are told that in the new heavens and Earth there will be no need for sun or moon (Rev 21:23). In Genesis, God even defines a day and a night in terms of light or its absence.</p>
<p>The Church Fathers Theophilos and Basil suggested that God made the plants before the sun to show up the foolishness of pagan sun worship, since the vegetation preceded the sun.  They clearly didn&#8217;t see the problem that this Keller person did.  Neither did Calvin, who argued that on Day 4, God assigned the sun to take over the job of lightgiver to the earth, replacing the diffused light.</p>
<p>&#8220;You have problems really reading the Bible in a straightforward way with a young-Earth, six 24-hour day theory.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, just a problem with his arrogance.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Sarfati</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-239914</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Sarfati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-239914</guid>
		<description>Peter, stop knocking down straw man.  The Bible teaches that there was no death of &lt;i&gt;nephesh chayyah&lt;/i&gt; before the Fall.  Plants are never considered such, and were the decreed diet for all humans and animals (Gen. 1:29–30).  See also my article &lt;a href=&quot;http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3004/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Fall: a cosmic catastrophe: Hugh Ross’s blunders on plant death in the Bible&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, stop knocking down straw man.  The Bible teaches that there was no death of <i>nephesh chayyah</i> before the Fall.  Plants are never considered such, and were the decreed diet for all humans and animals (Gen. 1:29–30).  See also my article <a href="http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3004/" rel="nofollow">The Fall: a cosmic catastrophe: Hugh Ross’s blunders on plant death in the Bible</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-175308</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-175308</guid>
		<description>Dembskian

&lt;blockquote&gt; What about predation, disease and natural evil before the fall?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I believe in human thinking death is the ultimate form of evil/suffering. Once death exists predation, disease and natural evil are all secondary details. We fear death because we are moratl. I think this is the basis of the problem of our interpretation. God is immortal and must have a different view of death then ourselves. 
Predation is death by a carnivore, disease is death by a bacteria or virus, and natural evil is death/suffering by natural phenomemon. Since seeds were created by God and death can be assumed as part of the natural order before the fall, then any of these paths to death, including an old peaceful death is a possibility, although not explicit in the text. I believe these types of death can be reasonably  inferred. Job 38:41 expresses a sense the divine view of the natural balance better than I can: &#039;Who provides for the raven its prey, when its young ones cry to God, and wander about for lack of food?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dembskian</p>
<blockquote><p> What about predation, disease and natural evil before the fall?</p></blockquote>
<p>I believe in human thinking death is the ultimate form of evil/suffering. Once death exists predation, disease and natural evil are all secondary details. We fear death because we are moratl. I think this is the basis of the problem of our interpretation. God is immortal and must have a different view of death then ourselves.<br />
Predation is death by a carnivore, disease is death by a bacteria or virus, and natural evil is death/suffering by natural phenomemon. Since seeds were created by God and death can be assumed as part of the natural order before the fall, then any of these paths to death, including an old peaceful death is a possibility, although not explicit in the text. I believe these types of death can be reasonably  inferred. Job 38:41 expresses a sense the divine view of the natural balance better than I can: &#8216;Who provides for the raven its prey, when its young ones cry to God, and wander about for lack of food?&#8221;</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jack Krebs</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-175282</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Krebs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-175282</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;All “catholic” talks about evolution are just opinions and reflections - even if it comes from the Pope.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Are Catholic ideas about evolution any more (or less) &quot;just opinions and reflections&quot; than those offered by any other Christian denomination?  Are some Christian denominations more &quot;right&quot; than others about these issues?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>All “catholic” talks about evolution are just opinions and reflections &#8211; even if it comes from the Pope.</p></blockquote>
<p>Are Catholic ideas about evolution any more (or less) &#8220;just opinions and reflections&#8221; than those offered by any other Christian denomination?  Are some Christian denominations more &#8220;right&#8221; than others about these issues?</p>
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		<title>By: MatthewTan</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-175063</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthewTan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-175063</guid>
		<description>Quote 4, Dembskian

&quot;Peter, what about predation, disease and natural evil before the fall?

Maybe, I don’t understand Catholic theology.&quot;

The Catholic Church has no official &quot;theology&quot; about predation, disease and natural evil before the Fall.

What it does have is theology of the Fall, and with that original sin, and salvation.

All &quot;catholic&quot; talks about evolution are just opinions and reflections - even if it comes from the Pope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote 4, Dembskian</p>
<p>&#8220;Peter, what about predation, disease and natural evil before the fall?</p>
<p>Maybe, I don’t understand Catholic theology.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Catholic Church has no official &#8220;theology&#8221; about predation, disease and natural evil before the Fall.</p>
<p>What it does have is theology of the Fall, and with that original sin, and salvation.</p>
<p>All &#8220;catholic&#8221; talks about evolution are just opinions and reflections &#8211; even if it comes from the Pope.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: antg</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-175049</link>
		<dc:creator>antg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-175049</guid>
		<description>Can someone send PannenbergOmega, chuckhumphry &amp; Dembsian back to the forests and mountains of Scandinavia from whence they come</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone send PannenbergOmega, chuckhumphry &amp; Dembsian back to the forests and mountains of Scandinavia from whence they come</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PannenbergOmega</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-175008</link>
		<dc:creator>PannenbergOmega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I say this as someone who is a sinner, 
G-d bless our ID guys. This is the only hope for civilization and Christ&#039;s church. 

I honestly believe, that they are our paladins of the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say this as someone who is a sinner,<br />
G-d bless our ID guys. This is the only hope for civilization and Christ&#8217;s church. </p>
<p>I honestly believe, that they are our paladins of the church.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: chuckhumphry</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-175004</link>
		<dc:creator>chuckhumphry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>PannenbergOmega,

I know!
Finally, there is a powerful alternative theory to Darwinist trash-science. ID is the best argument from incredulity that&#039;s come around in centuries. That said, arguments from incredulity aren’t necessarily wrong; they&#039;re rather reliable and are employed constantly and consistently by &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PannenbergOmega,</p>
<p>I know!<br />
Finally, there is a powerful alternative theory to Darwinist trash-science. ID is the best argument from incredulity that&#8217;s come around in centuries. That said, arguments from incredulity aren’t necessarily wrong; they&#8217;re rather reliable and are employed constantly and consistently by <i>everyone</i> every day.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: PannenbergOmega</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-174989</link>
		<dc:creator>PannenbergOmega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-174989</guid>
		<description>If there is a G-D. Then the ID movement is His breaking forth into reality. Believe me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there is a G-D. Then the ID movement is His breaking forth into reality. Believe me.</p>
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		<title>By: PannenbergOmega</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/comment-page-1/#comment-174986</link>
		<dc:creator>PannenbergOmega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/interview-with-timothy-keller/#comment-174986</guid>
		<description>Hey buddy, I know what you are talking about. STILL. I will give a little bit of little bit of space here. Especially, as a Scotsman I&#039;m not going to listen to an &#039;Englishmen&quot;. Have you not heard of the Covenenters?

G-d bless, you friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey buddy, I know what you are talking about. STILL. I will give a little bit of little bit of space here. Especially, as a Scotsman I&#8217;m not going to listen to an &#8216;Englishmen&#8221;. Have you not heard of the Covenenters?</p>
<p>G-d bless, you friend.</p>
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