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	<title>Comments on: Godless chic: Brought to you by spineless wonders</title>
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		<title>By: tenstrings</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-83391</link>
		<dc:creator>tenstrings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 19:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Update on my earlier comments: 

Not a peep from Amazon, but the Professor has replied and confirmed no-one has seen the manuscript to &quot;The Dawkins Delusion&quot; yet.

Shenanigans.

J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update on my earlier comments: </p>
<p>Not a peep from Amazon, but the Professor has replied and confirmed no-one has seen the manuscript to &#8220;The Dawkins Delusion&#8221; yet.</p>
<p>Shenanigans.</p>
<p>J</p>
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		<title>By: mentok</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82065</link>
		<dc:creator>mentok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 03:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The so called &quot;atheist chic&quot; Dan Neil talks about in that L.A. Times article is really not about atheism at all. This is what makes atheism so &quot;exciting&quot; to him these days:

&lt;blockquote&gt; (1) In the space of two short years and one rather drawn-out midterm election, conservative Christian hegemony has been rolled back, (2) Intelligent Design has been slapped down in court (the Dover case), (3) and the evangelical movement itself is wobbling, unseated by its overreach on issues such as stem cell research, vaccines that prevent cervical cancer, abstinence-based education, the War on Christmas, tombstone-like monuments to the Ten Commandments in courthouses . . . oh, right, only 800 words. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

1. The Rollback of Christian Hegemony: That&#039;s a political cause celebre not an atheist one. He sees the victory of the Democrats in the recent elections as some kind of atheist victory over religion. In fact there was no &quot;Christian Hegemony&quot; under the Republicans anymore so then under the Democrats. Pretty much all Democrats claim to belong to one faith or another as do the Republicans. There are many jewish republicans as well. During the republican control of Congress did we see any type of &quot;Hegemony&quot; which differed in some fundamentally religious way from when the democrats controlled congress? Has anything changed in America enough that you can prove America became controlled by a &quot;Christian Hegemony&quot; since the time Clinton was president? Abortion is still legal. Evolution and atheism is still the only view on origins and religion taught in schools. Has America changed into a Chrisitan Taliban under the republicans as they would like us to believe?  They may claim that the war in Iraq was religiously motivated, but then what about Clinton&#039;s policy on Iraq? He kept the country under constant bombardment and sanctions. Those who claim that Bush was religiously motivated in Iraq will usually in the next breath talk about the &quot;neo-con&quot; plan to control the oil and dominate the region which they had planned on doing before the republicans took over congress for the benefit of the oil companies. They want it both ways, religious motivation and political pragmatism as motivation. They imply that the republican attitude towards global warming has some kind of religious motivation, then in the next breath they will tell you that the energy companies have those politicians in their pocket.  In reality the so called &quot;Christian Hegemony&quot; never existed. It&#039;s a false meme (thanks richard) used to create a climate of fear and hate of political opponents  by conflating religious belief with non religious political issues e.g. the republicans are religious and they sent us to Iraq, they deny global warming, ipso facto therefore it is religion to blame for their political positions. They propagandize either overtly or by implication that  republicans cannot have any other motivation then their religion in all they do. Even though the democrats also claim to be religious they don&#039;t get the same type of treatment because they have differing political views. So &quot;Christian Hegemony&quot; and the associated rhetoric of christian dominance in the American political system is nothing more then a delusion used to prop up and inflame hatred of christianity and religion.

2. ID is going stronger then ever gaining more and more converts all of the time, and even the leading darwinoids concede that ID will win the battle for public sympathy over the long haul. In fact it is winning already. The amount of commited evolutionists in the world is far outnumbered by people who reject it. And even then I&#039;d estimate that at least 99% of people who claim to believe in evolution have no real reason for doing so other then the acceptance of argument from authority based on blind faith. They accept that the  media annointed &quot;expert unbiased scientists&quot;  are acting in the public&#039;s best interest and have no motivation to falsify the facts. So whatever they hear in school (which the &quot;experts&quot; control with their materialist agenda), or hear in the media, is accepted on blind faith. They don&#039;t really believe in evolution, they believe in &quot;experts&quot;, they have faith in authority figures. I would estimate the professional darwinoid is welll aware of the lack of actual education on evolution by the mass of people who claim to believe in it and this is what frightens them about ID i.e. giving people who have blind faith in evolution a closer critical education.   The idea that atheists should be excited by the Dover case is a clear case of wishful thinking. ID has only spread farther and gotten a larger following since then.

3. The &quot;evangelical movement&quot; is not going away, nor are their political agendas going away  either. If some leading evangelical leaders fall into disrepute there will always be countless more to take their place. The misconception is that if some political issue which evangelicals support is not successful; that then the evangelicals will lose faith or lose their political drive. That is simply another case of wishful thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The so called &#8220;atheist chic&#8221; Dan Neil talks about in that L.A. Times article is really not about atheism at all. This is what makes atheism so &#8220;exciting&#8221; to him these days:</p>
<blockquote><p> (1) In the space of two short years and one rather drawn-out midterm election, conservative Christian hegemony has been rolled back, (2) Intelligent Design has been slapped down in court (the Dover case), (3) and the evangelical movement itself is wobbling, unseated by its overreach on issues such as stem cell research, vaccines that prevent cervical cancer, abstinence-based education, the War on Christmas, tombstone-like monuments to the Ten Commandments in courthouses . . . oh, right, only 800 words. </p></blockquote>
<p>1. The Rollback of Christian Hegemony: That&#8217;s a political cause celebre not an atheist one. He sees the victory of the Democrats in the recent elections as some kind of atheist victory over religion. In fact there was no &#8220;Christian Hegemony&#8221; under the Republicans anymore so then under the Democrats. Pretty much all Democrats claim to belong to one faith or another as do the Republicans. There are many jewish republicans as well. During the republican control of Congress did we see any type of &#8220;Hegemony&#8221; which differed in some fundamentally religious way from when the democrats controlled congress? Has anything changed in America enough that you can prove America became controlled by a &#8220;Christian Hegemony&#8221; since the time Clinton was president? Abortion is still legal. Evolution and atheism is still the only view on origins and religion taught in schools. Has America changed into a Chrisitan Taliban under the republicans as they would like us to believe?  They may claim that the war in Iraq was religiously motivated, but then what about Clinton&#8217;s policy on Iraq? He kept the country under constant bombardment and sanctions. Those who claim that Bush was religiously motivated in Iraq will usually in the next breath talk about the &#8220;neo-con&#8221; plan to control the oil and dominate the region which they had planned on doing before the republicans took over congress for the benefit of the oil companies. They want it both ways, religious motivation and political pragmatism as motivation. They imply that the republican attitude towards global warming has some kind of religious motivation, then in the next breath they will tell you that the energy companies have those politicians in their pocket.  In reality the so called &#8220;Christian Hegemony&#8221; never existed. It&#8217;s a false meme (thanks richard) used to create a climate of fear and hate of political opponents  by conflating religious belief with non religious political issues e.g. the republicans are religious and they sent us to Iraq, they deny global warming, ipso facto therefore it is religion to blame for their political positions. They propagandize either overtly or by implication that  republicans cannot have any other motivation then their religion in all they do. Even though the democrats also claim to be religious they don&#8217;t get the same type of treatment because they have differing political views. So &#8220;Christian Hegemony&#8221; and the associated rhetoric of christian dominance in the American political system is nothing more then a delusion used to prop up and inflame hatred of christianity and religion.</p>
<p>2. ID is going stronger then ever gaining more and more converts all of the time, and even the leading darwinoids concede that ID will win the battle for public sympathy over the long haul. In fact it is winning already. The amount of commited evolutionists in the world is far outnumbered by people who reject it. And even then I&#8217;d estimate that at least 99% of people who claim to believe in evolution have no real reason for doing so other then the acceptance of argument from authority based on blind faith. They accept that the  media annointed &#8220;expert unbiased scientists&#8221;  are acting in the public&#8217;s best interest and have no motivation to falsify the facts. So whatever they hear in school (which the &#8220;experts&#8221; control with their materialist agenda), or hear in the media, is accepted on blind faith. They don&#8217;t really believe in evolution, they believe in &#8220;experts&#8221;, they have faith in authority figures. I would estimate the professional darwinoid is welll aware of the lack of actual education on evolution by the mass of people who claim to believe in it and this is what frightens them about ID i.e. giving people who have blind faith in evolution a closer critical education.   The idea that atheists should be excited by the Dover case is a clear case of wishful thinking. ID has only spread farther and gotten a larger following since then.</p>
<p>3. The &#8220;evangelical movement&#8221; is not going away, nor are their political agendas going away  either. If some leading evangelical leaders fall into disrepute there will always be countless more to take their place. The misconception is that if some political issue which evangelicals support is not successful; that then the evangelicals will lose faith or lose their political drive. That is simply another case of wishful thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: nullasalus</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82051</link>
		<dc:creator>nullasalus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 01:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>tenstrings,

You noticed that too, I see. A little pre-emptive negativity I guess - anything to spread the faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tenstrings,</p>
<p>You noticed that too, I see. A little pre-emptive negativity I guess &#8211; anything to spread the faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Darwiniana &#187; Darwin, Marx, Freud</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82046</link>
		<dc:creator>Darwiniana &#187; Darwin, Marx, Freud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 00:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1890#comment-82046</guid>
		<description>[...] Reference: UD. The problem here is that Darwin didn&#8217;t show anything of the kind. And such is the botched science education now dominant that even writers of textbooks are confused and incapable of seeing the howlers in their pronouncements. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Reference: UD. The problem here is that Darwin didn&#8217;t show anything of the kind. And such is the botched science education now dominant that even writers of textbooks are confused and incapable of seeing the howlers in their pronouncements. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: littlejon</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82041</link>
		<dc:creator>littlejon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1890#comment-82041</guid>
		<description>Just pointing out that the UK does indeed have a law against blasphemy, solely vs Christianity but all the other religions are lobbying hard to be included. Having said that, it was last tested in court against a homoerotic poem purportedly of Jesus&#039; fantasies &amp; was trumped by freedom of expression...
While I&#039;m in a &quot;America is not the world&quot; mood, its not true over here in Western Europe that the &quot;masses&quot; are moving against &quot;Darwinism&quot;. Support for NS has risen from around 80 to closer to 90% in the last 20 yrs. Doesn&#039;t make it true, of course, but then neither do lots of Americans supporting ID make it false...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just pointing out that the UK does indeed have a law against blasphemy, solely vs Christianity but all the other religions are lobbying hard to be included. Having said that, it was last tested in court against a homoerotic poem purportedly of Jesus&#8217; fantasies &amp; was trumped by freedom of expression&#8230;<br />
While I&#8217;m in a &#8220;America is not the world&#8221; mood, its not true over here in Western Europe that the &#8220;masses&#8221; are moving against &#8220;Darwinism&#8221;. Support for NS has risen from around 80 to closer to 90% in the last 20 yrs. Doesn&#8217;t make it true, of course, but then neither do lots of Americans supporting ID make it false&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tenstrings</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82033</link>
		<dc:creator>tenstrings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Will do, but it might be a while. I got an out of office message from the mailbox behind the contact form advising that the owner was out of office until the second of  January.

J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will do, but it might be a while. I got an out of office message from the mailbox behind the contact form advising that the owner was out of office until the second of  January.</p>
<p>J</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Golightly</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82025</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Golightly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 21:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>tenstrings,
interesting.  let us know if you hear from the author or anything from amazon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tenstrings,<br />
interesting.  let us know if you hear from the author or anything from amazon.</p>
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		<title>By: tenstrings</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82004</link>
		<dc:creator>tenstrings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1890#comment-82004</guid>
		<description>At risk of being seen as plugging my blog, I wonder if this is an example of spinelessness:

http://tenstrings.wordpress.com/2006/12/21/whats-wrong-with-this-picture/

Please delete/ignore this post if not relevant with my apologies

J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At risk of being seen as plugging my blog, I wonder if this is an example of spinelessness:</p>
<p><a href="http://tenstrings.wordpress.com/2006/12/21/whats-wrong-with-this-picture/" rel="nofollow">http://tenstrings.wordpress.co.....s-picture/</a></p>
<p>Please delete/ignore this post if not relevant with my apologies</p>
<p>J</p>
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		<title>By: Inquisitive Brain</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-82003</link>
		<dc:creator>Inquisitive Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Denyse,

Great post! But, shouldn&#039;t your title be: &quot;Godless shtick&quot;?

Merry Christmas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denyse,</p>
<p>Great post! But, shouldn&#8217;t your title be: &#8220;Godless shtick&#8221;?</p>
<p>Merry Christmas!</p>
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		<title>By: Ekstasis</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/godless-chic-brought-to-you-by-spineless-wonders/comment-page-1/#comment-81991</link>
		<dc:creator>Ekstasis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 18:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1890#comment-81991</guid>
		<description>Yep, those teenagers have to go and exert independence, while the hapless parents get the opportunity to continue paying all the bills.  But what makes it worse is that the elites have figured out that, much as the kids were duped by the manipulative operator in Pinochio, these kids can be corrupted by their raging hormones, rebel minds, and need to think they are in control.  So they are led down that pleasure seeking path by others to their own detriment, all the while raging against their parents whose hearts are breaking.  Sadly, it is all too common.

Now, in the good old days of hunt and gather, or agriculture, or artisan communities, the leaders of the tribe or village were parents themselves, and all the adults had a stake in developing kids into productive, wholesome citizens.  Kids strayed and they were called into the elders&#039; council for some straight talk, and maybe more than talk.  

But no more.  Do you think the top executives for MTV pulling in huge $$ care one iota about the kids&#039; futures?  Perhaps a few -- the ones that threw out their TVs and added internet filters.  Its ok for other kids, but not their own.

So, what is the answer?  Well, for some, we will just teach our kids that we are just another species of mammals, and competition for mates and natural selection is what life is all about.  Yep, the barnyard ethic.  That should go a long ways toward instilling self-control and fidelity in these young hearts and minds.

Or maybe, just maybe, we should re-institute the idea of personal accountability coupled with loving confrontation.  Perhaps we have gone overboard with the tolerance and permisiveness thing.  Go check out any business management website, and you will get a big dose of the principles of accountability, performance management, and rewards and incentives.  Now, go to the typical American home, and are these principles applied to behaviour, morals, and character?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, those teenagers have to go and exert independence, while the hapless parents get the opportunity to continue paying all the bills.  But what makes it worse is that the elites have figured out that, much as the kids were duped by the manipulative operator in Pinochio, these kids can be corrupted by their raging hormones, rebel minds, and need to think they are in control.  So they are led down that pleasure seeking path by others to their own detriment, all the while raging against their parents whose hearts are breaking.  Sadly, it is all too common.</p>
<p>Now, in the good old days of hunt and gather, or agriculture, or artisan communities, the leaders of the tribe or village were parents themselves, and all the adults had a stake in developing kids into productive, wholesome citizens.  Kids strayed and they were called into the elders&#8217; council for some straight talk, and maybe more than talk.  </p>
<p>But no more.  Do you think the top executives for MTV pulling in huge $$ care one iota about the kids&#8217; futures?  Perhaps a few &#8212; the ones that threw out their TVs and added internet filters.  Its ok for other kids, but not their own.</p>
<p>So, what is the answer?  Well, for some, we will just teach our kids that we are just another species of mammals, and competition for mates and natural selection is what life is all about.  Yep, the barnyard ethic.  That should go a long ways toward instilling self-control and fidelity in these young hearts and minds.</p>
<p>Or maybe, just maybe, we should re-institute the idea of personal accountability coupled with loving confrontation.  Perhaps we have gone overboard with the tolerance and permisiveness thing.  Go check out any business management website, and you will get a big dose of the principles of accountability, performance management, and rewards and incentives.  Now, go to the typical American home, and are these principles applied to behaviour, morals, and character?</p>
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