Fine Tuning and the Intellectual Necessity
| March 16, 2010 | Posted by Cornelius Hunter under Intelligent Design |
You have probably heard about the multiverse–the idea that the universe is really a large number of universes. The multiverse helps to explain why our particular universe seems so special. Our universe seems to be a finely tuned machine and the evolution of life would require low probability events. Is our universe special? The multiverse helps to deflect such thinking. If there is a large number of universes, then perhaps each has a different set of natural laws. And perhaps intelligent life can only be supported by a very particular set of laws. So the only life forms that would exist to observe their universe would be those that live in special universes. Presto, we’re not special and fine tuning and evolution are explained. Read more
48 Responses to Fine Tuning and the Intellectual Necessity
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OK, ba^77: if you know so much about QM, how is it that you don’t know that photons are, really and truly, created all the time? Turn on a light: voila! You’ve just caused a bunch of photons to be created. And yes, Nak is right: all “man” has to do to create them is sit there and emit infrared. No light bulbs required. Do you think that photons are somehow packed in neat little stacks inside of everything and filled up when it’s time to emit one? Well, they’re not. Until they’re emitted, they don’t exist, and when they’re absorbed, they are destroyed.
So doomsday, Please explain quantum teleportation in detail to the first law, which is what we are talking about, instead of talking about the absorption and release of photons from atoms. A process which clearly stays within the first law and is totally irrelevant to the topic we are referring to.
When that is complete, I would like for you to explain why materialists insist that consciousness arises from a 3-D material basis when “uncertain” 3-D material particles do not even collapse from the “quantum information waves” in the first place until a conscious observer is present. Please explain how in the world something can give rise to that which is a necessary condition for its own reality in the first place.
Before discussing quantum teleportation itself, are we agreed that the experiments did not create or destroy energy in violation the First Law? Our understanding is that energy, such as light or body-heat, is emitted from a source as discrete packets or photons which can appear to be either waves or particles depending on how they are measured. If a photon collides with an atom it ceases to exist as a separate entity but the total energy of the atom is increased by that amount. In other words, the photon has been destroyed only in the sense that it no longer exists as a discrete object. Its energy has has been absorbed by the atom. The total energy of the atom/photon system remains the same. As before, it is a loss of form not substance.
Your interpretation is problematic because it involves a paradox either way.
Yes, if consciousness only emerges from pre-existing material systems, but those material systems can only exist when being observed by a conscious intelligence, then we have a straightforward chicken-and-and egg paradox.
But for a conscious intelligence to have a measurable effect in the material world it must itself be material in some sense, even if it exists as some disembodied energy field. That being the case, who or what is observing the conscious intelligence to cause it to come into existence? And then who is observing the observer to cause that observer to come into existence? And so on ad infinitum.
Perhaps there is a problem with that interpretation since it leads to such paradoxes.
Seversky, to make this clear, I am referring to “destroy the photon” as to the complete annihilation of a photon, and all the properties of energy associated with a photon in the quantum teleportation experiments. i.e. there is zero residue of energy to be found.
http://lettherebelight-77.blogspot.com/
Seversky you also stated:
“Perhaps there is a problem with that interpretation since it leads to such paradoxes.”
With the refutation of hidden variables, the only “problem” is that materialism is completely, and irrevocably, falsified as a valid explanation for 3D reality. There is zero “chicken and egg” paradox within the Theistic framework for what we witness in the double-slit experiment:
Quantum Measurements: Common Sense Is Not Enough, Physicists Show – July 2009
Excerpt: scientists have now proven comprehensively in an experiment for the first time that the experimentally observed phenomena cannot be described by non-contextual models with hidden variables. http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....142824.htm
Dr. Quantum – Double Slit Experiment & Entanglement – video
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4096579
“It was not possible to formulate the laws (of quantum theory) in a fully consistent way without reference to consciousness.” Eugene Wigner (1902 -1995) laid the foundation for the theory of symmetries in quantum mechanics, for which he received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1963
Mr BA^77,
Seversky, to make this clear, I am referring to “destroy the photon” as to the complete annihilation of a photon, and all the properties of energy associated with a photon in the quantum teleportation experiments. i.e. there is zero residue of energy to be found.
Didn’t you learn this lesson the last time we discussed quantum teleportation? The photon is not destroyed by the interaction that forces the distant (entangled) photon to assume the same state. It only ceases to exist as a separate entity when it is absorbed by the detector. No quantum teleportation experiment violates the first law of thermodynamics.
Mr BA^77,
“It was not possible to formulate the laws (of quantum theory) in a fully consistent way without reference to consciousness.”
With all due respect to Dr Wigner, there is no term for consciousness in the Standard Model. Are dragonflies conscious enough to cause waveform collapse, according to Dr Wigner? What about phosphor coated screens? Either Dr Wigner is saying that the entire universe was in an uncertain state until the first conscious being began to perceive it, or concsiousness is a base property of matter. This ain’t science.
Nak, just because you deny the empirical evidence, as you do with every piece of evidence for Intelligent Design, does not detract one iota from the fact.
2 Timothy 3:7
“always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.”
Nak, the clear implications are that consciousness must precede 3-D reality. There is no other solution. My question is why are you so adverse to what is so apparent?
Nak, you mistakenly say;
“It only ceases to exist as a separate entity when it is absorbed by the detector.”
The fact that zero energy residue is found at the detector, or even within the entire “teleportation system”, is what firmly establishes the violation of the first law.
Nak you asked:
“Are dragonflies conscious enough to cause waveform collapse, according to Dr Wigner?”
That is an interesting question, and though I am surely no expert on how solid the exegesis of this following video is, I trust that it does indeed provide a rough benchmark as to where sufficient sentient consciousness resides to bring about the “materialization” of the uncertain 3-D particles from the higher dimensional quantum information waves:
The Mystery Of Life – God’s Creation & Providence – video
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4193364
Mr BA^77,
The fact that zero energy residue is found at the detector, or even within the entire “teleportation system”, is what firmly establishes the violation of the first law.
Are we going to repeat the entire comment string from last November?
If there were zero energy residue detected at the detector, it should show a flat line, right? So go find a paper that shows that evidence.
Violating the first law would be Nobel Prize, front page news. It hasn’t happened. All you’ve demonstrated is a short memory for the outcome of these discussions.
No Nak, you only convinced yourself that no violation of the first law occurred in the discussion last November. I just shook my head and gently laughed at the eager willingness with which you lead yourself astray. The fact is that you fooled yourself into believing that no violation occured. Yet the truth is that specified infinite transcendent information is what each and every photon is made of, for that (infinite specified transcendent information) is the one and only known entity which has sufficient causal power to explain the highly coordinated origination/creation of energy in the big bang 13.7 billion years ago.
That no energy residue would be left, within the system, upon teleportation of the infinite specified transcendent information of a photon, to the subject photon, is in complete agreement with all other lines of evidence, such as the completely “instantaneous” timeless nature of transcendent information, and the total disregard transcendent information has for any spatial constraint as well, as well as the complete dominion that transcendent information has clearly exercised over energy in these teleportation experiments. i.e. information tells the photon exactly what to be and do in the experiments. i.e. anything exercising dominion of another entity must possess greater qualities of existence.
“Every solution to the equations of general relativity guarantees the existence of a singular boundary for space and time in the past.”(Hawking, Penrose, Ellis) – 1970
http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9404/bigbang.html
Explaining Information Transfer in Quantum Teleportation: Armond Duwell †‡ University of Pittsburgh
Excerpt: In contrast to a classical bit, the description of a qubit requires an infinite amount of information. The amount of information is infinite because two real numbers are required in the expansion of the state vector of a two state quantum system (Jozsa 1997, 1) — Concept 2. is used by Bennett, et al. Recall that they infer that since an infinite amount of information is required to specify a qubit, an infinite amount of information must be transferred to teleport. http://www.cas.umt.edu/phil/fa.....lPSA2K.pdf
How Teleportation Will Work -
Excerpt: In 1993, the idea of teleportation moved out of the realm of science fiction and into the world of theoretical possibility. It was then that physicist Charles Bennett and a team of researchers at IBM confirmed that quantum teleportation was possible, but only if the original object being teleported was destroyed. — As predicted, the original photon no longer existed once the replica was made.
http://science.howstuffworks.c.....ation1.htm
Quantum Teleportation – IBM Research Page
Excerpt: “it would destroy the original (photon) in the process,,”
http://www.research.ibm.com/qu.....portation/
Unconditional Quantum Teleportation – abstract
Excerpt: This is the first realization of unconditional quantum teleportation where every state entering the device is actually teleported,,
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/.....2/5389/706
etc…etc…
bornagain77 @ 43
First, you should bear in mind that the scientists conducting these experiments or discussing them will all assume the the First Law is inviolable. If you doubt that you are free to contact them and confirm it.
Second, the very first sentence in the paper cited above reads:
Also, from this paper:
Rather than the excerpt you quote, you should have noted this passage:
Note that they describe particle A as having been “thoroughly disrupted” not destroyed.
In other words, two of the papers you cite in support of your position actually provide evidence supporting ours. Thank you for your assistance.
Seversky,
“thoroughly disrupt” is defined as – exhaustively and completely broken asunder. Thank you for proving my point of yours and Naks eager willingness to deceive yourselves by word play. But it matters not to me if you do so, just please try to restrain yourself in trying to convince me that your fantasies are real. It is a bit tiring to have someone insist they are Napoleon all the time wouldn’t you agree?
Mr BA^77,
thoroughly disrupt” is defined as – exhaustively and completely broken asunder.
This kind of Talmudic exegesis of the wording of a web page is pointless. Deal with the fact that detectors detect photons in “thoroughly disrupted” states, they don’t detect the lack of photons.
But it matters not to me if you do so, just please try to restrain yourself in trying to convince me that your fantasies are real.
If only you would do others the same courtesy.
I will try to your royal Highness,,, LOL
I will try to your royal Highness,,, LOL
I commend your efforts, Marshal Ney.