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“Evolution” “experimenting” with different types of early humans?

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1.9 mya pelvis and femur from Kenya/MU News Bureau

That’s the claim in this ScienceDaily piece:

Recently released research on human evolution has revealed that species of early human ancestors had significant differences in facial features. Now, a University of Missouri researcher and her international team of colleagues have found that these early human species also differed throughout other parts of their skeletons and had distinct body forms. The research team found 1.9 million-year-old pelvis and femur fossils of an early human ancestor in Kenya, revealing greater diversity in the human family tree than scientists previously thought.

“What these new fossils are telling us is that the early species of our genus, Homo, were more distinctive than we thought. They differed not only in their faces and jaws, but in the rest of their bodies too,” said Carol Ward, a professor of pathology and anatomical sciences in the MU School of Medicine. “The old depiction of linear evolution from ape to human with single steps in between is proving to be inaccurate. We are finding that evolution seemed to be experimenting with different human physical traits in different species before ending up with Homo sapiens.”

Do we actually know that these individuals are “different species?”

If all the passengers on an overcrowded subway car in multicultural Toronto, Canada, were fossilized and dug up 50k years from now, with no accompanying information, it would be interesting to know how many “different species” would be identified, using current methods?

“Evolution” is certainly a busy lady, it seems.

Here is a synopsis of the problems we face in understanding human evolution.

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Comments
And the materialists all ignore the species problem in their frantic ramblings to make mam an ape.Andre
March 11, 2015
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Polish, as Piotr has pointed out, your quotes do not support your claim that humans were lumped with great apes in the 1960's, because they were not. We can disagree because you're wrong and untroubled by being wrong. As for Darwin's racist quote, I am indeed troubled by Darwin's two or possibly three racist quotes out of his vast corpus of writing. I simultaneously admire his more numerous quotes oppposing the racism of his era. I'm more troubled by the more extreme racist attitudes of almost all anti-evolutionists in Darwin's era, which got worse through the 1930's. Not until the 1980's did creationists begin blaming Darwin for the racism they had for so long been promoting. I've never seen a modern anti-evolutionist in the least bit troubled by creationism's miserable history of racism and antisemitism. For example, our friend Byers makes casually racist statements; but he refuses to admit creationists were ever racist. At Shallit's blog I confronted him with quote after quote of his favorite creationists saying racist things, but Byers went into full denial mode, Na-Na I See Nothing mode. Typical.Diogenes
March 11, 2015
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Yes, Piotr, I'm the one who said "humans were lumped in with apes in the 1960's" not Wki. And I stand by that fact. Let's just agree to disagree:) Or disagree to agree if that's preferable.ppolish
March 11, 2015
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#45 ppolish, Even you can encounter dinosaurs.Piotr
March 11, 2015
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#44 ppolish The Wikipedia article you quote doesn't say that "humans were lumped in with apes in the 1960". It does say that the development of molecular biology in the second half of the 20th century led to the realisation that humans were nested rather deep inside the "big ape" clade. The earlier view was not that humans were exceptional in any way, but simply that humans and apes were sister groups forming a monophyletic taxon within "Old World monkeys" (Catarrhini). The reclassifications shown in the article were not ideologically motivated. They simply reflect increasing understanding of primate phylogeny between 1960 and 1990.Piotr
March 11, 2015
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Although 2015 Evo Biology is confused with "Great Apes". https://uncommondescent.com/human-evolution/human-evolution-dates-really-quite-embarrassingly-bad-and-uncertain-says-researcher/ "for example, that the most recent common ancestor of apes and monkeys could have encountered dinosaurs. Reluctant to abandon the older numbers completely, many researchers have started hedging their bets in papers," So I supposed 1960's era Evo Biology could be screwy too.ppolish
March 11, 2015
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Piotr, what part of "humans were lumped in with apes in the 1960s" don't YOU understand? Fact right there. Undeniable fact. Why can't you grasp that fact? "Until about 1960, the hominoids were usually divided into two families: humans and their extinct relatives in Hominidae, all other hominoids in Pongidae.[22] Hominoid taxonomy 1.svg The 1960s saw the application of techniques from molecular biology to primate taxonomy. Goodman used his 1964 immunological study of serum proteins to propose a division of the hominoids into three families, with the "great apes" in Pongidae and the "lesser apes" (gibbons) in Hylobatidae.[23] The trichotomy of hominoid families, however, prompted scientists to ask which family speciated first from the common hominoid ancestor. Hominoid taxonomy 2.svg Within the superfamily Hominoidea, gibbons are the outgroup: this means that the rest of the hominoids are more closely related to each other than any of them are to gibbons. This led to the placing of the "great apes" into the family Hominidae along with humans, by demoting the Pongidae to a subfamily; the Hominidae family now contained the subfamilies Homininae and Ponginae. Again, the three-way split in Ponginae led scientists to ask which of the three genera is least related to the others."ppolish
March 11, 2015
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Diogenes, "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla” - Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, 1874, p. 178 Doesn't it bother you...?Quest
March 11, 2015
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ppolish, No, you don't think. Which part of "I must place humans among the primates" don't you understand? Where does Linnaeus say or imply that Homo means "black people"?Piotr
March 11, 2015
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i think Linnaeous was talking about black people. Great Scientist, Ignorant Racist; http://io9.com/the-9-most-influential-works-of-scientific-racism-rank-1575543279ppolish
March 11, 2015
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Linnaeus 1747
Non placet, quod Hominem inter anthropomorpha collocaverim, sed homo noscit se ipsum. Removeamus vocabula. Mihi perinde erit, quo nomine utamur. Sed quaero a Te et Toto orbe differentiam genericam inter hominem et Simiam, quae ex principiis Historiae naturalis. Ego certissime nullam novi. Utinam aliquis mihi unicam diceret! Si vocassem hominem simiam vel vice versa omnes in me conjecissem theologos. Debuissem forte ex lege artis. (It is not pleasing to me that I must place humans among the primates, but man is intimately familiar with himself. Let's not quibble over words. It will be the same to me whatever name is applied. But I desperately seek from you and from the whole world a general difference between men and simians from the principles of Natural History. I certainly know of none. If only someone might tell me one! If I called man a simian or vice versa I would bring together all the theologians against me. Perhaps I ought to, in accordance with the law of Natural History.)
Piotr
March 11, 2015
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Diogenes, humans were lumped in with apes in the 1960s. Do some homework before calling "BS". You may be an ape, but your parents were not born that way. Heck, maybe YOU were born a human gasp. "Until about 1960, the hominoids were usually divided into two families: humans and their extinct relatives in Hominidae, all other hominoids in Pongidae.[22]" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apeppolish
March 11, 2015
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Ppolish, the lumper vs. splitter distinction does not support your claim. The difference between you and taxonomists is the difference between monophyletic vs. paraphyletic categories, not lumpers vs. splitters. So that's a red herring. Furthermore, the claim that lumping humans with apes is a recent invention is total BS. Linnaeus said humans should be in the same genus with apes, but the religious objections forced him to falsely put humans in their own genus. Moreover, the word "gorilla", assigned to the ape species after its discovery, was derived from a classical era description of a tribe of primitive humans. Creationists, pre-Darwin, hailed the discovery of the gorilla as a "missing link" (missing link being then a creationist idea, that in the Great Chain of Being from superior to inferior, all intermediate links must exist) which supported theistic creation, BECAUSE of the close similarities between gorilla and human.Diogenes
March 11, 2015
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ppolish, Define the taxonomic characteristics of an ape.CHartsil
March 11, 2015
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Cladistic taxonomy has the advantage of being based on non-subjective criteria (the actual history of taxa). Of course it may change, but if it does, it because we have learnt more. You can use a non-phylogenetic classification because, for example, it boosts your self-esteem; just don't pretend it's science. It would be like replacing the periodic table with an arrangement of chemical elements based on their market price, industrial usefulness, and esthetic quality. Cadell Last's blog makes no sense to me. He confuses various criteria, forgets to mention the connection between taxonomy and phylogenetics (which is mighty odd, since he describes himself as an "evolutionary anthropologist"), and fails to make any valid points. But then he's a freelance science writer, not strictly speeking a scientist, and he may really have little idea what he's talking about. See the discussion that follows, and in particular T. R. Gregory's comments.Piotr
March 11, 2015
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I don't know if you are trolling or you really haven't grasped this, ppolish. But this has nothing to do with lumping or splitting. There is just no way to make a monophyletic group with chimps and gorillas but not humans.wd400
March 11, 2015
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Piotr, you're a Lumper and I'm a Splitter. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpers_and_splitters A debate can be had between the two that avoids the implication "you think the moon is cheese?".ppolish
March 11, 2015
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Am I the only one bothered by the racism of this? News:
If all the passengers on an overcrowded subway car in multicultural Toronto, Canada, were fossilized and dug up 50k years from now, with no accompanying information, it would be interesting to know how many “different species” would be identified, using current methods?
The answer is one, one species. But I have seen exactly this "observation" made in racist creationist books of the 1930's and 40's. So clever! In Darwin's day, racist creationists claimed that different human races, or "so called races" as Darwin called them, were different species. Darwin put the kibosh on that in "The Descent of Man." Polygenism was the creationist view, monogenism the evolutionary view. Darwin pointed out that the racist polygenists didn't know what they were talking about. I know you will try to frame flip that, but creationists have always been more racist than evolutionists of the same era. Evolutionists: get a screen cap of this comment before News deletes it.Diogenes
March 11, 2015
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Piotr, the Tree of Life is not the Periodic Table for crying out loud. Splitting humans instead of lumping makes sense. Scientific sense: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/02/13/the-great-ape-taxonomy-debate/ppolish
March 11, 2015
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#30 You might just as well say that since astronomy changes and new discoveries make us revise earlier ideas, we may one day have to rethink the status of the Moon. We think today, in the 21st century, that its the Earth's natural satellite, but maybe in the next century it will become clear that its orbital parameters were wrongly measured in the 21st century and it's actually one of Saturn's satellites. And, by the way, it's green cheese, not rock, inside. Well, this isn't going to happen. Some findings are so secure that progress isn't likely to change them (whatever else does change). The close relationship between humans and chimps is one of such findings -- already so well supported by molecular data that it can be regarded as established beyond reasonable doubt.Piotr
March 11, 2015
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CH, taxonomic definitions are ever changing. Even if there is one current definition of ape taxonomy, and I don't know what it is - there will be different ones in the future. Guaranteed.ppolish
March 11, 2015
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Piotr, you can't tell me what I can't do:) Besides, today's Modern Biology is next century's outdated Biology. "Can't do" is not great science. Ok, maybe I can't go back in time to the 1950s when Human was split apart from ape, I'll give you that can't. But "cant's" are Scientifically special. Human split not lumped is not special. It is logical, rational, makes for better science too.ppolish
March 11, 2015
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ppolish, In modern biology, taxa are defined by common descent, not by arbitrarily chosen characteristics. If "great apes" (Hominidae) = the most recent common ancestor of the common chimpanzee and the Bornean orangutan plus all its descendants, then the great ape clade contains two living species of Pongo, two living species of Gorilla, two living species of Pan, one living species of Homo, plus several extinct genera and species. You can alternatively define "great apes" as the last common ancestor of gorillas and orangutans plus all its descendants, or the last common ancestor of humans and orangutans plus all its descendants. All these definitions are equivalent. If you like splitting, you can define more exclusive subgroups. The last common ancestor of gorillas and chimps was also ancestral to humans, but not to orangutans. The subgroup of great apes related more closely to gorillas than to orangutans (and containing also humans and chimps) is called Homininae. Inside Homininae, gorillas can be split from the rest of the group, leaving humans and chimps as the closest relatives of each other. Chimps and humans (together with some extinct relatives) are grouped into the clade Hominini. Finally, Hominini can be split into two modern genera, Pan and Homo. What you can't do, according to the rules of biological taxonomy, is to classify Homo separately from the remaining big apes (although you can do that for orangutans). You can split humans from chimps, but not from other apes.Piotr
March 11, 2015
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ppolish Define what makes an ape an ape taxonomicallyCHartsil
March 11, 2015
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Yes they would. Define the characteristics of human. Define the characteristics of ape. Split not lump. Makes for better Science.ppolish
March 11, 2015
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Joe, if Neanderthal and Erectus and maybe another besides us Sapiens survived to the present, they ALL would be grouped together split apart from ape
Maybe this will be the crack that let's the light in. In fact they would (as they are now) be grouped together, and be placed within apes.wd400
March 11, 2015
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#15 ppolish, Reference please.Piotr
March 11, 2015
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"Joe, if Neanderthal and Erectus and maybe another besides us Sapiens survived to the present, they ALL would be grouped together split apart from ape." No, they wouldn't. Define the characteristics of an apeCHartsil
March 11, 2015
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Joe, if Neanderthal and Erectus and maybe another besides us Sapiens survived to the present, they ALL would be grouped together split apart from ape. Lumping would be cumbersome and inaccurate. Presently, the lumping is convenient and inaccurate. Modern Science says split not lump. But the Atheist "headwind" against the good Science is formidable.ppolish
March 11, 2015
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But only recently has “humans are more closely related to chimps than other apes” become increasingly irrelevant.
It's literally the only thing that matters for the taxonomic argument you are making, so I think it may remain relevant, whether you make the effort to understand it or not.wd400
March 11, 2015
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