Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Elizabeth Liddle Agrees: Saying “It’s Emergent!” is no Better than Saying “It’s Magic!”

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For some years now I have argued that when it comes to explaining the existence of consciousness (subjective self-awareness), materialists have nothing interesting to say, that their so-called explanation amounts to nothing more than “poof! It happened.” See here, here and here. I was gratified to learn in a recent exchange that Elizabeth Liddle agrees with me at least at a certain level. In various places in that exchange she wrote:

Certainly an emergent property must be explained in terms of the system; and clearly an explanation must be “systematic” in the sense of specifying a cascade of mechanisms. . . .

“[Emergent” is] simply a word to denote the idea that when a whole has properties of a whole that are not possessed by the parts, those properties “emerge” from interactions between the parts (and of course between the whole and its environment). It is not itself an explanation – to be an explanation you would have to provide a putative mechanism by which those properties were generated. . . .

So the claim that consciousness is an emergent property of the materials of our bodies is not an explanation – it’s a conjecture. “[I]t’s emergent” would be [on an intellectual par with saying “It’s magic!”]. To support an emergent hypothesis you would have to provide a description of the putative processes by which the property emerges. So I agree with that.

In this respect Liddle apparently agrees with Thomas Nagel: “Merely to identify a cause [of consciousness] is not to provide a significant explanation, without some understanding of why the cause produces the effect.” Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False

For Nagel, to qualify as a genuine explanation, an emergent account would make the connection between mental events such as subjective self-awareness and the electro-chemical state of the nervous system “cease to seem like a gigantic set of inexplicable correlations and would instead make it begin to seem intelligible.” Nagel concedes, however, that at this point a systematic theory of consciousness is “a complete fantasy.”

I agree with Nagel. Science has not come remotely close to explaining how a physical event (the electro-chemical processes in the brain) can result in mental events (e.g., qualia; subjective self-awareness; intentionality; subject-object duality, etc.).

Liddle disagrees. She says that scientists have in fact identified how physical events result in mental events and she repeatedly directed us specifically to the work of Edelman and Tononi in A Universe Of Consciousness: How Matter Becomes Imagination. She gives a faint sketch of Edelman/Tononi’s argument:

But I think the essence of the answer lies in our capacity to simulate the outputs of our actions before we execute them and feedback those outputs as inputs into the action-selecting process. That allows us to both anticipate and remember in what Edelman calls a “remembered present”, in which past and possible futures are integrated.

At Liddle’s behest, I have read A Universe Of Consciousness. The authors summarize their key conclusion as follows:

Memory is a central component of the brain mechanisms that lead to consciousness. . . . the key conclusion is that whatever its form, memory itself is a system property. It cannot be equated exclusively with circuitry, with synaptic changes, with biochemistry, with value constraints, or with behavioral dynamics. Instead, it is the dynamic result of the interactions of all these factors acting together, serving to select an output that repeats a performance or an act.

As anyone with any experience in this area would have suspected, Edelman and Tononi identify consciousness as an emergent property. But, according to Liddle, they have gone a step further and identified at least some of the details of how consciousness arose from chemicals. Could this really be the case? Thomas Nagel has been among the most famous and influential philosophers of mind since the early 70’s. He says that a systematic theory of consciousness is “a complete fantasy.” Does Elizabeth Liddle know something that Nagel doesn’t?

You will probably not be surprised to learn that the answer to that question is “no.” But don’t take my word for it. In his review of A Universe Of Consciousness for Nature, Raymond J. Dolan wrote: “Explaining consciousness has become the Holy Grail of modern neuroscience. Any reckoning on who has found the true path is surely premature.”

In his review for The Guardian Steven Poole wrote:

Few people these days seriously doubt that consciousness arises solely from physical activity inside our skulls. But the big question is how this happens. Why does matter arranged in this way, and not others, give rise to minds? This is a question that Gerard Edelman and Giulio Tononi signally fail to answer, despite the grand promise of their subtitle.

Where has Liddle gone wrong? I can give no better answer than UD commenter Box, who wrote in that same exchange:

The book doesn’t help you at all, it’s a classic example of the good old cum hoc ergo propter hoc – ‘correlation is causation fallacy’. Evidence is provided suggestive of consciousness being *associated* with interconnected regions of the brain. And from this, Edelman and Tononi conclude that consciousness *arises* from the brain. IOW no mechanism that describes how to get from chemicals to consciousness, but a questionable cause logical fallacy instead.

In other words, Edelman and Tononi have asserted as an explanation exactly what Nagel said does not count as a genuine explanation – a gigantic set of inexplicable correlations.

The issue here is really very very simple. And for that reason I am always amazed when highly educated and articulate people like Liddle utterly fail to grasp it. I will try one more time to lay it out step by step.

1. Merely identifying a putative cause is not an explanation.

2. To count as an explanation, one must also give some understanding of why the putative cause produces the effect.

3. Asserting that physical brain state “A” exists (whatever “A” happens to be) and consciousness exists merely identifies a correlation.

4. For physical brain state A to count as an explanation of consciousness, one must also provide an understanding of why that physical event gave rise to that mental event.

5. This has never been done; no one has come close to doing it. There is good reason to believe it is not, in principle, possible to do it.

Comments
There you again. Obviously, you don’t read my posts.
C'mon Box, keep up. That's a quote of my remark at 69, posted three days ago, illustrating that my concern all along has been that dualism does no explanatory work - concern with what an "immaterial mind" explains, not what explains an immaterial mind.Reciprocating Bill
May 7, 2015
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Reciprocating Bill: How do immaterial minds create consciousness? You’ve no idea.
There you again. Obviously, you don't read my posts.Box
May 7, 2015
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Box:
Now RB thinks that it follows from what I said that my answer would be “It cannot be explained in principle”.
I'm afraid it's your non-sequetur, Box. I've been remarking on the explanatory emptiness of dualism - it's inability to explain anything - from my first comment. "At the same time, postulating dualism, and “an immaterial mind,” offers exactly zero explanation for the presence of these human endowments and their absence in mice. Moreover, it is as helpless before the “hard problem” as any materialistic explanation – and offers no hooks from which to bootstrap scientific investigation into that problem." "How do immaterial minds create consciousness? You’ve no idea. How do immaterial minds interact with material objects (like brains) and impact their functioning? You’ve not the slightest. How do material brains interact with immaterial minds? No clue. What determines whether an object or organism has an immaterial mind? You’ll pass on that. Why can’t rocks have immaterial minds? Comments on this thread are closed." "To then “explain” those phenomena in nonphysical terms becomes essentially a exercise in tautology. But how or why that might be the case, or how to make that notion do any work, no one has clue." Your remark, directed to me in response to one of the above:
If by “explained” is meant ‘reducible to parts’ then what has been identified by a theory as ‘primordial datum’ cannot be explained—reduced to parts—by definition.
...is, of course, a complete non-sequetur. And it's yours.Reciprocating Bill
May 7, 2015
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Follow-up #146, Again, I have stated that any "primordial datum" of any theory cannot be explained by parts—because it is supposed to have none. IOW it's irreducible to anything else—that's what "primordial datum" means. This goes for the 'atoms' of the ancient atomists and this goes for the 'fermions and bosons' of Rosenberg. It also goes for 'consciousness' of some versions of dualism. Now, Reciprocating Bill takes what I said as meaning that all sorts of things and interactions cannot be explained in principle.
RB: How do material brains interact with immaterial minds?
Now RB thinks that it follows from what I said that my answer would be "It cannot be explained in principle". I cannot understand why RB thinks this is so. Unless RB believes that I hold that the interaction between material brains and the immaterial mind is a primordial datum—which I have not indicated in any shape or form—this does not make sense at all.Box
May 7, 2015
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RB: How do immaterial minds interact with material objects (like brains) and impact their functioning?
There are theories about this from spiritual (or informational) monism that only appears as dualistic representations, to quantum wave-collapse. IOW, your question might be a big non-question upon a proper understanding of what "matter" is (entangled, quantum or infromational fields) and what mind may be (a conscious, observational locus that collapses such fields into perceived states appearing as arrangements of matter). Under such perspectives, the difference between immaterial and material is only a matter of aspect, not kind.William J Murray
May 7, 2015
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Reciprocating Bill,
RB: How do immaterial minds create consciousness?
We are running around in circles. This will be my last attempt to explain this fairly simple principle: * if consciousness is posited as primordial datum it is not created by anything else *. IOW if consciousness is a primordial datum, then it is not produced, created, constituted by something else—just like the atoms of the ancient Atomists, and Rosenberg's fermions and bosons (see #144). As a primordial datum consciousness is irreducible to matter, 'immaterial mind' or whatever.
RB: How do immaterial minds interact with material objects (like brains) and impact their functioning?
Now this is a valid question which may pose a problem for dualists. However it is noteworthy that our view on what "matter" is is radically changed since the time the interaction problem came up. So, today, it is no longer clear what your question entails. - - - BTW I don’t regard myself a dualist. I’m a monist who holds that everything is ultimately spiritual.Box
May 7, 2015
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Box:
Summing up: a primordial datum cannot be explained in principle.
Let’s try out your response on the questions I posed to Barry upthread. RB: How do immaterial minds create consciousness? Box: It cannot be explained in principle. RB: How do immaterial minds interact with material objects (like brains) and impact their functioning? Box: It cannot be explained in principle. RB: How do material brains interact with immaterial minds? Box: It cannot be explained in principle. RB: What determines whether an object or organism has an immaterial mind? Box: It cannot be explained in principle. RB: Why can’t rocks have immaterial minds? Box: It cannot be explained in principle. RB: Postulating dualism, and “an immaterial mind,” offers exactly zero explanation for the presence of these human endowments and their absence in mice. Moreover, it is as helpless before the “hard problem” as any materialistic explanation – and offers no hooks from which to bootstrap scientific investigation into that problem. Barry: Unless dualism is true and an immaterial mind exists, in which case it would be the explanation.Reciprocating Bill
May 7, 2015
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Reciprocating Bill: To then “explain” those phenomena in nonphysical terms becomes essentially a exercise in tautology.
If by "explained" is meant 'reducible to parts' then what has been identified by a theory as 'primordial datum' cannot be explained—reduced to parts—by definition. This was also the idea behind the ancient theory "atomism". Here the primordial datum is simple, minute, indivisible, and indestructible particles which are posited as the basic components of the entire universe. How are these atoms and their properties explained (reduced)? They are not, since they are irreducible—'atom' means 'uncuttable'. According to Rosenberg:
The basic things everything is made up of are fermions and bosons. That’s it. Perhaps you thought the basic stuff was electrons, protons, neutrons, and maybe quarks. Besides those particles, there are also leptons, neutrinos, muons, tauons, gluons, photons, and probably a lot more elementary particles that make up stuff. But all these elementary particles come in only one of two kinds. Some of them are fermions; the rest are bosons. There is no third kind of subatomic particle. And everything is made up of these two kinds of things. Roughly speaking, fermions are what matter is composed of, while bosons are what fields of force are made of. [Rosenberg, Chapter 2, THE ATHEIST’S GUIDE TO REALITY]
BTW any material primordial datum is incoherent with the universe having a beginning. Logically the ancient Atomists assumed an eternal universe. Summing up: a primordial datum cannot be explained in principle. - - - Surely most dualists ground consciousness (and matter) in the "ultimate" primordial datum: God.Box
May 7, 2015
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Box:
It is simply a property of consciousness
Exactly the response I expected, and predicted: "Ultimately, I suspect that the sequestering of phenomena such as intentionality, consciousness and agency within nonphysical mentality works for many simply because such qualities are smuggled in as the immaterial mind ...is defined as that which nonphysically bears intentionality, consciousness, agency, etc., independent of material states. To then “explain” those phenomena in nonphysical terms becomes essentially a exercise in tautology. But how or why that might be the case, or how to make that notion do any work, no one has clue."Reciprocating Bill
May 6, 2015
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RB: That is because no one has the slightest notion of how a nonphysical mentality might instantiate intentional states (or consciousness, or selfhood, or agency), (...)
If we conclude that consciousness is irreducible to matter and therefor is something else entirely, then it does not follow that the same questions wrt matter apply to consciousness. Consciousness—from a dualist perspective—is often regarded as a primordial datum; an irreducible whole, not constituted/produced by parts—unlike e.g. the brain.
RB: How is a nonphysical mentality “about” something else?
It is simply a property of consciousness. "Aboutness" is troublesome for materialistic accounts of the mind—neurons are just a clump of matter, they are not intrinsically about your mom—it is incoherent to assume that the same problem applies to 'unextended in time and space' consciousness under dualism. Similarly we do not ask how much consciousness weighs or how it copes with the effects of 2nd law and gravity.Box
May 6, 2015
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"But that’s a specific philosophical view about knowledge. Theism is a specific case of justificationism. As such, your argument is narrow in scope. it does not appeal to me because what I want from ideas are their content, not their providence." Provenance?tgpeeler
May 5, 2015
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RB:
There is no science of non-physical mentality, nor do i see how there could be one.
The evidence is there though, if you're willing to open your eyes to see it. The problem is that materialists are blind to it and willingly so. Just yesterday a friend sent me this link: Spontaneous Events Drive Brain Functional Connectivity? Here, the researchers use the word "spontaneous" to indicate that they have clear evidence for an effect but they have no idea what is causing it. They have no explanation and they never will. What they are observing, IMO, is the subject's consciousness (spirit) moving its attention from one thing to another. The mainstream scientific culture is a dictatorship of blind fools, mostly old fools with calcified brains. Wearing blinders is not a good way to conduct science. It leads to wrong conclusions and, in the end, stupidity. But that's OK with me. I'll just keep moving right along.Mapou
May 5, 2015
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RB:
There is no science of non-physical mentality, nor do i see how there could be one.
There is no science of a purely physical (chemical) mentality, nor do I see how there could be one. The physio-chemical explanation for life is non-existent and if it can't account for life then it can't account for consciousness.Joe
May 5, 2015
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Searle speaks for himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nTQnvGxEXw&spfreload=10Reciprocating Bill
May 5, 2015
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In Reference and Reality Hilary Putnam parenthetically remarked, "As Wittgenstein often pointed out, a philosophical problem is typically generated in this way: certain assumptions are made which are taken for granted by all sides in the subsequent discussion" I've often genuinely wondered why anyone believes that invoking dualism, and in particular an ontology that includes something like nonphysical mental states, solves the problems of consciousness, intentionality and so forth. It's a fair question to ask how physical systems (like brains and their states) can be "about" other states, can be conscious, etc. But to respond to this difficulty by invoking a dualist ontology, and then assigning intentionality (and or consciousness, or selfhood, or agency) to the nonphysical side of one's dualistic coin is to my ear an absolutely empty response. That is because no one has the slightest notion of how a nonphysical mentality might instantiate intentional states (or consciousness, or selfhood, or agency), or how one might go about investigating those questions. How is a nonphysical mentality "about" something else? At least brain states offer many intriguing hooks vis the complex nature of sensory consciousness and representation that may or may not yield insights into this question as cognitive neuroscience progresses. There is no science of non-physical mentality, nor do i see how there could be one. Ultimately, I suspect that the sequestering of phenomena such as intentionality, consciousness and agency within nonphysical mentality works for many simply because such qualities are smuggled in as the immaterial mind (or soul, or intelligence, or agency, or consciousness, or whatever) is defined as that which nonphysically bears intentionality, consciousness, agency, etc. independent of material states, To then "explain" those phenomena in nonphysical terms becomes essentially a exercise in tautology. But how or why that might be the case, or how to make that notion do any work, no one has clue.Reciprocating Bill
May 5, 2015
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Popperian @ 122 Actually, it is you who have missed the point, no matter how better we engineer the computers, reducing there size, power consumption etc. it will still be DESIGNED! CheersCross
May 5, 2015
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Silver Asiatic @ 121 Thanks for the correction, it all sounds so simple now! ;) CheersCross
May 5, 2015
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Andre @ 117, 123 Thanks for the links, I'm sure Popperian will not be swayed though. Andre @ 130 "Worse still I recently reinstalled DOS and try as I might I could not get the mouse to work no tweaking worked because you see DOS just does not know USB. So when biological hardware changes why do Darwinists assume that both the hardware and software will still work?" Good point, it's why I know they will never come up with a plausible OOL explanation, the hardware and software cannot appear at the same time, the odds are staggering. The DNA code and the hardware to process it, along with the immediate ability to reproduce just did not happen without design. Any computer chip is designed in hardware first, then the software is written, it can't be any other way. CheersCross
May 5, 2015
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Barry, Bill Vallicella says just about the exact same thing:
As I said earlier, John R. Searle is a great philosophical critic. Armed with muscular prose, common sense, and a surly (Searle-ly?) attitude, he shreds the sophistry of Dennett and Co. (...) (...) The last quotation explains why Searle is not a materialist: he is not trying to reductively identify something essentially first-personal with something essentially third-personal. So far so good. But then why does he fight shy of being called a dualist? Even if he is not a substance dualist like Descartes, why does he not own up to being a property dualist? The answer, I am afraid, is that he is in the grip of the ideology of scientific naturalism. In contemporary philosophy of mind, nothing is worse than to get yourself called a dualist. For then you are an unscientific superstitious fellow who believes in spook stuff, ghosts in machines, and worse. Next stop: the Twilight Zone.
Box
May 5, 2015
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Box, Feser has it about right regarding Searle:
Searle is also an effective critic of other materialist theories of the mind. But though he rejects all extant forms of materialism, Searle also famously denies being any kind of dualist. Still, his critics regularly insist that his views nevertheless entail dualism whether he realizes it or not, and that this suffices to show that they are mistaken. In short, Searle says: “My arguments are correct, and they do not entail dualism,” while his critics say: “Searle’s arguments do entail dualism, and therefore they are incorrect.” In my view both sides are partly right and partly wrong: Searle’s arguments are correct, and they do entail dualism.
Barry Arrington
May 5, 2015
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Barry Arrington: Searle has contributed enormously to these issues. His Chinese Room experiment is utterly brilliant.
I have been reading up on Searle, specifically on syntax and semantics being "observer-relative". It's an important argument against "prominent theories of mind that hold that human cognition generally is computational" (stanford.edu). I cannot help but noticing that these are testing times .... times in which we are forced to argue the blatantly obvious—that rationality is based on understanding (observer-relative) and cannot exist without consciousness.Box
May 5, 2015
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I'm not a programmer but my best coding work was back in the days when we had to optimize DOS by changing the config.sys and autoexec.bat files. I wonder how long it will take for this command to write itself LH C:MOUSEMOUSE.EXE Worse still I recently reinstalled DOS and try as I might I could not get the mouse to work no tweaking worked because you see DOS just does not know USB. So when biological hardware changes why do Darwinists assume that both the hardware and software will still work?Andre
May 5, 2015
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Popperian: the law of computation tells us that it’s possible to emulate any physical object at an arbitrary level of detail Law of Computation?Zachriel
May 5, 2015
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Popperian #124: That’s what it means to say a computer is universal.
Computers are incapable of understanding (semantics).
Searle (1984) presents a three premise argument that because syntax is not sufficient for semantics, programs cannot produce minds.
(1)Programs are purely formal (syntactic). (2)Human minds have mental contents (semantics). (3)Syntax by itself is neither constitutive of, nor sufficient for, semantic content. Therefore, programs by themselves are not constitutive of nor sufficient for minds.
The Chinese Room thought experiment itself is the support for the third premise. The claim that syntactic manipulation is not sufficient for meaning or thought is a significant issue, with wider implications than AI, or attributions of understanding. Prominent theories of mind hold that human cognition generally is computational. In one form, it is held that thought involves operations on symbols in virtue of their physical properties. On an alternative connectionist account, the computations are on “subsymbolic” states. If Searle is right, not only Strong AI but also these main approaches to understanding human cognition are misguided. [my emphasis] - - - [source: Stanford.edu]
Box
May 5, 2015
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Elizabeth on Emergence:
That is what emergence is all about – that an object can exist that has properties – including capacities – that its constituent parts do not, and vice versa. This is straightforwardly true: sodium choride has properties that neither atomic sodium nor atomic chlorine have, and vice versa, and a solution of salt contains ions that have properties not possessed by either the salt crystal or the atomic elements.
We have no physical/material explanation for this. So we call it emergence. Magic. Poofery! It just makes one wonder at the design if the physical elements that when combined, magical new properties appear.Mung
May 5, 2015
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KF:
Responsible freedom and linked rationality are not equal to blind chance or mechanical necessity. Categorically distinct.
Yes, KF. We know that is your position. Nor am I suggesting that intuition is not an important part of the processes. But intuitions are just the starting point. Popper's view, as is mine, is that we start with conjectures, intuitions, etc. But we then criticize those creative ideas. As I've pointed out elsewhere, adding a God to the mix doesn't improve the problem. All it does is attempt to justify rationally and our perception of making choices in a justificationist sense. But that's bad philosophy. And that's why I'm not a theist. Is God free to make choices? Is he rational? if so, how are they justified, etc. All this does is push the problem up a level without improving it. Also, in the case of intuition, I'm not a solipsist just because it conflicts with my intuition or common sense. I'm not a solipsist because solipsism is also a convolved elaboration of reality. Solipsists accept all of the observations we do as a realist. This includes objects obeying the laws of physics, other people disagreeing with us about Solipsism, etc. As such all of these observations are "compatible" with Solipsism and one could just as well claim that those observations "prove" it is true, just as much as Realism. The key difference is that Solipsists add one more thing to Realism that does nothing at all but negate Realism itself, which is our best, current accepted explanation for all of those observations: they are just facets of our internal selves. Solipsism doesn't explain why object like facets of my internal self would follow laws of physics-like facets of my internal self, or why other conscious being-like facets of my internal self would disagree with me on Solipsism. It one fell swoop, it negates all of these explanations while simultaneously explaining nothing itself. IOW, Solipsism is a convoluted elaboration of Realism. As such, I reject it. ID suffers from the very same problem, as it accepts all of the observations that Dariwnism does. But it adds one thing more that does nothing but negate our current, best explanation. Darwinsm only appears to be true, but an abstract designer with no limitations did it. ID doesn't explain opportunity and means, which includes the knowledge of how, motive, etc. In one fell swoop, it negates the underlying explanation of Darwinism while simultaneously explaining nothing itself.Popperian
May 5, 2015
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Popperian, emulate and presumably behaviourally. Responsible freedom and linked rationality are not equal to blind chance or mechanical necessity. Categorically distinct. And without such freedom and responsibility, rationality collapses. The view that attempts such therefore is self referentially incoherent and self falsifying. KFkairosfocus
May 5, 2015
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Box:
Kairosfocus quotes Reppert in post#2 pointing out the divide between chemical coherence and rational/propositional coherence, but the point I’m trying to convey here is even more fundamental: without consciousness no rationality whatsoever.
Again, the law of computation tells us that it's possible to emulate any physical object at an arbitrary level of detail. Cogs are unlike transistors which are unlike quantum bits. Yet, they can each be used to perform the same computations. That's what it means to say a computer is universal.
NetResearchGuy #45 makes a similar argument: you need consciousness to begin with
NetResearchGuy wrote:
The argument I have against conscious software is that presumably it resulted from taking a simpler non-conscious software program, and adding some type of code, some sort of machine instruction that switched its status from non conscious to conscious. For example incrementing a variable or storing to a location in memory. The problem is that it’s nonsensical to conceive of a single line code modification that would have that sort of power.
Yet, that's exactly what happens in the case of building a universal turning machine. Either a computer is universal or it is not. Either it has the requisite computations for Turing completeness or it does not. Adding a single additional specific computation to a system that is not Turing complete can expand its reach to universality, which is a powerful leap. Is that nonsensical too?
More usually, materialists instead claim that consciousness isn’t binary, but a continuum (EL claimed this in another post)..
I would disagree. For example, regular expressions are a rare example of a language that is very powerful, yet stops short at making the leap to universality. Regular expressions can solve some of the problems that UTMs can, but its reach is universal. So, while there is overlap in abilities, this doesn't mean that all languages are universal. The same can be said for consciousness. The problem is, there is no clear definition in regards to conciseness, as there is with Turing completeness.
According to EL, our brain is just that software program with a LOT more patterns and feedback loops, but ultimately just reducible to those patterns and feedback loops. My argument is that no matter how many similar patterns and feedback loops you add to the software program, it’s not conscious. The problem is there is no whole or self to gather all the feedback loops into a single conscious unit. The feedback loop theory is merely a regress and makes zero progress on identifying where the whole or self comes from..
First, we're not networked together. My feedback loops are isolated from your feedback loop. When we figure out how to bridge the gap, we can make progress on the issue. Second, while I cannot speak for Elizabeth, that is a gross simplification of my position. Feedback loops would be necessary for being able to detect changes, but not enough for conciseness to be present. But, again, not everyone agrees on what consciousness is, unlike Turning completeness. Any such consensus will be due to, in part, a philosophical breakthrough about what it means to be a person and that actually solves problems.Popperian
May 5, 2015
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From the article I posted how friggen cool is this biomimicry..... Cognitive Computers To build chips “at least as ‘smart’ [as a] housefly,” researchers in IBM’s cognitive computing group are exploring processors that ditch the calculator like Von Neumann architecture. Instead, as Pavlus explains, they “mimic cortical columns in the mammalian brain, which process, transmit and store information in the same structure, with no bus bottlenecking the connection.” The result is IBM’s TrueNorth chip, in which five billion transistors model a million neurons linked by 256 million synaptic connections. “What that arrangement buys,” Pavlus writes, “is real-time pattern-matching performance on the energy budget of a laser pointer.” http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/moores-law-computing-after-moores-law/ Reverse engineering means only one thing........ It was engineered to start off with :)Andre
May 5, 2015
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@cross First, You're assuming we need even faster and more powerful computers before we could achieve artificial intelligence. But this isn't necessarily the case. Blue Brain is designed to simulate a physical brain. That is, it's goal isnt just artificial intelligence, but to also understand how our brains works, including research on mental illnesses, etc. Emulating a physical system has significant overhead, especially one that is so different from silicon computers. If our goal was merely artificial intelligence, it's not clear that modeling those physical features would be necessary. In fact, I'd suggest what's holding us back from developing hard AI is a philosophical breakthrough, not computer power. A slower computer would be just as intelligent. You could dial down its clock speed and it would still create explanations- just slower. Second, you conveniently ignored the actual substance of my comment. Specifically, the simulation is possible today because we have developed a high level explanation about how synapses form. This allows the model to be significantly easier to set up, as compaired to requiring a one to one mapping of neurons in a real neocortical column. IOW, placement can be random, with a few exceptions, yet still get the same results.Popperian
May 5, 2015
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