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Climate Alarmism Has Undermined Science Itself

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What inclines me now to think that you may be right in regarding it as the central and radical lie in the whole web of falsehood that now governs our lives, is not so much your arguments against it as the fanatical and twisted attitudes of its defenders.

C.S. Lewis

The “it” to which Lewis was referring was evolution. Today, “it” could well be climate alarmists.

According to this paper the climate alarmists are undermining science itself:

Scientists don’t like this lèse majesté, of course. But it’s the citizen science that the internet has long promised. This is what eavesdropping on science should be like—following the twists and turns of each story, the ripostes and counter-ripostes, making up your own mind based on the evidence. And that is precisely what the non-sceptical side just does not get. Its bloggers are almost universally wearily condescending. They are behaving like sixteenth-century priests who do not think the Bible should be translated into English. . . .

Scandal after scandal

The Cook paper is one of many scandals and blunders in climate science. There was the occasion in 2012 when the climate scientist Peter Gleick stole the identity of a member of the (sceptical) Heartland Institute’s board of directors, leaked confidential documents, and included also a “strategy memo” purporting to describe Heartland’s plans, which was a straight forgery. Gleick apologised but continues to be a respected climate scientist.There was Stephan Lewandowsky, then at the University of Western Australia, who published a paper titled “NASA faked the moon landing therefore [climate] science is a hoax”, from which readers might have deduced, in the words of a Guardian headline, that “new research finds that sceptics also tend to support conspiracy theories such as the moon landing being faked”. Yet in fact in the survey for the paper, only ten respondents out of 1145 thought that the moon landing was a hoax, and seven of those did not think climate change was a hoax. A particular irony here is that two of the men who have actually been to the moon are vocal climate sceptics: Harrison Schmitt and Buzz Aldrin.

It took years of persistence before physicist Jonathan Jones and political scientist Ruth Dixon even managed to get into print (in March this year) a detailed and devastating critique of the Lewandowsky article’s methodological flaws and bizarre reasoning, with one journal allowing Lewandowsky himself to oppose the publication of their riposte. Lewandowsky published a later paper claiming that the reactions to his previous paper proved he was right, but it was so flawed it had to be retracted.

If these examples of odd scientific practice sound too obscure, try Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC for thirteen years and often described as the “world’s top climate scientist”. He once dismissed as “voodoo science” an official report by India’s leading glaciologist, Vijay Raina, because it had challenged a bizarre claim in an IPCC report (citing a WWF report which cited an article in New Scientist), that the Himalayan glaciers would be gone by 2035. The claim originated with Syed Hasnain, who subsequently took a job at The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI), the Delhi-based company of which Dr Pachauri is director-general, and there his glacier claim enabled TERI to win a share of a three-million-euro grant from the European Union. No wonder Dr Pachauri might well not have wanted the 2035 claim challenged.

Yet Raina was right, it proved to be the IPCC’s most high-profile blunder, and Dr Pachauri had to withdraw both it and his “voodoo” remark. The scandal led to a highly critical report into the IPCC by several of the world’s top science academics, which recommended among other things that the IPCC chair stand down after one term. Dr Pachauri ignored this, kept his job, toured the world while urging others not to, and published a novel, with steamy scenes of seduction of an older man by young women. (He resigned this year following criminal allegations of sexual misconduct with a twenty-nine-year-old female employee, which he denies, and which are subject to police investigation.)

Yet the climate bloggers who constantly smear sceptics managed to avoid even reporting most of this. If you want to follow Dr Pachauri’s career you have to rely on a tireless but self-funded investigative journalist: the Canadian Donna Laframboise. In her chapter in The Facts, Laframboise details how Dr Pachauri has managed to get the world to describe him as a Nobel laureate, even though this is simply not true.

Notice, by the way, how many of these fearless free-thinkers prepared to tell emperors they are naked are women. Susan Crockford, a Canadian zoologist, has steadfastly exposed the myth-making that goes into polar bear alarmism, to the obvious discomfort of the doyens of that field. Jennifer Marohasy of Central Queensland University, by persistently asking why cooling trends recorded at Australian weather stations with no recorded moves were being altered to warming trends, has embarrassed the Bureau of Meteorology into a review of their procedures. Her chapter in The Facts underlines the failure of computer models to predict rainfall.

But male sceptics have scored successes too. There was the case of the paper the IPCC relied upon to show that urban heat islands (the fact that cities are generally warmer than the surrounding countryside, so urbanisation causes local, but not global, warming) had not exaggerated recent warming. This paper turned out—as the sceptic Doug Keenan proved—to be based partly on non-existent data on forty-nine weather stations in China. When corrected, it emerged that the urban heat island effect actually accounted for 40 per cent of the warming in China.

There was the Scandinavian lake sediment core that was cited as evidence of sudden recent warming, when it was actually being used “upside down”—the opposite way the authors of the study thought it should be used: so if anything it showed cooling.

There was the graph showing unprecedented recent warming that turned out to depend on just one larch tree in the Yamal Peninsula in Siberia.

There was the southern hemisphere hockey-stick that had been created by the omission of inconvenient data series.

There was the infamous “hide the decline” incident when a tree-ring-derived graph had been truncated to disguise the fact that it seemed to show recent cooling.

And of course there was the mother of all scandals, the “hockey stick” itself: a graph that purported to show the warming of the last three decades of the twentieth century as unprecedented in a millennium, a graph that the IPCC was so thrilled with that it published it six times in its third assessment report and displayed it behind the IPCC chairman at his press conference. It was a graph that persuaded me to abandon my scepticism (until I found out about its flaws), because I thought Nature magazine would never have published it without checking. And it is a graph that was systematically shown by Steven McIntyre and Ross McKitrick to be wholly misleading, as McKitrick recounts in glorious detail in his chapter in The Facts.

Its hockey-stick shape depended heavily on one set of data from bristlecone pine trees in the American south-west, enhanced by a statistical approach to over-emphasise some 200 times any hockey-stick shaped graph. Yet bristlecone tree-rings do not, according to those who collected the data, reflect temperature at all. What is more, the scientist behind the original paper, Michael Mann, had known all along that his data depended heavily on these inappropriate trees and a few other series, because when finally prevailed upon to release his data he accidentally included a file called “censored” that proved as much: he had tested the effect of removing the bristlecone pine series and one other, and found that the hockey-stick shape disappeared.

In March this year Dr Mann published a paper claiming the Gulf Stream was slowing down. This garnered headlines all across the world. Astonishingly, his evidence that the Gulf Stream is slowing down came not from the Gulf Stream, but from “proxies” which included—yes—bristlecone pine trees in Arizona, upside-down lake sediments in Scandinavia and larch trees in Siberia.

Comments
Let me apologize for not returning to this thread earlier. The last time I looked in briefly, my posts didn’t seem to be generating the kind of interest I’d hoped. Charles @ 13
Seversky wants to be right. So do I. I *absolutely hate* being wrong. The difference is, I hate being wrong so much, that I check my facts as best I can before committing myself (and catch a lot of my own mistakes) and I’m willing to admit and correct my mistakes so I can actually *get* right when I’ve been wrong.
Of course, we would all like to be right but most of us understand that you are only going to find the certainty you clearly crave in formal systems like mathematics and logic. In the real world we have to be satisfied with a range of interpretations and degrees of confidence. As for being willing to change your view in light of contradictory evidence, I would hope it’s true but I have my doubts. I see too much similarity between climate change skeptics and the conspiracy theorists who believe the CIA and/or Mossad engineered the 9/11 attacks. Global warming is a hoax being foisted on us by a conspiracy of academic and political elites bent on - what - world domination? And 9/11 was rigged by secret government agencies bent on [insert pet conspiracy theory here] I find the idea of climatologists being bent on world domination quite intriguing, though. I see possible villain for the next Bond movie - especially if he likes cats. Oh, and going back to uncited quotes, I note that my post at 5, quoting from George Monbiot’s (cited) research into the political and corporate interests that are heavily invested in the denialist movement has been sedulously ignored. I wonder why that is?Seversky
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 71:
Sure we did. Seversky provided four quotes @4;
lol - But Seversky didn't provide cites and links @4. You provided a link @24 but didn't provide Seversky's quotes. You didn't get it together, Seversky's quotes with your source links, until @33.Charles
June 23, 2015
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Charles: Regardless, you admit you didn’t realize what was being asked. Well, duh. That's why we apologized in @22 for presuming you wanted a substantive discussion, then provided a source for two of the quotes @24. Charles: what you did not distinguish or provide was what quote was expected to be found at that source. Sure we did. Seversky provided four quotes @4; on temperature, CO2, sea level, and polar ice mass. “The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication …” In any case, you have been provided sources for the quotes quite some time ago, as well as support for the content of the posts, which you have ignored. Not sure what you are hoping to accomplish.Zachriel
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 69
We didn’t realize that you wanted to have a discussion ad nauseam about the source of the statements provided @4, and not their content.
The source, the author, and the content. It could have been a research paper; it could have been a PR release from some university; it could have been a blog post; it could have been a news article; and it could have been an agency website. Seversky provided no citations for his quote, and he had arguably denied due credit to the rightful authors. Regardless, you admit you didn't realize what was being asked. And in @24, you still didn't realize what was being asked because while it was obvious your source was a NASA website, what you did not distinguish or provide was what quote was expected to be found at that source. You used again the same previously mis-cited topics of sea level and polar ice mass.
When you clarified your question, we responded with the source for two of the quotes @24, and a third @38.
And here is where you start lying again. I "clarified" what is expected in a cite after your post @24, specifically in @32, wherein I told you to copy & paste the author's quote you were citing and then include the source; no topic headers, no ambiguity of what was expected of a cite, which you then did provide in @33. You did not provide a legitimate cite of the author's quoted text until @33 and you even admitted in @33:
We provided sources for two of the exact quotes
Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA’s Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost 150 to 250 cubic kilometers (36 to 60 cubic miles) of ice per year between 2002 and 2006, while Antarctica lost about 152 cubic kilometers (36 cubic miles) of ice between 2002 and 2005. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
.
Anyone not stuck on stupid can compare your post @24, Seversky's post @4 and your post @33 and see the distinctions.Charles
June 23, 2015
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Charles: Instead of the requested cites for Seversky’s quotes, you sourced “topic headers” with your links in @14, @16. That's right. We naturally assumed you were interested in substantiated data that can be fact checked, mostly because you asked for "substantiated data that can be fact checked." We didn't realize that you wanted to have a discussion ad nauseam about the source of the statements provided @4, and not their content. When you clarified your question, we responded with the source for two of the quotes @24, and a third @38. Charles: You hadn’t distinguished the sea level and polar ice mass “topic headers” in @24 Sure we did. "The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication ..." statement, something stated state, set down explicitlyZachriel
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 67 Instead of the requested cites for Seversky's quotes, you sourced "topic headers" with your links in @14, @16. Note your sea level and polar ice "topics":
Zachriel @ 14: Temperature and CO2 http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/..0-2009.gif Sea level rise http://www.epa.gov/climatechan..level.html Polar ice cap mass loss http://nca2014.globalchange.go..oss-hi.jpg Zachriel @ 16 CO2 http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/ Surface temperature http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ Sea level rise http://www.star.nesdis.noaa.go..global.php Polar ice cap mass declines http://www.nature.com/ngeo/jou..o1874.html
And by @24 you were still arguing that your sourced topics were the cites I requested (which you now admit they weren't), and still didn't even understand the significance or purpose of cites:
Zachriel @ 24 We provided support for the substance of the statements. Who cares if the quotes are from the primary literature, or from secondary sources, as long as they accurately portray the science.
So when you argue...
Zachriel @24: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same article also supports the temperature and CO2 statements. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
This is a statement which sources the two statements, including a link to the source.
You are still citing what appear to be your same sea level and polar ice mass "topic headers" as you sourced in @14 & @16, rather than the exact quotes from Seversky's post @4. And I had even searched on "polar ice mass" and just "polar" but those topics aren't found at your source. But then you've already admitted you don't care where quotes are from. You hadn't distinguished the sea level and polar ice mass "topic headers" in @24 as different from those in @14 & @16 (which is why stating what author's quote is being cited is important). You had carelessly used "topic headers" to refer to multiple different sources, but expected me to distinguish what you would not. And you plainly didn't know how to properly cite an author's quote until I instructed you in @32, and only then in @33 you responded with credible cites for just two of the requested 4 quotes.Charles
June 23, 2015
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Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century.
This is a statement about sea level.
The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA’s Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost 150 to 250 cubic kilometers (36 to 60 cubic miles) of ice per year between 2002 and 2006, while Antarctica lost about 152 cubic kilometers (36 cubic miles) of ice between 2002 and 2005.
This is a statement about polar ice mass.
Zachriel @24: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same article also supports the temperature and CO2 statements. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
This is a statement which sources the two statements, including a link to the source.Zachriel
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 65
Zachriel @24: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication
I'll type very slowly so you can understand. Your text string above ("topic headers" you called them) does not match Seversky's text strings below. Seversky @ 4
Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century.
The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA’s Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost 150 to 250 cubic kilometers (36 to 60 cubic miles) of ice per year between 2002 and 2006, while Antarctica lost about 152 cubic kilometers (36 cubic miles) of ice between 2002 and 2005.
Again, typing very, very slowly. Notice now how in your post @ 33, you finally (after I explained in post 32) managed to quote exactly the author's text and provided the source for each. See how your copied text strings in @33 match Severy's quoted text in @4:
We provided sources for two of the exact quotes.
Global sea level rose about 17 centimeters (6.7 inches) in the last century. The rate in the last decade, however, is nearly double that of the last century. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
The Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets have decreased in mass. Data from NASA’s Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment show Greenland lost 150 to 250 cubic kilometers (36 to 60 cubic miles) of ice per year between 2002 and 2006, while Antarctica lost about 152 cubic kilometers (36 cubic miles) of ice between 2002 and 2005. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
You finally provided "sources for two of the exact quotes" in your post @33. That is what "cites" look like. But in your post @24 you sourced more of your "topic headers". Now, if Seversky and his quoted author had used the exact same "topic headers" as you did, then you'd have a point. But they didn't, and so you don't. That's what "stuck on stupid" looks like.Charles
June 23, 2015
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Charles: No Zachriel @24: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication ...Zachriel
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 63
Yes, you clarified your meaning in @21, and we responded in @24.
No, as I said in my post @62: It wasn’t until your post @33 that you actually quoted 2 of Serversky’s statements and provided the cites for them, and even that was in response to my educating you in my post @32 to “Copy and past into your next comment all four “exact quotes” from Seversky’s @4 and then show those exact same quotes from your cites.” A cite is associated with a specific quote (Seversky's), not your "topic headers". It is where the original author's exact text as quoted is found. But your exact words in @24 were:
The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same article also supports the temperature and CO2 statements.
You plainly still don't know what a cite is and when it is to be used, and your failure to provide the quoted text @24 requires guesswork on the part of the reader, and your track record of obfuscation doesn't warrant investing in guesswork. I never asked for "support". I asked for cites as to where the author's text for all 4 exact quotes may be found, not sources for your "topic headers".
Ad hominem is boring.
Indeed, you are a boring liar.Charles
June 23, 2015
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Charles: So you now admit I did ask for sources {for the exact quotes}. Yes, you clarified your meaning in @21, and we responded in @24. Charles: When you finally provided cites, I didn’t call you a liar for those cites. Sure you did. Note the order.
Zachriel @24: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same article also supports the temperature and CO2 statements. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Charles @30: Liar. Charles @32: Liar.
Ad hominem is boring.Zachriel
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 58
You might have simply asked for the sources, not that it matters that much.
Zachriel @ 61
You said you were asking for sources for the quotes.
So you now admit I did ask for sources.
You said you were asking for sources for the quotes. Two were provided. You responded “Liar.”
Indeed in my post @21 I responded: "Liar. Seversky was aksed for where his quotes came from. And you still haven’t provided cites for where Seversky lifted his quotes." because you falsely claimed to have provided those cites. It wasn't until your post @33 that you actually quoted 2 of Serversky's statements and provided the cites for them, and even that was in response to my educating you in my post @32 to "Copy and past into your next comment all four “exact quotes” from Seversky’s @4 and then show those exact same quotes from your cites." I asked for all 4 cites, you only provided 2, and I responded "I will grant that the latter two “exact quotes” paragraphs from Seversky’s @4 can be sourced to NASA/evidence as you cited in your post @23, though because you claimed it was supporting your earlier misquotes [what you later described as "topic headers" - lol] @14 and @16 I didn’t bother guessing at which quotes you claimed they supported." When you finally provided cites, I didn't call you a liar for those cites.
You continue your ad hominem even after you were provided sources for the quotes, and more important, substantive support for the content of those statements. Not sure what you hope to accomplish.
Cites for Seversky's quotes is not the same as sources for your "topic headers", but being "stuck on stupid" you're not sure of my point. But you continue to lie about my having repeatedly asked for cites of Seversky's quotes and instead you evade with sources for your "topic headers" instead of Seversky's quotes, and you lie thinking you can pass them off as the same. They're not, and you can't.Charles
June 23, 2015
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Charles: Zachriel now pretends to not know that citations were requested on Seversky’s blockquoted phrases That's clear from our exchange. We naturally assumed you wanted “substantiated data that can be fact checked." When you clarified your request, we provided sources for two of the quotes, and later a third. You said you were asking for sources for the quotes. Two were provided. You responded "Liar." We provided the sources again. You again responded "Liar." You continue your ad hominem even after you were provided sources for the quotes, and more important, substantive support for the content of those statements. Not sure what you hope to accomplish.Zachriel
June 23, 2015
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Charles: data was extracted from Hansen’s NASA GISS dataset just a few months after the climate gate emails were first leaked and everyone found out how Mann, Hansen, Jones, et. al. had been erroneously adjusting the data upwards Citation pleasevelikovskys
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 58
You might have simply asked for the sources, not that it matters that much.
You have self-servingly ignored that in my post @7 I also wrote: "But Seversky doesn’t want you to know where those particular cherries were picked off the ground. ... There’s always a reason when some alarmist doesn’t want you to follow the bread crumbs. And in my post @ 18 I wrote "Lacking any other defense, Zachriel now pretends to not know that citations were requested on Seversky’s blockquoted phrases in comment @4." So, I did ask for "where those particular cherries were picked", and for "bread crumbs to follow" and "citations on Serversky's @4". But that doesn't matter at all to someone who willfully obfuscates and feigns ignorance of both the practice of citing quoted work and what a cite actually is. But since you think you can just keep repeating lies and not get called on it, I'm gonna have to go with you being "stuck on stupid" Next up, Zachriel reinforces "stuck on stupid" with confusion over the meaning of words and repeatedly ignoring citation and source requests actually made, repeatedly.Charles
June 23, 2015
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Charles: Seversky quoted four paragraphs of someone elses work. Neither you nor Seversky (apparently) understand that when quoting some other author’s words (as in @4), it is standard practice (among intellectually honest writers) that a cite of who authored the quoted text and where it may be found also be provided. You might have simply asked for the sources, not that it matters that much. Instead, this is what you said, Charles: Do a Google search on various phrases and you’ll find various unsubstantiated blog comments, but no citations of research papers. What Seversky quoted seems to be a hodge-podge of Greenpeace and Union of Concerned Scientists opinion. But no substantiated data that can be fact checked. Leaving aside your questionable Google skills, we reasonably took your comment as a request for "substantiated data that can be fact checked," which we have repeatedly provided, and which you have repeatedly ignored.Zachriel
June 23, 2015
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Zachriel @ 55
Seversky introduced four topics; temperature, CO2, sea level, and ice caps. Our first comment provided substantive support for those four statements.
Seversky quoted four paragraphs of someone elses work. Neither you nor Seversky (apparently) understand that when quoting some other author's words (as in @4), it is standard practice (among intellectually honest writers) that a cite of who authored the quoted text and where it may be found also be provided. That you fail to understand, or persist in obfuscation, this most basic practice of citing quoted material of other authors, demonstrates that you are either a plagiarist, arguing at a grade school level, or just stuck on stupid. It also demonstrates that your cites can't be trusted, because you don't know what a "cite" actually is.Charles
June 22, 2015
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Charles: And yet, none of your “topic headers” were used by Seversky @4 and none of your links @14 & @16 were cites of the text posted by Seversky @4. Seversky introduced four topics; temperature, CO2, sea level, and ice caps. Our first comment provided substantive support for those four statements. Charles: Golly. Who knew??? "Can any of your neighbours tell, Kate? I'll ask them."Zachriel
June 22, 2015
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Zachriel @ 53
We were responding to the substance of the quotes. You didn’t have to “play twenty questions or guess at what” we were citing.
And yet, none of your "topic headers" were used by Seversky @4 and none of your links @14 & @16 were cites of the text posted by Seversky @4. Neither your links @14 & @16 nor the text at those links matched Seversky's quotes @4. One could only guess you meant "topic headers" - lol.
Not sure your point,
Golly. Who knew???Charles
June 22, 2015
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Charles: @14 & @16 was you sourcing what you claimed @38 were your “topic headers”, not Seversky’s quotes That's right. We were responding to the substance of the quotes. You didn't have to "play twenty questions or guess at what" we were citing. Charles: neither were your source that @23 which finally did correspond to Severskly’s last two paragraphs, which you didn’t clarify until @32.
Zachriel @23: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same article also supports the temperature and CO2 statements. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Not sure your point, but you are clearly uninterested in the climate science.Zachriel
June 22, 2015
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Mapou @ 50
You guys realize you are engaging in a “discussion” with a fruitcake, don’t you?
It's a cry for help.Charles
June 22, 2015
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Zachriel @ 49
You didn’t have to guess. We provided sourcing on our very first comment concerning temperature, CO2, sea level, and polar ice.
Liar. @14 & @16 was you sourcing what you claimed @38 were your "topic headers", not Seversky's quotes, and neither were your source that @23 which finally did correspond to Severskly's last two paragraphs, which you didn't clarify until @32. Prior to @32, it was all guesswork.Charles
June 22, 2015
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Zachriel (emphasis added):
In our first post, WE commented on the substance of Seversky’s remarks.
You guys realize you are engaging in a "discussion" with a fruitcake, don't you?Mapou
June 22, 2015
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Charles: Seversky provided no cites for wherever he lifted his quotes. So? It would seem that the content, not the precise wording, is what would be important. Charles: Your first five posts posts did nothing to correct that, rather you obfuscated with extraneous cites of misquotes from Seversky’s post @4 which you now claim were “topic headers” Sorry. We naturally assumed you were interested in the substantive content of the statements. Our mistake. Charles: Only in your sixth post did you provide a link which matched the text of Seversky’s last two paragraphs, but you didn’t clarify that until your 10th post. We originally responded to the substantive content. On our fifth comment we apologized for assuming you were interested in substance. We first addressed the exact quote business in our sixth comment.
Zachriel @23: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same article also supports the temperature and CO2 statements. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Charles: Neither can you force me to play twenty questions or guess at what Seversky or you were specifically citing. You didn't have to guess. We provided sourcing on our very first comment concerning temperature, CO2, sea level, and polar ice.Zachriel
June 22, 2015
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Zachriel @ 47
In our first post, we commented on the substance of Seversky’s remarks.
Seversky provided no cites for wherever he lifted his quotes. Your first five posts did nothing to correct that, rather you obfuscated with extraneous cites of misquotes from Seversky's post @4 which you now claim were "topic headers" - LOL. Only in your sixth post did you provide a link which matched the text of Seversky's last two paragraphs, but you didn't clarify that until your 10th post.
We can’t make you read the citations or respond to the substance. That’s completely up to you.
Neither can you force me to play twenty questions or guess at what Seversky or you were specifically citing. I won't pan through 10 posts of fools gold assuming somewhere might be a nugget of fact.
The article then links to a reference page with scientific citations supporting the claim.
Actually that page doesn't support the quoted "...past 130 years, the global average temperature..." That support is found yet another layer deeper at http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/hockeyfactloresucs05.pdf and it shows the data was extracted from Hansen's NASA GISS dataset just a few months after the climate gate emails were first leaked and everyone found out how Mann, Hansen, Jones, et. al. had been erroneously adjusting the data upwards. And because the study is 5.5 years old, it doesn't address the continued pause (or cooling trend) demonstrated by the NOAA UAH and RSS data from 2000 thru to 2015.Charles
June 22, 2015
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Charles: If you say it, it makes all the difference because you have no credibility or authority to grant you a presupposition of accuracy, and you have a history of obfuscation. Let's review.
Zachriel: The sea level and polar ice mass statements are from a NASA publication complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same article also supports the temperature and CO2 statements. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Charles: Without cites there is no way to identify the sources ... Zachriel: We even sourced two of the four exact quotes to NASA, complete with footnotes to scientific citations. The same NASA article also provides support for the other two statements. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Charles: Liar. Zachriel: In fact, we provided sources for two of the exact quotes, and supporting evidence for all four. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ Charles: Liar. Zachriel: We provided sources for two of the exact quotes... http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Then,
Zachriel: This quote {the third of four} is from the Union of Concerned Scientists ... The article then links to a reference page with scientific citations supporting the claim. http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/past-present-and-future.html#bf-toc-7
Charles: I’m willing to look at properly sourced and cited material that you might post In our first post, we commented on the substance of Seversky's remarks. We were surprised that you weren't interested in substantive support. We can't make you read the citations or respond to the substance. That's completely up to you.Zachriel
June 22, 2015
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Charles: I’m willing to look at properly sourced and cited material that you might post, but I’m not willing to assume your summarizations are accurate or honest A wise choice By the way , could you provide the properly sourced and cited material for your summarization? Thanks in advance But alarmists have low standards of evidence and have corrupted themselves through decades of allowing the (presumed) end to justify the means: they lack practice at being right. And cheerleading from politically correct media keeps them clueless.velikovskys
June 22, 2015
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Charles: but it is unsourced and unsubstantiated. Did the UCSUSA make it up or did they lift it from some blog post. It seems you just had to follow the links, here are some of the references. References: Yan, Z., P.D. Jones, T.D.Davies, A.Moberg, H. Bergström, D. Camuffo, C. Cocheo, M. Maugeri ,G. R. Demarée, T. Verhoeve, E. Thoen, M. Barriendos, R. Rodríguez, J. Martín-Vide And C. Yang. (2004). Trends of extreme temperatures in Europe and China based on daily observations, Climatic Change 53: 355–392. Arctic Climate Impact Assessment. 2004. Impacts of a Warming Arctic. Arctic Climate Impact Assessment. Cambridge, U.K.: Cambridge University Press. Available at http://www.acia.uaf.edu. Ahn J. et al. 2004. A record of atmospheric CO2 during the last 40,000 years from the Siple Dome, Antarctica ice core, Journal of Geophysical Research, 109, D13305, doi:10.1029/2003JD004415. Barnett, T.P., D.W. Pierce, and R. Schnur. 2001. Detection of anthropogenic climate change in the world's oceans. Science 292:270-274. Huybers, P., Comment on "Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance" by McIntyre and McKitrick, Geophysical Research Letters (In Press). Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. 2001. Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis. Cambridge, U.K.: Cambridge University Press. Jones, P.D. and M.E. Mann. 2004. Climate over past millennia, Reviews of Geophysics 42(2):1-42. Keeling, C.D. and T.P. Whorf. 2004. Atmospheric CO2 records from sites in the SIO air sampling network. In Trends: A Compendium of Data on Global Change. Oak Ridge, TN: Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center. Mann M.E., R.S. Bradley, and M.K. Hughes. 1999. Northern Hemisphere temperatures during the past millennium: Inferences, uncertainties, and limitations, Geophysical Research Letters 26(6):759-762. Mann, M. et al. 2003. On past temperatures and anomalous late-20th century warmth, EOS, Transactions, American Geophysical Union, 84: 8. Meko, D. et al. 1993. Spatial patterns of tree-growth anomalies in the United States and Southeastern Canada, Journal of Climate 6:1773-1786. Moberg, A. et al. 2005. Highly variable northern hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data. Nature 433:613-617. National Climate Data Center. 2005. Climate of 2005: June in Historical Perspective. Available at http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2005/jun/jun05.html Petit J.R. et al. 1999. Climate and atmospheric history of the past 420,000 years from the Vostok ice core, Antarctica. Nature 399:429-436. Siegenthaler, U. et al. 2005. Stable carbon cycle-climate relationship during the late Pleistocene. Science 310:1313–1317. von Storch, H. et al. 2004. Reconstructing past climate from noisy data. Science 306:679-682. von Storch, H. and E. Zorita. 2005. Comment on ''Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance'' by S. McIntyre and R. McKitrick. Geophysical Research Letters. 32:L20701, doi:10.1029velikovskys
June 22, 2015
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Andre, of related note:
... I watched in amazement as a few hundred members of the Texas Academy of Science rose to their feet and gave a standing ovation to a speech that enthusiastically advocated the elimination of 90 percent of Earth's population by airborne Ebola. The speech was given by Dr. Eric R. Pianka (Fig. 1), the University of Texas evolutionary ecologist and lizard expert who the Academy named the 2006 Distinguished Texas Scientist. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/04/doctor_doom_eric_pianka_receiv002118.html
bornagain77
June 22, 2015
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And all I want to know is why do these materialists care? There is no reason to suppose man has to be saved is there? Extinctions happen all the time, are we not just another animal soon to be gone?Andre
June 22, 2015
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