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	<title>Comments on: Letter to ISU President Re: Guillermo Gonzalez</title>
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		<title>By: SHELLEY THE REPUBLICAN : THE FREEDOM BLOG &#187; Christian persecution, and unequal opportunities</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-123046</link>
		<dc:creator>SHELLEY THE REPUBLICAN : THE FREEDOM BLOG &#187; Christian persecution, and unequal opportunities</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 04:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-123046</guid>
		<description>[...] URGENT PRAYER ALRERT Our friends at uncommon descent have put together an open letter to the board of ISU complaining about the unfair treatment that our dear Guillermo has received: To: Gregory Geoffroy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] URGENT PRAYER ALRERT Our friends at uncommon descent have put together an open letter to the board of ISU complaining about the unfair treatment that our dear Guillermo has received: To: Gregory Geoffroy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: russ</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121314</link>
		<dc:creator>russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 20:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121314</guid>
		<description>&quot;What would the powers that be say about a professor who sought to deny him tenure on those terms?&quot;

For some people, &quot;academic freedom&quot; is not a principle, but a means to an end.  When it ceases to be useful, they drop it like a hot potato.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What would the powers that be say about a professor who sought to deny him tenure on those terms?&#8221;</p>
<p>For some people, &#8220;academic freedom&#8221; is not a principle, but a means to an end.  When it ceases to be useful, they drop it like a hot potato.</p>
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		<title>By: tribune7</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121256</link>
		<dc:creator>tribune7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 11:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121256</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I am an ISU alumnus and part of the social context at &lt;/i&gt;

JT75, thank you for your post. It is a useful and valuable perspective.

It also got me thinking. Suppose there was a professor in a hard science (astronomy) who was nationally known and recognized by his peers as insightful with interesting ideas but who was an outspoken communist -- someone who defended Castro. 

What would the powers that be say about a professor who sought to deny him tenure on those terms? About students who defended him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I am an ISU alumnus and part of the social context at </i></p>
<p>JT75, thank you for your post. It is a useful and valuable perspective.</p>
<p>It also got me thinking. Suppose there was a professor in a hard science (astronomy) who was nationally known and recognized by his peers as insightful with interesting ideas but who was an outspoken communist &#8212; someone who defended Castro. </p>
<p>What would the powers that be say about a professor who sought to deny him tenure on those terms? About students who defended him?</p>
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		<title>By: jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121142</link>
		<dc:creator>jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 20:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121142</guid>
		<description>The Scubaredneck,

When the liberals protested in vain in the 1960&#039;s they were told that in order to change the system you had to change it from within.  So they were told to enter the universities, the press, the government and push their liberal agenda from within. 

They learned their lesson well and now 40 years later control the universities, the popular media, the press, the legal profession to some extent and are entrenched at upper middle levels in most government agencies.  Few ever went into business which is where most conservatives went starting at the same time.  Business school degrees sky-rocketed starting in the late 1960&#039;s.

Most people don&#039;t care as long as the economy is doing well and they can go to the mall and shop when they want, watch their favorite sports team or take a nice vacation once or twice a year.

It will only change when the economy tanks.  Then there will be an outcry.  Now people are doing everything they can to get their kids into prestigious schools at sky high tuitions because the country is incredibly rich. 

Nobody cares and we only debate what the liberal want to debate because they control the press and the news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Scubaredneck,</p>
<p>When the liberals protested in vain in the 1960&#8242;s they were told that in order to change the system you had to change it from within.  So they were told to enter the universities, the press, the government and push their liberal agenda from within. </p>
<p>They learned their lesson well and now 40 years later control the universities, the popular media, the press, the legal profession to some extent and are entrenched at upper middle levels in most government agencies.  Few ever went into business which is where most conservatives went starting at the same time.  Business school degrees sky-rocketed starting in the late 1960&#8242;s.</p>
<p>Most people don&#8217;t care as long as the economy is doing well and they can go to the mall and shop when they want, watch their favorite sports team or take a nice vacation once or twice a year.</p>
<p>It will only change when the economy tanks.  Then there will be an outcry.  Now people are doing everything they can to get their kids into prestigious schools at sky high tuitions because the country is incredibly rich. </p>
<p>Nobody cares and we only debate what the liberal want to debate because they control the press and the news.</p>
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		<title>By: The Scubaredneck</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121138</link>
		<dc:creator>The Scubaredneck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 19:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121138</guid>
		<description>The notion of &quot;a very influential atheistic religious studies department...&quot; is a bit like a biology department that studies unicorns and pixies. Just as you would not hire biologists to study unicorns and pixies, why on earth would one build a religious studies department around a group of outspoken atheists?

The Scubaredneck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The notion of &#8220;a very influential atheistic religious studies department&#8230;&#8221; is a bit like a biology department that studies unicorns and pixies. Just as you would not hire biologists to study unicorns and pixies, why on earth would one build a religious studies department around a group of outspoken atheists?</p>
<p>The Scubaredneck</p>
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		<title>By: SteveB</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121085</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 13:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121085</guid>
		<description>Just curious...
1.	Is the tenure process at state schools a matter of public record?  If not, why not?
2.	Can we know who the faculty members on the committee were, and is there any requirement or expectation that such committee members provide (public) reasons for their decisions?  If not, why not?  
3.	What are the criteria against which a given (generic) faculty memberÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s performance is measured when making the tenure decision?  Are these criteria known in advance?  What were they in GonzalezÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ case?  How do these stack up against other science-department professors who were granted tenure?  

Could these or similar questions, be forwarded to the afore-mentioned legislators and newspapers?  I&#039;d be curious to hear the answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious&#8230;<br />
1.	Is the tenure process at state schools a matter of public record?  If not, why not?<br />
2.	Can we know who the faculty members on the committee were, and is there any requirement or expectation that such committee members provide (public) reasons for their decisions?  If not, why not?<br />
3.	What are the criteria against which a given (generic) faculty memberÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s performance is measured when making the tenure decision?  Are these criteria known in advance?  What were they in GonzalezÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ case?  How do these stack up against other science-department professors who were granted tenure?  </p>
<p>Could these or similar questions, be forwarded to the afore-mentioned legislators and newspapers?  I&#8217;d be curious to hear the answers.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121083</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 12:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121083</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a fuller picture for ISU.  

Fire Avalos, discontinue religious studies altogether, and put all the savings into the science** and engineering departments. 

**Except for evolutionary biology which of course must be discontinued with the other religious studies.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a fuller picture for ISU.  </p>
<p>Fire Avalos, discontinue religious studies altogether, and put all the savings into the science** and engineering departments. </p>
<p>**Except for evolutionary biology which of course must be discontinued with the other religious studies.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121082</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 12:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121082</guid>
		<description>Check this out.  Gonzalez gets over 450 hits on Google scholar.  Most appear to be mainstream, high impact, peer reviewed journals.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Guillermo+Gonzalez+astro&amp;sourceid=navclient&amp;hl=en

Heads should roll at ISU.  Namely the president and whatever asshat hired an atheist to be a professor of religious studies which might be same asshat first mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check this out.  Gonzalez gets over 450 hits on Google scholar.  Most appear to be mainstream, high impact, peer reviewed journals.</p>
<p><a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Guillermo+Gonzalez+astro&#038;sourceid=navclient&#038;hl=en" rel="nofollow">http://scholar.google.com/scho.....#038;hl=en</a></p>
<p>Heads should roll at ISU.  Namely the president and whatever asshat hired an atheist to be a professor of religious studies which might be same asshat first mentioned.</p>
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		<title>By: JT75</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121073</link>
		<dc:creator>JT75</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 10:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121073</guid>
		<description>I am an ISU alumnus and part of the social context at the campus is a very small, almost non-existent, philosophy department, a very influential atheistic religious studies department headed up by the loud and intimidating Hector Avalos, and a large (between 7-900 kids) active student evanglical organization (The Salt Co.).  The student organization has many bright young people that are a constant irritation in Avalos&#039; classes. Granting Gonzalez tenure might be seen as adding fuel to the fire since, whether Gonzalez desires it or not, he would undoubtedly become a rallying point or icon for the already vocal evangelical students. 

 I agree that denying a seasoned expert like Gonzalez tenure based upon such considerations is a gross prejudice; I just thought everyone might like a fuller picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an ISU alumnus and part of the social context at the campus is a very small, almost non-existent, philosophy department, a very influential atheistic religious studies department headed up by the loud and intimidating Hector Avalos, and a large (between 7-900 kids) active student evanglical organization (The Salt Co.).  The student organization has many bright young people that are a constant irritation in Avalos&#8217; classes. Granting Gonzalez tenure might be seen as adding fuel to the fire since, whether Gonzalez desires it or not, he would undoubtedly become a rallying point or icon for the already vocal evangelical students. </p>
<p> I agree that denying a seasoned expert like Gonzalez tenure based upon such considerations is a gross prejudice; I just thought everyone might like a fuller picture.</p>
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		<title>By: kairos</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/comment-page-1/#comment-121052</link>
		<dc:creator>kairos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 06:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/2329/#comment-121052</guid>
		<description>&quot;These IDists are undoubtedly looking for a martyr&quot;

Very sorry for Guillermo but let us remember the famous citation: &quot;The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.&quot; (Quintus Septimius Tertullianus).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;These IDists are undoubtedly looking for a martyr&#8221;</p>
<p>Very sorry for Guillermo but let us remember the famous citation: &#8220;The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.&#8221; (Quintus Septimius Tertullianus).</p>
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