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	<title>Comments on: Expelled: When telling the truth means telling &#8220;lies&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Serving The Intelligent Design Community</description>
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		<title>By: alext</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-2/#comment-256486</link>
		<dc:creator>alext</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/#comment-256486</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;DeepDesign:
Regularity is found at every level in the known universe. We call it a Cosmos not Chaos.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
have you looked up the word &quot;stochastic&quot;? apparent complex sequences (even mathematical sets) will often arise in large enough random processes (and the universe is apparently the largest possible ongoing process we can see).
out of interest (and this is completely hypothetical of course), would a universe in which there was absolutely &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; possible observable regularity indicate design?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>DeepDesign:<br />
Regularity is found at every level in the known universe. We call it a Cosmos not Chaos.</p></blockquote>
<p>have you looked up the word &#8220;stochastic&#8221;? apparent complex sequences (even mathematical sets) will often arise in large enough random processes (and the universe is apparently the largest possible ongoing process we can see).<br />
out of interest (and this is completely hypothetical of course), would a universe in which there was absolutely <i>no</i> possible observable regularity indicate design?</p>
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		<title>By: PannenbergOmega</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-2/#comment-252606</link>
		<dc:creator>PannenbergOmega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/#comment-252606</guid>
		<description>Ok this is a bit random.

But would a Godel Universe support ID? What exactly did Godel believe about God? I know he believed in an afterlife.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok this is a bit random.</p>
<p>But would a Godel Universe support ID? What exactly did Godel believe about God? I know he believed in an afterlife.</p>
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		<title>By: DeepDesign</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252594</link>
		<dc:creator>DeepDesign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Did that just go through?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did that just go through?</p>
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		<title>By: DeepDesign</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252593</link>
		<dc:creator>DeepDesign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Regularity is found at every level in the known universe. We call it a Cosmos not Chaos. The fact that the cosmos at every level, from the outermost galaxies down to the interior of the indivudiual atom, is saturated with structure of a kind that is expresisble in mathetical terms is a fact lost on many people. Including the majority of Darwinists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regularity is found at every level in the known universe. We call it a Cosmos not Chaos. The fact that the cosmos at every level, from the outermost galaxies down to the interior of the indivudiual atom, is saturated with structure of a kind that is expresisble in mathetical terms is a fact lost on many people. Including the majority of Darwinists.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Rennie</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252589</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Rennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/#comment-252589</guid>
		<description>&quot;a moron who has been lied to&quot;

Even if it was true that Dawkins was lied to (I don&#039;t actually buy this claim, but for the sake of argument). He has supposedly been &quot;taken in&quot; by a ruse like this before. The first time is excusable but what is his excuse this time ? 

And besides, AFAICS (seeing as the movie has yet to open in Australia and I haven&#039;t had a chance to see it yet) it isn&#039;t like his position has been misrepresented in any way. Dawkins has not claimed that anywhere. 

If he doesn&#039;t like everybody knowing he is a fundamentally clueless anti-religious bigot, perhaps he should shut his pie whole and stop confirming it for everyone. 

If he wants to insist on making an arse of himself I don&#039;t see why anybody is obligated to cover for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;a moron who has been lied to&#8221;</p>
<p>Even if it was true that Dawkins was lied to (I don&#8217;t actually buy this claim, but for the sake of argument). He has supposedly been &#8220;taken in&#8221; by a ruse like this before. The first time is excusable but what is his excuse this time ? </p>
<p>And besides, AFAICS (seeing as the movie has yet to open in Australia and I haven&#8217;t had a chance to see it yet) it isn&#8217;t like his position has been misrepresented in any way. Dawkins has not claimed that anywhere. </p>
<p>If he doesn&#8217;t like everybody knowing he is a fundamentally clueless anti-religious bigot, perhaps he should shut his pie whole and stop confirming it for everyone. </p>
<p>If he wants to insist on making an arse of himself I don&#8217;t see why anybody is obligated to cover for him.</p>
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		<title>By: DLH</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252578</link>
		<dc:creator>DLH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>StarryStarrySkies at 26
&lt;blockquote&gt;The only issue is that, while Evolution Theory has been repeatedly supported by scientific observation, whereas Intelligent Design theory has not. There have been no rigorous scientific tests that ID has stood up to.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Do you mean to be serious? Or are you just parroting &quot;Big Science&quot; as briefly summarized in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.expelledthemovie.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Expelled&lt;/a&gt;?  Or have you even seen it?
Have you read any of the evidence for ID? Can you seriously address the arguments in Michael Behe&#039;s Darwin&#039;s Black Box, and Limits to Evolution, 
Dembski &amp; Wells, The Design of Life
Dembski, No Free Lunch. 
(For the light reading.)
e.g., See 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/The_Essential_Intelligent_Design_Bibliography&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; The Essential Intelligent Design Bibliography&lt;/a&gt;

For serious articles see:
&lt;a href=&quot;:http://www.discovery.org/a/2177&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Intelligent Design: The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories&lt;/a&gt; By: Stephen C. Meyer, Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington
May 18, 2007

William Dembski, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.designinference.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Design Inference.
&lt;/a&gt;

Do you actively support or are you in a position to support publication of ID research or articles, as in Stephen Myers article? 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Only that which can be observed and tested should be categorized as &quot;Science&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Will you kindly show us where the Origin Of Life has been observed and tested?
How about any &quot;Macroevolution&quot; from one species to another, or one genus to another, or on phyla to another etc.?

When considering &quot;Science&quot; you have to distinguish between laboratory repeatability vs the &quot;science&quot; of interpreting historical or prehistorical events. etc. See Stephen Meyer &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.discovery.org/a/2834&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Scientific Status of Intelligent Design:&lt;/a&gt; The Methodological Equivalence of Naturalistic and Non-Naturalistic Origins Theories, By: Stephen C. Meyer, Science and Evidence for Design in the Universe (Ignatius Press) November 13, 2005

PS Both Evolution and Intelligent Design have major philosophical IMPLICATIONS. Do not confuse the implications with the science.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>StarryStarrySkies at 26</p>
<blockquote><p>The only issue is that, while Evolution Theory has been repeatedly supported by scientific observation, whereas Intelligent Design theory has not. There have been no rigorous scientific tests that ID has stood up to.</p></blockquote>
<p>Do you mean to be serious? Or are you just parroting &#8220;Big Science&#8221; as briefly summarized in <a href="http://www.expelledthemovie.com" rel="nofollow"> Expelled</a>?  Or have you even seen it?<br />
Have you read any of the evidence for ID? Can you seriously address the arguments in Michael Behe&#8217;s Darwin&#8217;s Black Box, and Limits to Evolution,<br />
Dembski &#038; Wells, The Design of Life<br />
Dembski, No Free Lunch.<br />
(For the light reading.)<br />
e.g., See<br />
<a href="http://www.researchintelligentdesign.org/wiki/The_Essential_Intelligent_Design_Bibliography" rel="nofollow"> The Essential Intelligent Design Bibliography</a></p>
<p>For serious articles see:<br />
<a href=":<a href="http://www.discovery.org/a/2177" rel="nofollow">http://www.discovery.org/a/2177</a>&#8221; rel=&#8221;nofollow&#8221;>Intelligent Design: The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories By: Stephen C. Meyer, Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington<br />
May 18, 2007</p>
<p>William Dembski, <a href="http://www.designinference.com" rel="nofollow">The Design Inference.<br />
</a></p>
<p>Do you actively support or are you in a position to support publication of ID research or articles, as in Stephen Myers article? </p>
<blockquote><p>Only that which can be observed and tested should be categorized as &#8220;Science&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Will you kindly show us where the Origin Of Life has been observed and tested?<br />
How about any &#8220;Macroevolution&#8221; from one species to another, or one genus to another, or on phyla to another etc.?</p>
<p>When considering &#8220;Science&#8221; you have to distinguish between laboratory repeatability vs the &#8220;science&#8221; of interpreting historical or prehistorical events. etc. See Stephen Meyer <a href="http://www.discovery.org/a/2834" rel="nofollow">The Scientific Status of Intelligent Design:</a> The Methodological Equivalence of Naturalistic and Non-Naturalistic Origins Theories, By: Stephen C. Meyer, Science and Evidence for Design in the Universe (Ignatius Press) November 13, 2005</p>
<p>PS Both Evolution and Intelligent Design have major philosophical IMPLICATIONS. Do not confuse the implications with the science.</p>
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		<title>By: StarryStarrySkies</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252564</link>
		<dc:creator>StarryStarrySkies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No one with any knowledge of the disagreements between those who accept Evolution Theory and those who accept Intelligent Design Theory is saying that the producers of Expelled lied. The only issue is that, while Evolution Theory has been repeatedly supported by scientific observation, whereas Intelligent Design theory has not. There have been no rigorous scientific tests that ID has stood up to. This does not mean that it is wrong; This means that it belongs in the subject of philosophy, not science. Science covers fields that look for things that can be experimented upon. Only that which can be observed and tested should be categorized as &quot;Science&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one with any knowledge of the disagreements between those who accept Evolution Theory and those who accept Intelligent Design Theory is saying that the producers of Expelled lied. The only issue is that, while Evolution Theory has been repeatedly supported by scientific observation, whereas Intelligent Design theory has not. There have been no rigorous scientific tests that ID has stood up to. This does not mean that it is wrong; This means that it belongs in the subject of philosophy, not science. Science covers fields that look for things that can be experimented upon. Only that which can be observed and tested should be categorized as &#8220;Science&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: alext</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252415</link>
		<dc:creator>alext</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/#comment-252415</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Seriously, what kind of moron gets suckered like that twice ?&lt;/blockquote&gt; a moron who has been lied to.

realise that everyone in your field says you&#039;re wrong, you&#039;re either in a vastly elaborate, evil, arbitrary Dan-Brown-esque conspiracy theory (this is called paranoia, folks) - or, chances are you &lt;i&gt;are actually wrong.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Seriously, what kind of moron gets suckered like that twice ?</p></blockquote>
<p> a moron who has been lied to.</p>
<p>realise that everyone in your field says you&#8217;re wrong, you&#8217;re either in a vastly elaborate, evil, arbitrary Dan-Brown-esque conspiracy theory (this is called paranoia, folks) &#8211; or, chances are you <i>are actually wrong.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Nochange</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252400</link>
		<dc:creator>Nochange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Darwinists redefined the word &quot;lie&quot;?  Are they allowed to do that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darwinists redefined the word &#8220;lie&#8221;?  Are they allowed to do that?</p>
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		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelled/expelled-when-telling-the-truth-means-telling-lies/comment-page-1/#comment-252387</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nathan

Expelledthemovie was not registered &quot;long in advance&quot; of the interviews.  It was registered a month in advance of when Myers, Scott, and Dawkins were first contacted by the producers.  

Whether or not it was still a &quot;working title&quot; (one of two of more titles under consideration)  at that time is anyone&#039;s guess.  &quot;Crossroads&quot; was never registered in and of itself but was rather a page inside Rampant Films&#039; website and it had been that way indeed &quot;long before&quot; expelledthemovie was registered.  The producers at Premise, at least some of them, were also producers at Rampant Films.  How the project got switched from Rampant to Premise is just as likely (moreso IMO) to be business related as it was something designed to hide the nature of the film.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan</p>
<p>Expelledthemovie was not registered &#8220;long in advance&#8221; of the interviews.  It was registered a month in advance of when Myers, Scott, and Dawkins were first contacted by the producers.  </p>
<p>Whether or not it was still a &#8220;working title&#8221; (one of two of more titles under consideration)  at that time is anyone&#8217;s guess.  &#8220;Crossroads&#8221; was never registered in and of itself but was rather a page inside Rampant Films&#8217; website and it had been that way indeed &#8220;long before&#8221; expelledthemovie was registered.  The producers at Premise, at least some of them, were also producers at Rampant Films.  How the project got switched from Rampant to Premise is just as likely (moreso IMO) to be business related as it was something designed to hide the nature of the film.</p>
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