Tom Bethell: The fossil record sounds like the history of human technology

_{Denyse O'Leary

August 5, 2014

Evolution, Intelligent Design}

Share: Facebook; Twitter; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

Readers: Thoughts on the following from Tom Bethell?

Automobile history tells us much the same thing. It might even fit into Steve Meyer’s book on the Cambrian explosion [Darwin’s Doubt]. The number of animal “start-ups” at the time of the Cambrian was huge. Auto development – ditto.

Wikipedia shows a list of current and defunct automobile manufacturers in the United States: “There were over 1,800 automobile manufacturers in the United States from 1896 to 1930. Very few survived and only a few new ones were started after that period.” Amazing! That was the auto equivalent of the Cambrian explosion.

Forbes magazine has reported that there were only *40 car brands available in the U.S in 2008. And these are originated all over the world, e.g. in Japan and Germany. There are no British auto makers left.* (Extinction, anyone?) The U.S. has little more than GM, Ford and a few stragglers. (Chrysler is now German, right?) Fascinating auto “phylogenies” are available on the web.

The idea here is that human designers unconsciously follow in the footsteps of the Great Designer; or maybe are subject to similar constraints. It is an idea that might have interested S.J. Gould, except he and other Darwinians ruled it out in their own assumptions. The correspondence between human and supernatural design is one that should be explored here.

Okay, but supernatural need not mean personal. It just means above inanimate nature.* We can’t rule out, in principle, the idea that the cosmos is governed by an impersonal principle that organizes and gives laws (that is, it is top down, not bottom up).

Note: On this view, Berra’s blunder was that he was oblivious to the fact that automobiles are designed, not procreated. But that is simply a matter of (in his case, unobserved) fact. If procreation is the chosen method of manufacture, engineering could work the same way. Intelligence would still, of course be required, for large inputs of information. See also: Everything we need to know about airplanes van be explained without reference to aviation engineers.

* The naturalist holds that there is only inanimate nature, that thoughts are an illusion created by the activity of neurons in the brain, an illusion that may or may not promote survival.

Readers?

Follow UD News at Twitter!

Comments

Nicely articulated, CalvinsBulldog. Looks like Evolve's solipsistic position collapsed under its own weight. Dang. I was hoping to get him to tell us that time doesn't exist without clocks, natural or artificial. ;-) -QQuerius_{August 13, 2014
August
08
Aug
13
13
2014
06:34 PM
6
06
34
PM
PDT}

@Evolve We can’t rule out Santa Claus either. And that’s a lame excuse for not having any evidence for his existence. Say wot? Of course we can rule out Santa Claus. We can disprove the existence of the North Pole as a country unto itself through satellite imaging, We can certainly prove that Santa Claus never delivers any presents - neither globally, and nor to all the "good children" which is the positive claim of the legend. There are many other disproofs as well, which lead a rational mind to reject Santa Claus. The silly effort to equate Santa with God, however, only serves to demonstrate the elementary schoolboy category confusion that is rife among atheists. Why should anyone give credence to a person unable to construct meaningful and accurate categories for their arguments? Atheists will say, "Nobody sees God and nobody sees Santa; ergo we can place them in the same category", which quite aside from begging the question that nobody has seen God manifest himself, is what I call the blunderbuss approach to reasoning. This is where you pump rhetorical lead in every direction yet fail to make utility of fundamental reasoning. Similarity is not congruence. Stalin had a big nose and so does the Pope; that does not mean they are both communists. Elementary logic. Indeed, to the best of our knowledge, there are no thoughts or feelings or emotions or experiences without the brain and its neurons! All other-worldly experiences can be traced back to the brain. The holy grail of neuroscience - to find a chemical or physical mechanism to explain thought - has not materialised, even after decades of determined research. Indeed, far from not materialising, the research has yielded greater insight into the complexity of the mind such that some of those same neuroscience researchers have admitted in peer review papers that material causes cannot explain or be the causative agent for human thought. And of course there’s also no evidence for anything beyond nature, i.e the supernatural. Of course there is. And as a good materialist, you are forced to admit it. Remember the Big Bang? The Big Bang generated not only matter, but also the sum of energy, time, and space in the universe. However, if there was a point when the Big Bang occurred - remembering that it began outside of time - there must have been something that existed prior to the Big Bang that also is outside of time, and beyond space, energy and matter since none of these elements pre-exist the Big Bang. Since nature exists within the matrix of time, space, matter and energy, something - whatever you take it to be - beyond nature must logically exist or the Big Bang could not have occurred. Of course you're also being economical with the truth here. Because you doubtless accept notions of justice, and right and wrong, and ideas of respect and courtesy and fundamental logic which cannot be derived from nature. Naturalists go where the evidence leads. Supernaturalists live in fantasy land. This false and demonstrably untrue dichotomy suggests that you are the one that lives in a fantasy land. To suggest that those who believe in the supernatural are somehow existing in a delusional state of mind and do not follow evidence or observe rules of science, is ridiculous. In fact, many of the same rules and processes aped by atheists such as yourself, were laid down by dedicated theists. Taking the Ra-Ra approach to these big issues, like a cheerleader waving her pompoms, is neither meaningful nor intelligent, and it is sad that you have evidently persuaded yourself that you are both, and that those who accept the supernatural are somehow your intellectual inferiors.CalvinsBulldog_{August 7, 2014
August
08
Aug
7
07
2014
05:30 AM
5
05
30
AM
PDT}

Yes, Evolve. Isn't it freaking amazing that a bowl full of brain pudding can convince itself that it's conscious! Wow! As B.F. Skinner claimed, there's no such thing as a free-will action. Everything you do and think--you--think comes from the equivalent of a pre--programmed chemical robot. And justice, love, mercy, humility, creativity, etc. are all biochemical delusions and hallucinations. Of course no one actually lives like that, but it is a very handy way to not have to take any responsibility for your actions, be a self--centered prig, and do and say as you bloody well please! -QQuerius_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
06:05 PM
6
06
05
PM
PDT}

What kind of scrooge would want to rule out Santa?Mung_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
04:33 PM
4
04
33
PM
PDT}

supplemental notes and videos;
The Unbearable Wholeness of Beings - Stephen L. Talbott Virtually the same collection of molecules exists in the canine cells during the moments immediately before and after death. But after the fateful transition no one will any longer think of genes as being regulated, nor will anyone refer to normal or proper chromosome functioning. No molecules will be said to guide other molecules to specific targets, and no molecules will be carrying signals, which is just as well because there will be no structures recognizing signals. Code, information, and communication, in their biological sense, will have disappeared from the scientist’s vocabulary. http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-unbearable-wholeness-of-beings “I was in a body, and the only way that I can describe it was a body of energy, or of light. And this body had a form. It had a head, it had arms and it had legs. And it was like it was made out of light. And it was everything that was me. All of my memories, my consciousness, everything.”,,, “And then this vehicle formed itself around me. Vehicle is the only thing, or tube, or something, but it was a mode of transportation that’s for sure! And it formed around me. And there was no one in it with me. I was in it alone. But I knew there were other people ahead of me and behind me. What they were doing I don’t know, but there were people ahead of me and people behind me, but I was alone in my particular conveyance. And I could see out of it. And it went at a tremendously, horrifically, rapid rate of speed. But it wasn’t unpleasant. It was beautiful in fact. I was reclining in this thing, I wasn’t sitting straight up, but I wasn’t lying down either. I was sitting back. And it was just so fast. I can’t even begin to tell you where it went or whatever it was just fast!" – Vicki’s NDE – Blind since birth – Near Death Experience Tunnel - Speed Of Light - Turin Shroud - video http://www.vimeo.com/18371644 Life After Life - Raymond Moody - Near Death Experience – The Tunnel, The Light, The Life Review – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z56u4wMxNlg
At the 17:45 minute mark of the following Near Death Experience documentary, the Life Review portion of the Near Death Experience is highlighted, with several testimonies relating how every word, deed, and action, of a person's life (all the 'information' of a person's life) is gone over in the presence of God:
Near Death Experience Documentary - commonalities of the experience - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTuMYaEB35U
Verse and Music:
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. Moriah Peters - You Carry Me - music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2H-zQjgurQ
bornagain77_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
02:18 PM
2
02
18
PM
PDT}

That quantum entanglement, which conclusively demonstrates that ‘information’ in its pure ‘quantum form’ is completely transcendent of any time and space constraints (Bell Aspect, Leggett, Zeilinger, etc..), should be found in molecular biology on such a massive scale is a direct empirical falsification of Darwinian claims, for how can the quantum entanglement ‘effect’ in biology possibly be explained by a material (matter/energy) ’cause’ when the quantum entanglement ‘effect’ falsified material particles as its own causation in the first place? Appealing to the probability of various 'random' configurations of material particles, as Darwinism does, simply will not help since a timeless/spaceless cause must be supplied which is beyond the capacity of the material particles themselves to supply!
Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 29 October 2012 Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,” http://www.quantumlah.org/highlight/121029_hidden_influences.php Closing the last Bell-test loophole for photons - Jun 11, 2013 Excerpt:– requiring no assumptions or correction of count rates – that confirmed quantum entanglement to nearly 70 standard deviations.,,, http://phys.org/news/2013-06-bell-test-loophole-photons.html etc.. etc..
In other words, to give a coherent explanation for an effect that is shown to be completely independent of any time and space constraints one is forced to appeal to a cause that is itself not limited to time and space! i.e. Put more simply, you cannot explain a effect by a cause that has been falsified by the very same effect you are seeking to explain! Improbability arguments of various ‘special’ configurations of material particles, which have been a staple of the arguments against neo-Darwinism, simply do not apply since the cause is not within the material particles in the first place! Moreover, encoded ‘classical’ digital information, such as what William Dembski and Robert Marks have demonstrated the conservation of,
Conservation of Information in Search: Measuring the Cost of Success William A. Dembski and Robert J. Marks II http://www.evoinfo.org/index/
,,,is found to be a subset of this ‘non-local' (i.e. beyond space and time) quantum entanglement/information by the following method:
Quantum knowledge cools computers: New understanding of entropy - June 2011 Excerpt: No heat, even a cooling effect; In the case of perfect classical knowledge of a computer memory (zero entropy), deletion of the data requires in theory no energy at all. The researchers prove that "more than complete knowledge" from quantum entanglement with the memory (negative entropy) leads to deletion of the data being accompanied by removal of heat from the computer and its release as usable energy. This is the physical meaning of negative entropy. Renner emphasizes, however, "This doesn't mean that we can develop a perpetual motion machine." The data can only be deleted once, so there is no possibility to continue to generate energy. The process also destroys the entanglement, and it would take an input of energy to reset the system to its starting state. The equations are consistent with what's known as the second law of thermodynamics: the idea that the entropy of the universe can never decrease. Vedral says "We're working on the edge of the second law. If you go any further, you will break it." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110601134300.htm
,,,And here is the evidence that quantum information is in fact ‘conserved’;,,,
Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html Quantum no-deleting theorem Excerpt: A stronger version of the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem provide permanence to quantum information. To create a copy one must import the information from some part of the universe and to delete a state one needs to export it to another part of the universe where it will continue to exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_no-deleting_theorem#Consequence
Besides providing direct empirical falsification of neo-Darwinian claims as to the generation of information, the implication of finding 'non-local', beyond space and time, and ‘conserved’ quantum information in molecular biology on a massive scale is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious:
Does Quantum Biology Support A Quantum Soul? – Stuart Hameroff - video (notes in description) http://vimeo.com/29895068 Quantum Entangled Consciousness - Life After Death - Stuart Hameroff - video https://vimeo.com/39982578
bornagain77_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
02:18 PM
2
02
18
PM
PDT}

As to whether or not we have scientific evidence for a transcendent component to man that is able to live past the death of his temporal body, i.e. a 'soul', surprisingly the 'argument from information', that is central to ID's argument against Neo-Darwinism, plays right into this. Dr. Meyer and John Lennox weigh in on the transcendent aspect of information in biology here:
“One of the things I do in my classes, to get this idea across to students, is I hold up two computer disks. One is loaded with software, and the other one is blank. And I ask them, ‘what is the difference in mass between these two computer disks, as a result of the difference in the information content that they posses’? And of course the answer is, ‘Zero! None! There is no difference as a result of the information. And that’s because information is a mass-less quantity. Now, if information is not a material entity, then how can any materialistic explanation account for its origin? How can any material cause explain it’s origin? And this is the real and fundamental problem that the presence of information in biology has posed. It creates a fundamental challenge to the materialistic, evolutionary scenarios because information is a different kind of entity that matter and energy cannot produce. In the nineteenth century we thought that there were two fundamental entities in science; matter, and energy. At the beginning of the twenty first century, we now recognize that there’s a third fundamental entity; and its ‘information’. It’s not reducible to matter. It’s not reducible to energy. But it’s still a very important thing that is real; we buy it, we sell it, we send it down wires. Now, what do we make of the fact, that information is present at the very root of all biological function? In biology, we have matter, we have energy, but we also have this third, very important entity; information. I think the biology of the information age, poses a fundamental challenge to any materialistic approach to the origin of life.” -Dr. Stephen C. Meyer earned his Ph.D. in the History and Philosophy of science from Cambridge University for a dissertation on the history of origin-of-life biology and the methodology of the historical sciences. Intelligent design: Why can't biological information originate through a materialistic process? - Stephen Meyer - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqiXNxyoof8 John Lennox – Is There Evidence of Something Beyond Nature? (Semiotic Information) – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6rd4HEdffw
Of course atheists insist that the classical information found in life, in DNA and proteins, is merely 'emergent' from a material basis, but it is now found that a 'higher level' of quantum information/entanglement is also found to be physically holding life together: First, it is important to learn that ‘non-local’, beyond space and time, quantum entanglement (A. Aspect, A. Zeilinger, etc..) can be used as a ‘quantum information channel’,,,
Quantum Entanglement and Information Quantum entanglement is a physical resource, like energy, associated with the peculiar nonclassical correlations that are possible between separated quantum systems. Entanglement can be measured, transformed, and purified. A pair of quantum systems in an entangled state can be used as a quantum information channel to perform computational and cryptographic tasks that are impossible for classical systems. The general study of the information-processing capabilities of quantum systems is the subject of quantum information theory. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-entangle/
Moreover, this ‘spooky’ non-local quantum information, though at first thought to be impossible to maintain in ‘hot and noisy’ cells, is now found in molecular biology on a massive scale, in every DNA and protein molecule:
Quantum entanglement in hot systems – 2011 Excerpt: The authors remark that this reverses the previous orthodoxy, which held that quantum effects could not exist in biological systems because of the amount of noise in these systems.,,, Environmental noise here drives a persistent and cyclic generation of new entanglement.,,, In summary, the authors say that they have demonstrated that entanglement can recur even in a hot noisy environment. In biological systems this can be related to changes in the conformation of macromolecules. http://quantum-mind.co.uk/quantum-entanglement-hot-systems/ Quantum entanglement holds together life’s blueprint – 2010 Excerpt: When the researchers analysed the DNA without its helical structure, they found that the electron clouds were not entangled. But when they incorporated DNA’s helical structure into the model, they saw that the electron clouds of each base pair became entangled with those of its neighbours. “If you didn’t have entanglement, then DNA would have a simple flat structure, and you would never get the twist that seems to be important to the functioning of DNA,” says team member Vlatko Vedral of the University of Oxford. http://neshealthblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/quantum-entanglement-holds-together-lifes-blueprint/ Does DNA Have Telepathic Properties?-A Galaxy Insight – 2009 Excerpt: DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn’t be able to.,,, The recognition of similar sequences in DNA’s chemical subunits, occurs in a way unrecognized by science. There is no known reason why the DNA is able to combine the way it does, and from a current theoretical standpoint this feat should be chemically impossible. per daily galaxy DNA Can Discern Between Two Quantum States, Research Shows – June 2011 Excerpt: — DNA — can discern between quantum states known as spin. – The researchers fabricated self-assembling, single layers of DNA attached to a gold substrate. They then exposed the DNA to mixed groups of electrons with both directions of spin. Indeed, the team’s results surpassed expectations: The biological molecules reacted strongly with the electrons carrying one of those spins, and hardly at all with the others. The longer the molecule, the more efficient it was at choosing electrons with the desired spin, while single strands and damaged bits of DNA did not exhibit this property. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331104014.htm Quantum Information/Entanglement In DNA - short video https://vimeo.com/92405752 Coherent Intrachain energy migration at room temperature – Elisabetta Collini and Gregory Scholes – University of Toronto – Science, 323, (2009), pp. 369-73 Excerpt: The authors conducted an experiment to observe quantum coherence dynamics in relation to energy transfer. The experiment, conducted at room temperature, examined chain conformations, such as those found in the proteins of living cells. Neighbouring molecules along the backbone of a protein chain were seen to have coherent energy transfer. Where this happens quantum decoherence (the underlying tendency to loss of coherence due to interaction with the environment) is able to be resisted, and the evolution of the system remains entangled as a single quantum state. http://www.scimednet.org/quantum-coherence-living-cells-and-protein/ Physicists Discover Quantum Law of Protein Folding – February 22, 2011 Quantum mechanics finally explains why protein folding depends on temperature in such a strange way. Excerpt: First, a little background on protein folding. Proteins are long chains of amino acids that become biologically active only when they fold into specific, highly complex shapes. The puzzle is how proteins do this so quickly when they have so many possible configurations to choose from. To put this in perspective, a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,, Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins. That's a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo's equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/423087/physicists-discover-quantum-law-of-protein/ etc.. etc..
bornagain77_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
02:16 PM
2
02
16
PM
PDT}

If the spirit, soul, conciousness etc can survive outside of the body, and it is this immaterial soul that experiences the NDE and not the brain, then the brain simply recalls, or attempts to interpret the events / experiences that took place while separated from its conciousness, once the conciousness and brain reunite and sync. The brain might also have trouble interpreting immaterial events which may explain certain abnormalities when recounting such events.humbled_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
02:15 PM
2
02
15
PM
PDT}

Velikovskys, the challenge of achieving deep meditative states is overcoming brain induced distractions. Being brain dead can only help. Takes practice to achieve these states in waking life. Practice and right attitude.ppolish_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
01:39 PM
1
01
39
PM
PDT}

Velikovskys, one needs a brain to recount a NDE. That is not the same as needing a brain to have a NDE.ppolish_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
01:24 PM
1
01
24
PM
PDT}

People prevent it, velikovskys- people and their invented limitations. Being taught that we can only do so much doesn't help.Joe_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
12:28 PM
12
12
28
PM
PDT}

ba, Thanks but work blocks videos , if the immaterial mind can see in near death experiences,what keeping it from doing it in everyday life? Got something about that?velikovskys_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
12:24 PM
12
12
24
PM
PDT}

Consciousness After Death: Strange Tales From the Frontiers of Resuscitation Medicine By Brandon Keim - 04.24.13 Excerpt: Parnia:,, When I looked at the cardiac arrest literature, it became clear that it’s after the heart stops and blood flow into the brain ceases. There’s no blood flow into the brain, no activity, about 10 seconds after the heart stops. When doctors start to do CPR, they still can’t get enough blood into the brain. It remains flatlined. That’s the physiology of people who’ve died or are receiving CPR. Not just my study, but four others, all demonstrated the same thing: People have memories and recollections. Combined with anecdotal reports from all over the world, from people who see things accurately and remember them, it suggests this needs to be studied in more detail.,,, The point that goes against the experiences happening afterwards, or before the brain shut down, is that many people describe very specific details of what happened to them during cardiac arrest. They describe conversations people had, clothes people wore, events that went on 10 or 20 minutes into resuscitation. That is not compatible with (having no) brain activity. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/04/consciousness-after-death/all/ Another piece of evidence that argues very strongly against any type of materialistic explanation for Near death Experiences is what is termed 'Shared Death Experience'. A 'Shared Death Experience' is an experience in which a loved one, though not terminally ill, is caught up into part of the Near Death Experience as a loved one passes on: Dr. Raymond Moody on Shared Death Experiences - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-ihzzYjqeE Even though the atheistic researchers in this following study found evidence directly contradicting what they had expected to find, they were/are so wedded to the materialistic/naturalistic view of reality, the view of “I’ am my body”, that it seems sadly impossible for them, or at least the lead researcher, to even conceive of the fact that they/he may be wrong in their naturalistic presuppositions, and to even admit to the possibility of the reality/truth of the soul, i.e. to the “I’ am a soul distinct from my body” view of reality. 'Afterlife' feels 'even more real than real,' researcher says - Wed April 10, 2013 Excerpt: "If you use this questionnaire ... if the memory is real, it's richer, and if the memory is recent, it's richer," he said. The coma scientists weren't expecting what the tests revealed. "To our surprise, NDEs were much richer than any imagined event or any real event of these coma survivors," Laureys reported. The memories of these experiences beat all other memories, hands down, for their vivid sense of reality. "The difference was so vast," he said with a sense of astonishment. Even if the patient had the experience a long time ago, its memory was as rich "as though it was yesterday," Laureys said. http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/belgium-near-death-experiences/ Memories of Near Death Experiences (NDEs): More Real Than Reality? - Mar. 27, 2013 Excerpt: University of Liège researchers have demonstrated that the physiological mechanisms triggered during NDE lead to a more vivid perception not only of imagined events in the history of an individual but also of real events which have taken place in their lives!,,, ,,,researchers,, have looked into the memories of NDE with the hypothesis that if the memories of NDE were pure products of the imagination, their phenomenological characteristics (e.g., sensorial, self referential, emotional, etc. details) should be closer to those of imagined memories. Conversely, if the NDE are experienced in a way similar to that of reality, their characteristics would be closer to the memories of real events. The researchers compared the responses provided by three groups of patients, each of which had survived (in a different manner) a coma, and a group of healthy volunteers. They studied the memories of NDE and the memories of real events and imagined events with the help of a questionnaire which evaluated the phenomenological characteristics of the memories. The results were surprising. From the perspective being studied, not only were the NDEs not similar to the memories of imagined events, but the phenomenological characteristics inherent to the memories of real events (e.g. memories of sensorial details) are even more numerous in the memories of NDE than in the memories of real events. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130327190359.htm A Doctor's Near Death Experience Inspires a New Life - video Quote: "It's not like a dream. It's like the world we are living in is a dream and it's kind of like waking up from that." Dr. Magrisso http://www.nbcchicago.com/on-air/as-seen-on/A-Doctor--186331791.html Dr. Eben Alexander Says It's Time for Brain Science to Graduate From Kindergarten - 10/24/2013 Excerpt: To take the approach of, "Oh it had to be a hallucination of the brain" is just crazy. The simplistic idea that NDEs (Near Death Experiences) are a trick of a dying brain is similar to taking a piece of cardboard out of a pizza delivery box, rolling it down a hill and then claiming that it's an identical event as rolling a beautiful Ferrari down a hill. They are not the same at all. The problem is the pure materialist scientists can be so closed-minded about it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ingrid-peschke/near-death-experiences_b_4151093.html One of the more fascinating branches of Near Death Studies have been the studies of people who were born blind who have had NDE’s, who could see for the first time in their life during their NDE. This simply has no explanation within the materialistic framework, whereas, in the theistic framework, this is expected: Blind Woman Can See During Near Death Experience (NDE) - Pim von Lommel - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKyQJDZuMHE Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper (1997) conducted a study of 31 blind people, many of who reported vision during their Near Death Experiences (NDEs). 21 of these people had had an NDE while the remaining 10 had had an out-of-body experience (OBE), but no NDE. It was found that in the NDE sample, about half had been blind from birth. (of note: This 'anomaly' is also found for deaf people who can hear sound during their Near Death Experiences(NDEs).) http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Ring/Ring-Journal%20of%20Near-Death%20Studies_1997-16-101-147-1.pdf The Mind Is Not The Brain - Scientific Evidence - Rupert Sheldrake - (Referenced Notes) - video https://vimeo.com/33479544bornagain77_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
11:52 AM
11
11
52
AM
PDT}

BA, Excerpt: These findings strongly challenge the mainstream neuroscientific view that mind and consciousness result solely from brain activity. As we have seen, such a view fails to account for how NDErs can experience—while their hearts are stopped—vivid and complex thoughts and acquire veridical information about objects or events remote from their bodies. They still have brains, you have one were the brain was removed?velikovskys_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
11:34 AM
11
11
34
AM
PDT}

BA77, Near death experiences are not evidence that consciousness and thought are not the result of the brains structure and chemistry. The heart stopping and death are not the same thing. Anymore than the kidneys or liver stopping being the same as death. They may lead to it, but that is not a given. And to demonstrate that both sides of the argument can use the quote mining approach of BA77, I give you the following:
Many people on their deathbeds report seeing a long corridor with a brilliant light at the end of it. Could it be heaven? Probably not. New research shows that these near-death visions may be linked to intense electrical surges that cause "hyper real" thoughts in our brains. http://io9.com/a-new-scientific-explanation-for-near-death-experiences-1110395345

Nevertheless, medical science offers compelling evidence that many aspects of NDEs are physiological and psychological in nature. Scientists have found that the drugs ketamine and PCP can create sensations in users that are nearly identical to many NDEs. In fact, some users think they are actually dying while on the drug. http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/extrasensory-perceptions/near-death-experience4.htm

Many of the phenomena associated with near-death experiences can be biologically explained, says neuroscientist Dean Mobbs, at the University of Cambridge's Medical Research Council Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit. In addition, research now shows that a number of medicinal and recreational drugs can mirror the euphoria often felt in near-death experiences, such as the anesthetic ketamine, which can also trigger out-of-body experiences and hallucinations. Ketamine affects the brain's opioid system, which can naturally become active even without drugs when animals are under attack, suggesting trauma might set off this aspect of near-death experiences, Mobbs explains. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/peace-of-mind-near-death/

Within the first 30 seconds after cardiac arrest, all of the rats displayed a widespread, transient surge of highly synchronized brain activity that had features associated with a highly aroused brain. In fact, at near-death, many known electrical signatures of consciousness exceeded levels found in the waking state, suggesting that the brain is capable of well-organized electrical activity during the early stage of clinical death. This study tells us that reduction of oxygen or both oxygen and glucose during cardiac arrest can stimulate brain activity that is characteristic of conscious processing,” says Borjigin. “It also provides the first scientific framework for the near-death experiences reported by many cardiac arrest survivors. http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archive/201308/electrical-signatures-consciousness-dying-brain

However, people who have inhaled excess carbon dioxide or have been at high altitudes, which can raise the blood's CO2 concentrations, have been known to have sensations similar to near-death experiences, she said. The research also supports the argument that anything that disinhibits the brain—damages the brain's ability to manage impulses—can produce near-death sensations, he said. Physical brain injury, drugs, and delirium have all been associated with a disinhibited state, and CO2 overload is another potential trigger. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/04/100408-near-death-experiences-blood-carbon-dioxide/
Hey, this is fun.Acartia_bogart_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
11:32 AM
11
11
32
AM
PDT}

The idea here is that human designers unconsciously follow in the footsteps of the Great Designer; or maybe are subject to similar constraints. Then from analogy we should conclude that there are multiple designers of life,competing for market share, constrained by an imperfect knowledge of optimal design. Dependent on fixed amount of resources. And subject to chance. It is an idea that might have interested S.J. Gould, except he and other Darwinians ruled it out in their own assumptions. Science is limited in its scope by its methods, the supernatural is not by definition constrained by nature. Scientific method is only valid on causation constrained by nature. The correspondence between human and supernatural design is one that should be explored here. Since with human design is constrained by the designer's knowledge, the designer's skill, the designer's experience ,all of which are finite. It is also constrained by natural laws of matter. A supernatural being has none of these constraints.Any correspondence would have to be intentionally " dumbed down " on the part of the supernatural probably. Unless the supernatural has unknown constraints.velikovskys_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
11:31 AM
11
11
31
AM
PDT}

If God designed cars, would we expect recalls, traffic fatalities, and junk yards? If so, how could that be expained?ppolish_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
11:19 AM
11
11
19
AM
PDT}

as to this piece of Evolve's rant: "Indeed, to the best of our knowledge, there are no thoughts or feelings or emotions or experiences without the brain and its neurons!" Really??? Near death, explained (?) - By Dr. Mario Beauregard research professor Neuroscience Research Center at the University of Montreal. - April 2012 Excerpt: These findings strongly challenge the mainstream neuroscientific view that mind and consciousness result solely from brain activity. As we have seen, such a view fails to account for how NDErs can experience—while their hearts are stopped—vivid and complex thoughts and acquire veridical information about objects or events remote from their bodies. NDE studies also suggest that after physical death, mind and consciousness may continue in a transcendent level of reality that normally is not accessible to our senses and awareness. Needless to say, this view is utterly incompatible with the belief of many materialists that the material world is the only reality. http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_death_explained/singleton/ (Eben Alexander) - A (Harvard) neurosurgeon confronts the non-material nature of consciousness - December 2011 Excerpted quote: To me one thing that has emerged from my (Near Death) experience and from very rigorous analysis of that experience over several years, talking it over with others that I respect in neuroscience, and really trying to come up with an answer, is that consciousness outside of the brain is a fact. It’s an established fact. And of course, that was a hard place for me to get, coming from being a card-toting reductive materialist over decades. It was very difficult to get to knowing that consciousness, that there’s a soul of us that is not dependent on the brain. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/he-said-it-a-neurosurgeon-confronts-the-non-material-nature-of-consciousness/ As far as observational evidence is concerned, Neo-Darwinian evolution does not even come close to matching the strength of evidence that we have for NDE's Near-Death Experiences: Putting a Darwinist's Evidentiary Standards to the Test - Dr. Michael Egnor - October 15, 2012 Excerpt: Indeed, about 20 percent of NDE's are corroborated, which means that there are independent ways of checking about the veracity of the experience. The patients knew of things that they could not have known except by extraordinary perception -- such as describing details of surgery that they watched while their heart was stopped, etc. Additionally, many NDE's have a vividness and a sense of intense reality that one does not generally encounter in dreams or hallucinations.,,, The most "parsimonious" explanation -- the simplest scientific explanation -- is that the (Near Death) experience was real. Tens of millions of people have had such experiences. That is tens of millions of more times than we have observed the origin of species (or origin of life, or origin of molecular machine), which is never.,,, The materialist reaction, in short, is unscientific and close-minded. NDE's show fellows like Coyne at their sneering unscientific irrational worst. Somebody finds a crushed fragment of a fossil and it's earth-shaking evidence. Tens of million of people have life-changing spiritual experiences and it's all a big yawn. Note: Dr. Egnor is professor and vice-chairman of neurosurgery at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/near_death_expe_1065301.html "A recent analysis of several hundred cases showed that 48% of near-death experiencers reported seeing their physical bodies from a different visual perspective. Many of them also reported witnessing events going on in the vicinity of their body, such as the attempts of medical personnel to resuscitate them (Kelly et al., 2007)." Kelly, E. W., Greyson, B., & Kelly, E. F. (2007). Unusual experiences near death and related phenomena. In E. F. Kelly, E. W. Kelly, A. Crabtree, A. Gauld, M. Grosso, & B. Greyson, Irreducible mind (pp. 367-421). Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield. Michaela's Amazing NEAR death experience - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTcHWz6UMZ8bornagain77_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
08:40 AM
8
08
40
AM
PDT}

All other-worldly experiences can be traced back to the brain.
Evidence that unworldly experiences affect the brain. Extrapolating from that, something unworldly is the origin of immaterial thought.Silver Asiatic_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
08:33 AM
8
08
33
AM
PDT}

///We can’t rule out, in principle, the idea that the cosmos is governed by an impersonal principle that organizes and gives laws./// We can't rule out Santa Claus either. And that's a lame excuse for not having any evidence for his existence. ///The naturalist holds that there is only inanimate nature, that thoughts are an illusion created by the activity of neurons in the brain./// Indeed, to the best of our knowledge, there are no thoughts or feelings or emotions or experiences without the brain and its neurons! All other-worldly experiences can be traced back to the brain. And of course there's also no evidence for anything beyond nature, i.e the supernatural. Naturalists go where the evidence leads. Supernaturalists live in fantasy land.Evolve_{August 5, 2014
August
08
Aug
5
05
2014
08:12 AM
8
08
12
AM
PDT}

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply