The Dawkins-Dembski Briefwechsel II — “Blasphemy is a Victimless Crime”
| December 20, 2006 | Posted by William Dembski under Culture, Evolution, Religion |
Richard Dawkins continues to publish my past emails to him without permission and I continue to return the favor. The following correspondence is current and remarkable. The subject hearder “Blasphemy is a Victimless Crime” is Dawkins’s. I’ve omitted the portions of our correspondence not relevant to this theme.
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:35:39 -0600
To: Richard Dawkins
From: “William A. Dembski”
Subject: Re: Blasphemy is a Victimless Crime
Dear Prof. Dawkins,
Your response below regarding The Blasphemy Challenge (http://blasphemychallenge.com) is predictable, though thank you for being so forthright in endorsing it. Question: Would you be willing to go further and endorse expanding The Blasphemy Challenge to include blaspheming the God of Islam, encouraging young people in the Muslim world to put themselves on YouTube and say something along the lines of renouncing the God of Mohammed and stating clearly that Mohammed is not God’s prophet since there is no God? I’m sure you could come up with a suitable gift to entice young former Muslims, like a coffeetable book of the recent Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Are you an equal opportunity atheist or do you simply go after the Christian God because we tolerate your antics?
[snip]
Best wishes,
Bill Dembski
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At 04:59 AM 12/20/2006, Richard Dawkins wrote:
On 20 Dec 2006, at 01:40, William A. Dembski wrote:
Dear Prof. Dawkins,
You didn’t answer the obvious question: Do you personally endorse the blasphemy challenge [[http://www.blasphemychallenge.com]]? Do you find it offensive? May I quote you that you don’t endorse the blasphemy challenge and find it positively offensive?
I had not given the Blasphemy Challenge any thought until you called it to my attention. Now that you have done so, I do not seem to feel strongly one way or the other. As that admirable bumper sticker has it, Blasphemy is a Victimless Crime. So, am I going to send in my own film clip denying the Holy Ghost? No, that is not what Oxford professors do, they write books instead. Do I find it offensive that so many young people are sending in their film clips? No. I hadn’t listened to any of them before you raised the matter. I have now done so, and I must say I find them more charming than offensive. They mostly seem rather nice young people, and they are doing their bit, in their own lively and entertaining way, to raise consciousness and set an example to their peers. I am especially pleased to note how young they are, for organized atheists have, until recently, been noticeably and discouragingly grey-headed. I think we may be witnessing the beginnings of a shift in the tectonic plates of our Zeitgeist. I am delighted to see so many young Americans taking part, in a way that suits their age group better than mine or yours.
[snip]
Richard Dawkins
[snip]
39 Responses to The Dawkins-Dembski Briefwechsel II — “Blasphemy is a Victimless Crime”
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@ Michaels7 – post #24
“OT: Buildup of damaged DNA in cells drives aging
http://physorg.com/news85846219.html”
Interesting… Non-repaired DNA cause rapid aging, death…
I believe this is another strong evidence for evolution, is it not ?…
“In my case it’s because the people in charge of making laws and starting wars believe in an invisible deity, and rather alarmingly this belief informs their decision making.”
Do you mean that the majority of wars were generated by religious hatred ?… In this case I believe you’re wrong… Let’s take – for example – the last two largest wars in history, WWI & WWII… Is there any religiously based cause for the start of those wars ? Categorically not! And there are a lot of other examples.
For instance, I live in Romania… I know very well the Balkan history and our troubles with the Turks and all the 500 years period of fighting them… Even it was a clash between two civilizations and – someone may say – two religions, I strongly believe that the wars within that 500 years period of time were motivated, also, by something else: lust for power and dominance, with the deep roots in materialism. You can also see today the lust and materialism of the many sheiks in the (oil reach) Muslim world… I wonder if the Koran is teaching that…
“To be an atheist is to recognize that we humans are in charge of our own destiny, and it means no one gets to impose views based on a magic book.”
Are you absolutely sure that we humans are in charge & control ?… Can you prove that somehow ? We don’t even know (in scientific fashion) where do we came from…
“Sure there can be evil atheists just like there can be evil Christians, Jews or Muslims, but at least you can take comfort in the fact that no atheist looks forward to the end of the world.”
I believe you know what Revelation exactly means in english… So, looking forward for the “end of the world”, as you say, may have perfect sense if you believe in God. God has promised something, after the Armageddon… Which I believe can be a nice experience even for an atheist…
A new Earth, no more death and suffering… So, for me as a Christian, is much more comfort than for you as an atheist. Because, in your belief, there is nothing after the life ends, there is nothing after the Universe ends…
“BTW I deny the God of Abraham and all his proxies, so unlike someone who rapes a child and then “repents†I will burn in hell. Lovely!”
Can you send me the exact Bible passage you refer to ?
Obviously I refer to no particular Bible passage, this was picking up on the original idea of the YouTube project, that denying/blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the one unforgivable sin . . .
The YouTube project is run by atheists. They clearly don’t understand scripture or blasphemy, something that has been pointed out on numerous posts on this board.
Concerning crimes against children consider Mark 9:42.
“You know a whole lot of American kids watch South Park. I wonder if Professor Dawkins ever got the chance to catch it? ”
Yes, he comments on it briefly here:
http://richarddawkins.net/tourJournal#11
Intepid,
Re: Nihilism – I don’t really have anything to say about that, other than the idea that nihilism in atheists being the fault of christians is.. well, I’ll just say I don’t think you’re serious, and leave it at that.
As for armageddon – I absolutely agree that many christians accept it as part of their faith. I’d go so far as to say that many have a fascination with it; it is a pretty singular ‘event’. But I disagree with the assertion that most, or even very many look forward to it. On the other hand, atheist worldviews do run the gamut from Eric Pianka enthusiasm for humanity’s downfall to Peter Singer equating of humanity with animals to simple nihilistic apathy. Which is in the majority? Hard to tell – but atheists don’t speak with a unified or near-unified voice of peace and hope on the issue.
On materialistic determinism – Dawkins has addressed this directly. It’s a pretty simple claim, sure, but it’s one that naturally follows. The man does not believe in free will in any real sense of the word, just as Dennett does not believe that consciousness is itself a very meaningful concept at its core. Free will in theism is another matter – but again, the point is that there is anything but a united voice of atheism on the glory of man’s individual freedom and capability. You don’t need to be a calvinist to be a determinist.
As for magic books and the idea that nothing is sacred: Sorry, but neither claim really advances much. Marx and those like him did believe in a higher power – they made prophecies, they had strong and unwavering beliefs about the nature and future of man, and they believed destiny would vindicate them. Mao’s little red book and Marx’s manifesto may have since fallen out of fashion – but that means nothing. They were sacred, they required faith – and they proved that the source of irrationality and zealotry in man is not in a belief in God. This is the most important lesson of the 20th century, and one many – Dawkins included – are desperate to resist.
Finally – as stated before, I disagree with the claim that ‘to atheists, nothing is sacred’. A thing does not need to be rooted in religion to be sacred – again, Marx and the fascists both illustrated this. As for disliking christians and christianity – Dawkins certainly has one heck of a grudge against them directly. For many atheists – especially online – it’s important to blaspheme, mock, and be actively antagonistic.
Has anyone deleted an intepid’s post ?…
Yes. All of them.
trystero57, thanks.
Those crazy American kids. Funny, how he missed the point.
Sladjo,
From the YEC Bible pov, aging goes downward from the beginning from a peak of 900 years to below 120 after Noah.
The acumulative effect causing shorter lifespan, more damage, more disease, while we’re discovering how to fight it, live longer.
A good example would be the Wnt signal switch turned off in chickens.
Instead of the evolution story of novel forms most bountiful, it indicates a widning down, not a winding up. At least, that’s how I’d see it from a YEC perspective.
[...] A year or so ago, when Richard Dawkins’s website posted a blasphemy challenge (reported at UD here — the challenge urged people to post a YouTube video of themselves blaspheming the Holy [...]