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	<title>Comments on: Not With Our Tax Dollars You Don&#8217;t!</title>
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	<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/</link>
	<description>Serving The Intelligent Design Community</description>
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		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-10061</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-10061</guid>
		<description>Check out the poll results at PJI to this question:

&quot;Should government funds be used to influence students&#039; religious beliefs regarding evolution?&quot;

When I voted it was 

yes 16%
no 81%
not sure 2%

http://www.pacificjustice.org/index.cfm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out the poll results at PJI to this question:</p>
<p>&#8220;Should government funds be used to influence students&#8217; religious beliefs regarding evolution?&#8221;</p>
<p>When I voted it was </p>
<p>yes 16%<br />
no 81%<br />
not sure 2%</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pacificjustice.org/index.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.pacificjustice.org/index.cfm</a></p>
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		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-10060</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-10060</guid>
		<description>Tim Sandefur, the resident establishment clause extremist at Panda&#039;s Thumb , is NOT happy about this:

http://www.pacificjustice.org/resources/news/focusdetails.cfm?ID=PR051012a

Normally Tim, whose anti-ID obsession distorts his otherwise good judgment, has been allied with Pacific Justice on other civil rights cases.  He&#039;s not at all happy to see PJI preparing to bitchslap Berkeley and his precious anti-ID buddies.  This is a slam dunk case against Berkeley.  Tim knows it.  Too bad he isn&#039;t honest enough to admit it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim Sandefur, the resident establishment clause extremist at Panda&#8217;s Thumb , is NOT happy about this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pacificjustice.org/resources/news/focusdetails.cfm?ID=PR051012a" rel="nofollow">http://www.pacificjustice.org/.....=PR051012a</a></p>
<p>Normally Tim, whose anti-ID obsession distorts his otherwise good judgment, has been allied with Pacific Justice on other civil rights cases.  He&#8217;s not at all happy to see PJI preparing to bitchslap Berkeley and his precious anti-ID buddies.  This is a slam dunk case against Berkeley.  Tim knows it.  Too bad he isn&#8217;t honest enough to admit it.</p>
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		<title>By: jasonng</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-9755</link>
		<dc:creator>jasonng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 01:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9755</guid>
		<description>I wonder what would happen if someone wrote on Darwinist propaganda...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what would happen if someone wrote on Darwinist propaganda&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: higgity</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-9745</link>
		<dc:creator>higgity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9745</guid>
		<description>Speaking of a mandatory philosophy course... the current subject in my freshman College Writing class is about spotting and dissecting propaganda. Scheduled for November... you&#039;ll never guess.

&quot;The Creationism/Intelligent Design debate&quot;

I&#039;ll let you guys know how it goes if you&#039;re interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of a mandatory philosophy course&#8230; the current subject in my freshman College Writing class is about spotting and dissecting propaganda. Scheduled for November&#8230; you&#8217;ll never guess.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Creationism/Intelligent Design debate&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll let you guys know how it goes if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
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		<title>By: jasonng</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-9744</link>
		<dc:creator>jasonng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9744</guid>
		<description>I agree with crandaddy as well, so much of the educational system is about force- feeding students, telling them this is how things are and anyone who thinks otherwise ... is wrong. This is clearly evident in the structure of virtually all high school tests: there&#039;s a &quot;right&quot; answer and the rest are &quot;wrong&quot;.

With a mandatory philosophy course (hopefully for at least two years in high school), students will learn to think for themselves, evaluate different views of life, science, etc., and engage in much needed class discussion. Philosophy helps to create the &quot;big picture&quot; that teachers are always trying to make students understand; its broad application to various aspects of life gives a sense of practicality to seemingly useless concepts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with crandaddy as well, so much of the educational system is about force- feeding students, telling them this is how things are and anyone who thinks otherwise &#8230; is wrong. This is clearly evident in the structure of virtually all high school tests: there&#8217;s a &#8220;right&#8221; answer and the rest are &#8220;wrong&#8221;.</p>
<p>With a mandatory philosophy course (hopefully for at least two years in high school), students will learn to think for themselves, evaluate different views of life, science, etc., and engage in much needed class discussion. Philosophy helps to create the &#8220;big picture&#8221; that teachers are always trying to make students understand; its broad application to various aspects of life gives a sense of practicality to seemingly useless concepts.</p>
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		<title>By: eswrite</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-2/#comment-9737</link>
		<dc:creator>eswrite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9737</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t dream this stuff up, can you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t dream this stuff up, can you?</p>
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		<title>By: DonaldM</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-9731</link>
		<dc:creator>DonaldM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9731</guid>
		<description>Crandaddy wrote: &lt;blockquote&gt;I want to take this opportunity to say that I fully believe that a basic introduction to philosophy and critical thinking should be required for all students before they graduate from high school, and a part of this course should be dedicated to the philosophy of science.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I like that idea a lot.  One of the main weapons used in the anti-ID campaign is a restrictive view of what science is.  If students had a better understanding of the history and philosophy of science, they would come to see that a lot of what is said is fraught with philosophical and logical problems of every sort.  

It will be ineteresting to see what comes of this lawsuit.  A lot of these sorts of issues will likely be raised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crandaddy wrote:<br />
<blockquote>I want to take this opportunity to say that I fully believe that a basic introduction to philosophy and critical thinking should be required for all students before they graduate from high school, and a part of this course should be dedicated to the philosophy of science.</p></blockquote>
<p>I like that idea a lot.  One of the main weapons used in the anti-ID campaign is a restrictive view of what science is.  If students had a better understanding of the history and philosophy of science, they would come to see that a lot of what is said is fraught with philosophical and logical problems of every sort.  </p>
<p>It will be ineteresting to see what comes of this lawsuit.  A lot of these sorts of issues will likely be raised.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ICtfIAm</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-9671</link>
		<dc:creator>ICtfIAm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9671</guid>
		<description>crandaddy - &quot;I want to take this opportunity to say that I fully believe that a basic introduction to philosophy and critical thinking should be required for all students before they graduate from high school, and a part of this course should be dedicated to the philosophy of science. I strongly believe that the ability to think properly is at least almost as important as the ability to read or solve simple mathematical problems. One big problem with the United States is that the majority of its people donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know how to think for themselves and, therefore, are the hapless victims of a political tug of war.&quot;

I&#039;m in full agreement here.  We have largely been victims of educational mediocrity in the last 30 or so years.  Diploma mills are everywhere, and education for its material benefits seems to be the status quo.  I did not have any interest in religion or philosophy until after I graduated from High School, and well into my college years.  This was largely due to my upbringing.  I&#039;m a baby-boomer, and my parents raised me with the prime directive:  &quot;support yourself.&quot;  All of this is well and good, but it works within the framework of an industrial society only.  Other societies do not have such concerns, because they are more communal and dependent upon collective statuses, rather than on the status of the individual. 

Philosophy and the humanities are seen as valueless in Western culture.  In fact, they are the heresies within our educational institutions, because they factor in issues that detract from the goal of industry.  Things are changing, though.  The &quot;information age&quot; finds itself in need of more and more information, and raw scientism is not providing enough.  Postmodernism, though is creating information that is more esoteric in nature, and is not grounded in the traditional rules of logic.  Therefore, confusion abounds as to what is valid reasoning, and what is not.  &quot;Your thinking is as good as mine.&quot;  &quot;Your truth is not my truth.&quot;  Tolerance of all POVs is the new prime directive.  Yet it is not a consistent tolerance.  It is not tolerant of those who hold views that clash with the unwriten orthodoxy of acceptance.  So confusing.  The good Star Trek fan that I am, I would say that we are all being assimilated.  Resistance is futile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>crandaddy &#8211; &#8220;I want to take this opportunity to say that I fully believe that a basic introduction to philosophy and critical thinking should be required for all students before they graduate from high school, and a part of this course should be dedicated to the philosophy of science. I strongly believe that the ability to think properly is at least almost as important as the ability to read or solve simple mathematical problems. One big problem with the United States is that the majority of its people donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know how to think for themselves and, therefore, are the hapless victims of a political tug of war.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in full agreement here.  We have largely been victims of educational mediocrity in the last 30 or so years.  Diploma mills are everywhere, and education for its material benefits seems to be the status quo.  I did not have any interest in religion or philosophy until after I graduated from High School, and well into my college years.  This was largely due to my upbringing.  I&#8217;m a baby-boomer, and my parents raised me with the prime directive:  &#8220;support yourself.&#8221;  All of this is well and good, but it works within the framework of an industrial society only.  Other societies do not have such concerns, because they are more communal and dependent upon collective statuses, rather than on the status of the individual. </p>
<p>Philosophy and the humanities are seen as valueless in Western culture.  In fact, they are the heresies within our educational institutions, because they factor in issues that detract from the goal of industry.  Things are changing, though.  The &#8220;information age&#8221; finds itself in need of more and more information, and raw scientism is not providing enough.  Postmodernism, though is creating information that is more esoteric in nature, and is not grounded in the traditional rules of logic.  Therefore, confusion abounds as to what is valid reasoning, and what is not.  &#8220;Your thinking is as good as mine.&#8221;  &#8220;Your truth is not my truth.&#8221;  Tolerance of all POVs is the new prime directive.  Yet it is not a consistent tolerance.  It is not tolerant of those who hold views that clash with the unwriten orthodoxy of acceptance.  So confusing.  The good Star Trek fan that I am, I would say that we are all being assimilated.  Resistance is futile.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-9670</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9670</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing wmmalo burned a bridge there.  That happens when one is prone to spontaneous self-combustion. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m guessing wmmalo burned a bridge there.  That happens when one is prone to spontaneous self-combustion. <img src='http://www.uncommondescent.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DaveScot</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/not-with-our-tax-dollars-you-dont/comment-page-1/#comment-9667</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveScot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/396#comment-9667</guid>
		<description>Go Caldwell!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go Caldwell!</p>
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