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No evidence that there is enough time for evolution

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No evidence that there is enough time for evolution[*]

Lee M Spetner

Redoxia Israel, Ltd. 27 Hakablan St., Jerusalem, Israel

Abstract: A recent attempt was made to resolve the heretofore unaddressed issue of the estimated time for evolution, concluding that there was plenty of time. This would have been a very significant result had it been correct. It turns out, however, that the assumptions made in formulating the model of evolution were faulty and the conclusion of that attempt is therefore unsubstantiated.

[This post will remain at the top of the page until 00 hours Tuesday May 31. For reader convenience, other coverage continues below. – UD News]

 

The standard neo-Darwinian theory accounts for evolution as the result of long sequences of random mutations each filtered by natural selection. The random nature of this basic mechanism makes evolutionary events random. The theory must therefore be tested by estimating the probabilities of those events. This probability calculation has, however, not yet been adequately addressed.

Wilf & Ewens [2010] (W&E) recently attempted to address this issue, but their attempt was unsuccessful. Their model of the evolutionary process omitted important features of evolution invalidating their conclusions. They considered a genome consisting of L loci (genes), and an evolutionary process in which each allele at these loci would eventually mutate so that the final genome would be of a more “superior” or “advanced” type. They let K-1 be the fraction of potential alleles at each gene locus that would contribute to the “superior” genome. They modeled the evolutionary process as a random guessing of the letters of a word. The word has L letters in an alphabet of K letters. In each round of guessing, each letter can be changed and could be converted to a “superior” letter with probability K-1.

At the outset they stated the two goals of their study, neither of which they achieved. Their first goal was to “to indicate why an evolutionary model often used to ‘discredit’ Darwin, leading to the ‘not enough time’ claim, is inappropriate.” Their second goal was “to find the mathematical properties of a more appropriate model.”  They described what they called the “inappropriate model” as follows:

“The paradigm used in the incorrect argument is often formalized as follows:  Suppose that we are trying to find a specific unknown word of L letters, each of the letters having been chosen from an alphabet of K letters. We want to find the word by means of a sequence of rounds of guessing letters.  A single round consists in guessing all of the letters of the word by choosing, for each letter, a randomly chosen letter from the alphabet.  If the correct word is not found, a new sequence is guessed, and the procedure is continued until the correct sequence is found.  Under this paradigm the mean number of rounds of guessing until the correct sequence is found is indeed KL.”

They gave no reference for such a model and, to my knowledge, no responsible person has ever proposed such a model for the evolutionary process to “discredit” Darwin. Such a model had indeed been suggested by many, not for the evolutionary process, but for abiogenesis (e.g., [Hoyle & Wickramasinghe 1981]) where it is indeed appropriate. Their first goal was not achieved.

They then described their own model, which they called “a more appropriate model.” On the basis of their model, they concluded that the mean time for evolution increases as K log L, in contrast to KL of the “inappropriate” model. They called the first model “serial” and said that their “more correct” model of evolution was “parallel”.  Their characterization of “serial” and “parallel” for the above two models is mistaken. Evolution is a serial process, not a parallel one, and their model of the first, or “inappropriate”, process is better characterized as “simultaneous” than “serial” because the choosing of the sequence (either nucleotides or amino acids) is simultaneous. What they called their “more appropriate” model is the following:

“After guessing each of the letters, we are told which (if any) of the guessed letters are correct, and then those letters are retained. The second round of guessing is applied only for the incorrect letters that remain after this first round, and so forth. This procedure mimics the ‘in parallel’ evolutionary process.”

W&E were mistaken in thinking the evolutionary process to be an in-parallel one — it is an in-series one. A rare adaptive mutation may occur in one locus of the genome of a gamete of some individual, will become manifest in the genome of a single individual of the next generation, and will be heritable to future generations. If this mutation grants the individual an advantage leading to it having more progeny than its nonmutated contemporaries, the new genome’s representation in the population will tend to increase exponentially and eventually it may take over the population.

Let p be the probability that in a particular generation, (1) an adaptive mutation will occur in some individual in the population, and (2) the mutated genome will eventually take over the population. If both these should happen, then we could say that one evolutionary step has occurred. The mean number of generations (waiting time) for the appearance of such a mutation and its subsequent population takeover is 1/p. (I am ignoring the generations needed for a successful adaptive mutation to take over the population. These generations must be added to the waiting time for a successful adaptive mutation to occur.)  After the successful adaptive mutation has taken over the population, the appearance of another adaptive mutation can start another step.

In L steps of this kind, L new alleles will be incorporated into the mean genome of the population. These steps occur in series and the mean waiting time for L such steps is just L times the waiting time for one of them, or L/p. Thus the number of generations needed to modify L alleles is linear in L and not logarithmic as concluded from the flawed analysis of W&E.

The flaws in the analysis of W&E lie in the faulty assumptions on which their model is based. The “word” that is the target of the guessing game is meant to play the role of the set of genes in the genome and the “letters” are meant to play the role of the genes. A round of guessing represents a generation. Guessing a correct letter represents the occurrence of a potentially adaptive mutation in a particular gene in some individual in the population. There are K letters in their alphabet, so that the probability of guessing the correct letter is K-1. They wrote that

1– (1 – 1/K)r

is the probability that the first letter of the word will be correctly guessed in no more than r rounds of guessing. It is also, of course, the probability that any other specific letter would be guessed. Then they wrote that

[1– (1 – 1/K)r]L

is the probability that all L letters will be guessed in no more than r rounds. The event whose probability is the first of the above two expressions is the occurrence in r rounds of at least one correct guess of a letter. This corresponds to the appearance of an adaptive mutation in some individual in the population. That of the second expression is the occurrence of L of them. From these probability expressions we see that according to W&E each round of guessing yields as many correct letters as are lucky enough to be guessed. The correct guesses in a round remain thereafter unchanged, and guessing proceeds in successive rounds only on the remaining letters.

Their model does not mimic natural selection at all. In one generation, according to the model, some number of potentially adaptive mutations may occur, each most likely in a different individual. W&E postulate that these mutations remain in the population and are not changed. Contrary to their intention, this event is not yet evolution, because the mutations have occurred only in single individuals and have not become characteristic of the population. Moreover, W&E have ignored the important fact that a single mutation, even if it has a large selection coefficient, has a high probability of disappearing through random effects [Fisher 1958]. They allow further mutations only in those loci that have not mutated into the “superior” form. It is not clear if they intended that mutations be forbidden in those mutated loci only in those individuals that have the mutation or in other individuals as well. They have ignored the fact that evolution does not occur until an adaptive mutation has taken over the population and thereby becomes a characteristic of the population. Their letter-guessing game is more a parody of the evolutionary process than a model of it. They have not achieved their second goal either.

Thus their conclusion that “there’s plenty of time for evolution” is unsubstantiated. The probability calculation to justify evolutionary theory remains unaddressed.

References

Fisher, R. A. (1958). The Genetical Theory of Natural Selection, Oxford. Second revised edition, New York: Dover. [First published in 1929]

Hoyle, F. and N. C. Wickramasinghe, (1981). Evolution from Space, London: Dent.

Wilf, H. S. & Ewens, W. J.  (2010) There’s plenty of time for evolution. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 107 (52): 22454-22456.


[*] This paper is a critique of a paper that appeared recently in the Proceedings National Academy of Sciences USA and rightfully should have been published there. It was submitted there and was rejected without review and the reason given was that the Board did not find it “to be of sufficient interest for publication.” When I noted how unreasonable this reply was, the editor replied that the paper “makes some obvious and elementary points of no relevance to the paper, and in my opinion does not warrant publication.” The Board then refused to comment further on the matter. It was clear that the Board’s rejection was not on the merit of the substance of the paper but for some other, undisclosed reason.

Comments
ellazimm, David Goldberg's Genetic Algorithms in Search, Optimization and Machine Learning is one of the classics. If you're just interested in getting your hands dirty quickly, the comp.ai.genetic FAQ is a dated but good start. There are also libraries available for most programming languages, discoverable through Google. Finally, to tie this back to some earlier discussions, the various GA solutions to the Steiner problem are based on GA engines, most of which are open source, if I remember correctly. What languages are you interested in using?MathGrrl
June 2, 2011
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Upright BiPed,
You say I never articulated my argument. Yet somehow that didn’t stop you from claiming that I was "equivocating", did it not?
I explained myself in the original thread, in comment 52:
I’ve responded to my interpretation of your statements, based on similar arguments from equivocation I’ve seen in the past. The few hints you’ve given to your thought process suggest to me that you are mired in a similar fallacy. You have not, however, clearly stated your argument nor summarized the evidence you believe supports it. Rather than continuing to speculate on what it is you are trying to say, I have invited you to provide more clarity.
I extend the invitation again. Perhaps once I understand exactly what you're talking about, I'll be able to answer your question.MathGrrl
June 2, 2011
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Here is the final post in our previous exchange Mathgrrl, I invite you to deal with it straight up. - - - - - You see Mathgrrl, the only way your objection can make any sense at all, is if you can substantiate a distinction where one relationship is a code, while another only acts as a code. Without that distinction, then you cannot say there is an “equivocation”. I do not believe that you can make that distinction, therefore your claim of an equivocation is absolutely meaningless. Prove me wrong.Upright BiPed
June 2, 2011
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Mathgrrl, You say I never articulated my argument. Yet somehow that didn't stop you from claiming that I was "equivocating", did it not? Did you not say that I was "mistaking my map for the territory"? So are you now just going to repeat your claim that it is unreasonable for me to ask you to substantiate the objections you've already made? Did you not say that I was equivocating? Did you not repeat that claim several times? Yes you did, or no you did not? Which is it? So my question still stands. For you to say there is an equivocation, then you must first know of a distinction. So lay it out, Mathgrrl. How do you make the distinction that one thing acts as a code, while another thing is a code?Upright BiPed
June 2, 2011
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MathGrrl: Hey! I've got a question: Can you tell me a good online resource that I can access that explains GA programming? Let's open that up to everyone actually. I know a few programming languages but I have no experience with GA stuff. Where can I go for a decent primer?ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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UB: I'm not going to defend MathGrrl. I didn't even follow much of that thread. So I'm not going to condemn her either. I don't read her blog or markf's. I listen to ID: the future, read Evolution News and Reviews and I'm on the Discovery Institute's emailing list. In the past I have exchanged emails with Casey Lusken. I am not responsible for anyone but myself. Maybe MathGrrl thought she had answered your questions. Maybe Dr MacNeil's life turned hideous and he hasn't had time to come back. I don't know either of them. I don't even know (or care) who MathGrrl really is. You're going to have to take up your disagreements with them with them.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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Upright BiPed,
Recently, Mathgrrl claimed I was misinterpretiong the evidence. She said I was equivocating on the presence of an actual code in DNA. I stood here for two weeks trying to get to show me the distinction between a system that ACTS like a code as oppossed to one that IS a code. For there to even BE an equivocation, then she must know of a distinction. Did she ever provide that distinction? No.
You apparently misremember the discussion. As I pointed out several times in that thread (comment 57), you never clearly stated your argument nor summarized the evidence you believe supports it. Based on the limited information you did provide, I noted that you seemed to be confusing the map with the territory. I told you there that I would be happy to discuss your argument further whenever you were willing to articulate it and your evidence clearly. Should you choose to do so, I am still interested. PS to kairosfocus and Mung: The Footnote thread has been closed to comments. I've replied to both of you in the closest to on-topic thread I could find.MathGrrl
June 2, 2011
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BA77: "It is horrendous and appalling that neo-Darwinists are allowed to get away with such tripe, and moreover that you personally would cosign such shallow and despicable practices!!" Hang on. I didn't say I agreed with the style. I have always been honest about my opinion so that shouldn't surprise you. The 'God wouldn't have done it that way' is an argument against ID not for common descent with modification. That's the way I see it. And I've promised not to pull that argument here anymore. Look, I've come to terms with the fact that a lot of people disagree with me but I don't think less of them as long as they're being honest and straight. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and now I believe you are playing straight. Do you really think your 'opponents' are despicable?ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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Hello again Ella, If someone thinks I (personally) am misinterpreting the evidence, that is fine. For their claim to be scientific, or even to appeal to the values of science, it must be validated in some way. That is the part that is missing. Recently, Mathgrrl claimed I was misinterpretiong the evidence. She said I was equivocating on the presence of an actual code in DNA. I stood here for two weeks trying to get to show me the distinction between a system that ACTS like a code as oppossed to one that IS a code. For there to even BE an equivocation, then she must know of a distinction. Did she ever provide that distinction? No. I asked Prof MacNeil on these very pages if DNA contains "meaningful information" and he said yes. I then asked if "meaningful information" required perception (observation, to be sensed or experienced in some manner) in order to come into existence, and he said yes. I then asked if the meaningful information in DNA fell under that requirement. Did he ever answer? No, he left the conversation and refused to return. - - - - - - - Actually engaging the evidence of ID is never on the agenda.Upright BiPed
June 2, 2011
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ellazimm, the paper that showed Darwinism was a theological argument from the get go, resonated loudly with me, for it hit the nail on the head for the exact type of argumentation that neo-Darwinists make today, especially in regards to "junk DNA", the 'backwards retina' of just recently overturned stature, and moreover the vestigial organ argument of a longer history. i.e. neo-Darwinists prey on ignorance of any biological function so as to declare, completely without solid merit, non-functionality, and thus God would have not done it that way. It is horrendous and appalling that neo-Darwinists are allowed to get away with such tripe, and moreover that you personally would cosign such shallow and despicable practices!!bornagain77
June 2, 2011
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UB: "Given?" Well, I think so. Just an opinion. I agree with you about the standard. The people who decry ID are looking at the evidence as they see it. You disagree. I think . . . I know they think you're misinterpreting the evidence. It's not the standard that's been degraded, there's no conspiracy. You're not viewed as seeing all the evidence. Please don't shout at me. I'm only saying things you already know. Don't shoot the messenger.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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"given that the biological community is not going to agree with a book by Drs Meyer (or Wells or Behe or Dembski)" Given? Ella, the value that the greatest of scientists gave to the world (Newton, Maxwell, Gallileo, Pasteur, etc etc etc) is that their scientific output was not based upon them sheparding their worldview, but upon them having a deep respect for the evidence itself. Is it too much to ask that such a standard remain in science forever? Or have we reached a point in knowledge and culture that such standards can be cast down and replaced with the scientific grounding that animates the likes of PZ Meyer?Upright BiPed
June 2, 2011
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UB: Well, you don't have to read the reviews either!! I know what you mean though. Brings up an interesting point . . . given that the biological community is not going to agree with a book by Drs Meyer (or Wells or Behe or Dembski) is it worse having it vilified in the press or ignored? Partly, at least, negative reviews get the books into the public eye and some people will find them because of that. What did Oscar Wilde say? The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. I think.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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Ella....a wise choice. Of course, we on this side of the fence don't have that luxury.Upright BiPed
June 2, 2011
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UB: I'll take your word on it; not having read the book myself. I did hear several interviews with him via ID: the future and some other sources. I never even read any reviews, I only found that issue I brought up via Wikipedia this morning. I never heard any of the uproar; I don't pay much attention to that kind of thing anyway.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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BA77: I've heard about it. I'm not really smart enough about that stuff to judge. And, as I've said, I've never even read the book. And, as I've said, my own support for the modern synthesis is based on other things. If all we had was Darwin's original arguments then I think they would be worth tearing to shreds. He got some things wrong but his evidence has been built upon for 150 years. If he got the basic outline wrong he would be a sideshow now, like Lamarck. I feel the same way about any science: it's the modern, updated versions that count. That's one of the reasons I don't refer to common descent with modification as Darwinism. It's gone way beyond him now. When we refer to Newtonian mechanics we know we are referring to old, limited models.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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Ella, he made no mistake. He was taking a lay audience through a layering of complex issues. He described it as a protein complex (which it is) and later he described it in greater detail - naming peptidyl transferase as the active constituent. The issue was not the book, it was the rabid response to having these issues explained to laypeople. An educated layperson is the absolute bain of the scientism cult. :)Upright BiPed
June 2, 2011
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UB: I bet next time he checks his proofs (pre-publication copies sent to the author and reviewers) more carefully!! Mistakes do happen, obviously . . . I think some of the reviewers were surprised there were some that were so obvious but . . . it happens.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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ellazimm, speaking of lots of books having mistakes,,, Have you noticed the recent peer-reviewed paper that found Darwin's masterwork book, "Origin Of Species", was actually a Theological book infused with Theological presuppositions, about how God would and wouldn't act, as opposed to being a purely science book infused with merely a unbiased presentation of evidence??? Charles Darwin, Theologian: Major New Article on Darwin's Use of Theology in the Origin of Species - May 2011 http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/05/charles_darwin_theologian_majo046391.html ============== "Certainly, my own research with antibiotics during World War II received no guidance from insights provided by Darwinian evolution. Nor did Alexander Fleming's discovery of bacterial inhibition by penicillin. I recently asked more than 70 eminent researchers if they would have done their work differently if they had thought Darwin's theory was wrong. The responses were all the same: No. Philip S. Skell - Professor at Pennsylvania State University. http://www.discovery.org/a/2816 Is evolution pseudoscience? Excerpt:,,, Thus, of the ten characteristics of pseudoscience listed in the Skeptic’s Dictionary, evolution meets nine. Few other?pseudosciences — astrology, astral projection, alien abduction, crystal power, or whatever — would meet so many. http://creation.com/is-evolution-pseudosciencebornagain77
June 2, 2011
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Ella, PAV, Soon after SitC was published, the materialist horde went apopletic on the Amazon forums when it was discovered that early in the book Dr Meyer dscribed the ribosome as a protein complex. He was repeatedly accused of lying to the stupid Jesus people in order to keep them from the knowledge that an RNA had been found in the Ribosome that actually did the catalytic work. The phrase "peptidyl transferase" was used to bludgeon anyone who dared to come to Meyer's defense. The phrase "Meyer is a LIAR" was repeated over and over and over again. Not only was Meyer a LIAR, but Skell and anyone else who positively reviewed the book were LIARS as well. It made no difference to them that a few pages later he specifically describes the RNA catalytic action. Nor did it matter that where Meyer refered to the ribosome as a protein he did it in a context that had no bearing whatsoever on the issues at hand. Materialist are a desperate bunch in many ways, and counter-intuitively, they become more desperate the more we know about matter.Upright BiPed
June 2, 2011
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PaV: I figure it was a type, lots of books have mistakes. I only brought it up initially to see what the fuss was about. Turned out to be nothing that got fixed in the paperback edition. Pffft. Yeah, that does happen. I'm trying to avoid snap judgements. I figure you got spend some time if you want to see the best in something and not the worst.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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ellazimm: I have a copy of SitC: it has bacteria in both places. But I have a paperback version. It's possible the hypothetical mistake was corrected; but, of course, it's possible it was never there. However, it is typical of those who are not in pursuit of the truth to want to cling to their erroneous views simply because somebody with an opposite viewpoint has made a mistake. It's one thing when the mistake undermines the conclusion being made, but when it is simply the case where someone has used the wrong terminology, but without affecting the argument, then anyone interested in the truth would simply overlook such an error. But not Darwinists. Which tells us they're perhaps not really interested in the truth, but in simply believing themselves to be 'right'.PaV
June 2, 2011
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Joseph: Well, I haven't got the book so I can't look it up but the claim is that Dr Meyer mistook Pneumococcus (a bacteria) for a virus somehow. Oh wait, I found the review and the quote from SitC: "If a deadly strain of the bacteria was first heated to death, the strain was harmless when injected into mice. No surprise there. The mice were also unharmed when injected with a living but nonvirulent strain of the virus." Ah, I see, he starts off talking about a bacteria and then uses the term virus.ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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ellazimm:
According to Stephen Matheson, a developmental cell biologist at Calvin College, Dr Meyer made a basic error on page 66 of Signature in the Cell mistaking a virus for a bacteria. Is that true??
Not unless Pneumococci is a virus that Dr Avery was injecting into mice.Joseph
June 2, 2011
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Wha is it about the current theory of evolution that has you persuaded? To date there isn't any evidece that an accumulation ofgenetic accidents can construct useful, functional multi-part systems, so what does the theory have?Joseph
June 2, 2011
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I've read Darwin's Black Box, BTW. Obviously, I wasn't persuaded :) I'll try to take another look at Signature in the Cell.Elizabeth Liddle
June 2, 2011
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Apologies, I messed up the blockquote tags above. Mung's words end at "Information 101" and the indented text is mine (quoted by Mung). The reference is to post 69Elizabeth Liddle
June 2, 2011
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Mung, at
My more serious point was that English is very “brittle” and highly redundant
To me, that statement sounds self-contradictory. Redundancy is just the sort of thing one would want to cure brittleness. Information Theory 101. Well, there must be a communication problem here, maybe over the my use of the word "redundant". So let me rephrase: English is very "brittle" in that there are a great meany combinations of words and sounds that have no referent. In this sense there is a high proportion of "redundant" code - possible sequences that have no assigned referent. In contrast (and I would argue because there is no "assignment" process, just physical and chemical laws), in the case of DNA, there are many possible alleles of a gene that make a functional protein, or regulate the expression of a protein according to a viable time-table or level of incoming chemical input. In that sense it is less "redundant" - more possible combos result in viable output, and so less easy to "break" (i.e. less "brittle") This is why I find the analogy often made between mutations to a gene and misprints in a text. A better analogy would be misprints in a bank statement, 50% of which will be advantageous to at least one of the parties :) But neither analogy is good, as both ignore the fact that in living things, the probability of even a rare advantageous mutation propagating through the population has a strong positive bias (by definition).Elizabeth Liddle
June 2, 2011
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Mung: According to Stephen Matheson, a developmental cell biologist at Calvin College, Dr Meyer made a basic error on page 66 of Signature in the Cell mistaking a virus for a bacteria. Is that true??ellazimm
June 2, 2011
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lol. Funny you should mention the Yarus paper. Didn't someone else just suggest in another thread that you should read it? UprightBiped comes to mind. Now to be sure I agree with you about Sanford's book, it's confusing on a number of levels and doesn't present a compellingly coherent argument. But Signature in the Cell is altogether different, as is Darwin's Black Box. But again, in the same way that I think you didn't understand the thesis of Sanford's book, it also appears you don't understand the thesis of SitC. It's not about complexity at all. It's about information and information systems. You really should read it with an open mind and try to understand the arguments. It's one of the best ID books out there.Mung
June 1, 2011
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