Home » Darwinism, Evolution, Intelligent Design » Larry Moran — Will the real idiot please stand up?

Larry Moran — Will the real idiot please stand up?

Larry Moran has been getting some play on this blog, so I’ll throw in my two cents. I met Larry in 2002, when he attended a lecture I gave at U of Toronto and confidently explained to me and the audience how indirect Darwinian pathways explain the evolution of the flagellum from the type three secretory system. To this day it amazes me that people find so bogus an argument a slam dunk for evolutionary theory. Try explaining to an engineer that the origin of the laptop computer is the product of trial and error tinkering from a cathode ray tube. If anything, this analogy fails to capture the full measure of self-delusion that evolutionary theory has become.

Below is Larry’s recommendation on what to do with students who support ID. Let me suggest that it is an empirical question whether college students who support ID are smarter, dumber, or comparable to college students who support Larry’s brand of evolution — IQ tests, SAT and ACT tests, longitudinal studies of academic and life success, etc. can all be carried out on the two groups. I would venture that students who are ID supporters come out ahead (in part because they need to display the independence of spirit and intellect needed to face down bullies like Moran):

Flunk the IDiots

Casey Luskin over at the Discovery Institute reported that University of California, San Diego Forces All Freshmen To Attend Anti-ID Lecture. Apparently, the university has become alarmed at the stupidity of its freshman class and has offered remedial instruction for those who believe in Intelligent Design Creationism.

Salvador Cordova has picked up on this at Dembski’s blog, Uncommon Descent in an article titled “Darwinian indoctrination required at UCSD? Or will the other side be heard someday?”. He notes that 40% of the freshman class reject Darwinism.

I agree with the Dembski sycophants that UCSD should not have required their uneducated students to attend remedial classes. Instead, they should never have admitted them in the first place. Having made that mistake, it’s hopeless to expect that a single lecture—even one by a distinguished scholar like Robert Pennock—will have any effect. The University should just flunk the lot of them and make room for smart students who have a chance of benefiting from a high quality education.

SOURCE: http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2006/11/flunk-idiots.html

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17 Responses to Larry Moran — Will the real idiot please stand up?

  1. Larry cannot even answer a couple simple questions about the bacterial flagellum. He continually conflates ID and Creation (no surprise) as well as ID with religion (however he didn’t say which religion).

    IOW he is an intellectual coward and I am looking forward to telling him that to his face.

  2. [Larry Moran] confidently explained to me and the audience how indirect Darwinian pathways explain the evolution of the flagellum from the type three secretory system. To this day it amazes me that people find so bogus an argument a slam dunk for evolutionary theory.

    It is interesting that “scientists” like Moran never ask the hard questions about the “indirect Darwinian pathways” that supposedly, through the hypothetical process of co-option, produced these machines. When it comes to claims of Darwinian theory, they just accept fantastic, made-up stories as proven fact, with none of the skepticism that we are told is a hallmark of good science.

    For some of those hard questions people like Moran need to ask, see:

    http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1276

  3. Big shocker – he’s also an atheist fundamentalist…

    http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2.....wimps.html

    Funny how atheism and blind zealotry for the Darwinian mystery religion so often go hand in hand.

  4. Bill,

    it is hard to believe how much a person can be intolerant in his support for NDE when this is needed to save his atheistic faith.
    Concerning the character, I would apply the well know say:
    “Buy him for what he’s worth and sell him for what he thinks he’s worth”

  5. Professor Moran likes to fail people probably regardless of their views. As he just laughs at students who ask for help in passing a course on the student forums at U of T. Plus, he’s truly a real idiot for writing that Neil Peart is a wimp. Neil Peart is one of the greatest musical geniuses of our time and if not the greatest drummer ever.

  6. I saw a picture of him. He looks like a real winner, a real fair-minded, decent sort of fellow, the kind of person who would never belittle someone else, who would never use his authority to make things difficult for people he didn’t agree with or didn’t like. (Excuse me, I seem to be experiencing a sort of mental dyslexia.)

  7. Dr. Dembski,

    “Let me suggest that it is an empirical question whether college students who support ID are smarter, dumber, or comparable to college students who support Larry’s brand of evolution — IQ tests, SAT and ACT tests, longitudinal studies of academic and life success, etc. can all be carried out on the two groups. I would venture that students who are ID supporters come out ahead (in part because they need to display the independence of spirit and intellect needed to face down bullies like Moran): ….”

    I am an ID Creationist – a Creationist who is interested in ID. Not only that, but I am a Young Earth Creationist. (Scary, I know.) And I have consistently scored in the 99+ percentiles on tests. On the SAT, back in the Fall of 1980, I scored 1420 composite (rougly equivalent to a 1480 nowadays) (without preparation or really trying [seriously]); around the same time, I scored 31 composite on the ACT. On an official IQ test I took in 1985 which was administered by a graduate student attending the University of Notre Dame, she commented, somewhat excitedly, at one point after having gone over my multiple choice scores on the test, “I’ve never had anyone score as high on this test”.

    I wonder if my views on ID and Creationism indicate that all my test scores were just flukes. One never knows which Multiverse one might happen to be in.

  8. Douglas

    Jonathan Wells got a perfect 1600 on the SAT. The old pre-recentered SAT. That correlates with an intellect in the 99.999th percentile or IQ of at least 168.

    The heck of it is that’s just a minimum. He aced the test so it was insufficient to measure his IQ. All it did in his case was establish a minimum.

  9. I suspect it has more to do with personality and emotional preferences than intelligence.

  10. The deification of intellect is extremely dangerous, just as is any other form of idol worship. I don’t give a damn about IQ; I care about goodness.

  11. Well said, GilDodgen.

  12. Yes Gil, I agree entirely. I fear the society which places intellect upon too high of a pedestal– a society in which talents and achievements are considered more valuable than ethical values and in which the charge of being “stupid” is considered a worse insult than that of being “evil”. A society all too familiar…

  13. #10,11

    I also completely agree, especially reminding some magnificent words of Gospel. However, this argument is not for us but for whom aren’t aware of this and more and more use the IQ argument to discredit non-atheistic or non-agnostic people.

  14. I also care about goodness but I realize it takes some amount of intellect to know what is good and what is bad.

    I also know what is good to one person or society may not be good to another.

  15. New (possible) definitions:

    IDist- a person who understands and supports Intelligent Design

    IDer- an Intelligent Designer

    IDiot- a person who does not understand ID and chooses misrepresentation and lies in an attempt to refute it.

  16. W. Dembski:
    “it is an empirical question whether college students who support ID are smarter, dumber, or comparable to college students who support Larry’s brand of evolution — IQ tests, SAT and ACT tests, longitudinal studies of academic and life success, etc. can all be carried out on the two groups. I would venture that students who are ID supporters come out ahead …”

    One data point (modestly;):
    I…
    – Graduated Summa Cum Laude, BS, Biology, GPA 3.9+ from a major university.
    – Graduated first in my class, M.D., at a very prestigious private U.S. School of Medicine.
    And I…
    – No longer accept Darwinism
    – Think ID has a lot to offer toward understanding life
    – Really like panspermia as a comprehensive theory and replacement for Darwinism.
    http://www.panspermia.org/

  17. [...] Professor Larry Moran demanded pro-ID and pro-Creation students at universities be flunked. See Larry Moran — Will the real idiot please stand up? [...]

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