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	<title>Comments on: It Seems Frontloading is Everywhere</title>
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		<title>By: bornagain77</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132856</link>
		<dc:creator>bornagain77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Doesn&#039;t the mutation in mice actually lose information in the genome? Isn&#039;t there less color variation in the mice than what was present in the &quot;unmutated&quot; genome on the mouse. 
 I think this falls in line with the fact that &quot;younger&quot; races of humans have less variation for color than the original humans that are thought to have migrated out of east Africa 50,000 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t the mutation in mice actually lose information in the genome? Isn&#8217;t there less color variation in the mice than what was present in the &#8220;unmutated&#8221; genome on the mouse.<br />
 I think this falls in line with the fact that &#8220;younger&#8221; races of humans have less variation for color than the original humans that are thought to have migrated out of east Africa 50,000 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Atom</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132846</link>
		<dc:creator>Atom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Janice,
&lt;blockquote&gt;Hope that makes some sense to...Java programmers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It does. You may be on to something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janice,</p>
<blockquote><p>Hope that makes some sense to&#8230;Java programmers.</p></blockquote>
<p>It does. You may be on to something.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PaV</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132842</link>
		<dc:creator>PaV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/#comment-132842</guid>
		<description>[Off-topic]

Here&#039;s a link to a PLoS Biology article about mice coloration.  Seems like all you see is a &quot;single&quot; mutation.  I think it&#039;s interesting in light of Behe&#039;s EoE.  Maybe someone wants to start a thread on it.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&amp;doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0050219&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;  Here&#039;s the link. &lt;/a&gt;  

And here&#039;s the &quot;Author Summary&quot;:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The tremendous amount of variation in color patterns among organisms helps individuals survive and reproduce in the wild, yet we know surprisingly little about the genes that produce these adaptive patterns. Here we used a genomic analysis to uncover the molecular basis of a pale color pattern that camouflages beach mice inhabiting the sandy dunes of Florida&#039;s coast from predators. We identified two pigmentation genes, the melanocortin-1 receptor (Mc1r) and its ligand, the agouti signaling protein (Agouti), which together produce a light color pattern. We show that this light pigmentation results partly from a single amino acid mutation in Mc1r, which reduces the activity of the receptor but does not affect the gene&#039;s expression level, and partly from the derived Agouti allele, which shows no change in protein sequence but does exhibit an increase in mRNA expression. We also show that these two genes do not act additively to produce pale color; rather, the derived Agouti allele must be present to see any effect of Mc1r on pigmentation. Thus, the light color pattern of beach mice largely results from the physical interaction between a structural change in a receptor (reducing Mc1r activity) and a regulatory change in the receptor&#039;s antagonist (increasing Agouti expression).&quot;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Off-topic]</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link to a PLoS Biology article about mice coloration.  Seems like all you see is a &#8220;single&#8221; mutation.  I think it&#8217;s interesting in light of Behe&#8217;s EoE.  Maybe someone wants to start a thread on it.</p>
<p><a href="http://biology.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&amp;doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0050219" rel="nofollow">  Here&#8217;s the link. </a>  </p>
<p>And here&#8217;s the &#8220;Author Summary&#8221;:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The tremendous amount of variation in color patterns among organisms helps individuals survive and reproduce in the wild, yet we know surprisingly little about the genes that produce these adaptive patterns. Here we used a genomic analysis to uncover the molecular basis of a pale color pattern that camouflages beach mice inhabiting the sandy dunes of Florida&#8217;s coast from predators. We identified two pigmentation genes, the melanocortin-1 receptor (Mc1r) and its ligand, the agouti signaling protein (Agouti), which together produce a light color pattern. We show that this light pigmentation results partly from a single amino acid mutation in Mc1r, which reduces the activity of the receptor but does not affect the gene&#8217;s expression level, and partly from the derived Agouti allele, which shows no change in protein sequence but does exhibit an increase in mRNA expression. We also show that these two genes do not act additively to produce pale color; rather, the derived Agouti allele must be present to see any effect of Mc1r on pigmentation. Thus, the light color pattern of beach mice largely results from the physical interaction between a structural change in a receptor (reducing Mc1r activity) and a regulatory change in the receptor&#8217;s antagonist (increasing Agouti expression).&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Janice</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132809</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/#comment-132809</guid>
		<description>Fascinating! I mean both bornagain77&#039;s comment and the PhysOrg article.

I wonder if what&#039;s going on is not frontloading but overloading, as in Java.  Maybe DNA codes methods something like Vertebrate.makeRearAppendages(seaCreature, shark).  Then you could also have Vertebrate.makeRearAppendages(landCreature, cow) and so on and so forth.  

Hope that makes some sense to skilled Java programmers.  It&#039;s been several years since I got to write any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating! I mean both bornagain77&#8242;s comment and the PhysOrg article.</p>
<p>I wonder if what&#8217;s going on is not frontloading but overloading, as in Java.  Maybe DNA codes methods something like Vertebrate.makeRearAppendages(seaCreature, shark).  Then you could also have Vertebrate.makeRearAppendages(landCreature, cow) and so on and so forth.  </p>
<p>Hope that makes some sense to skilled Java programmers.  It&#8217;s been several years since I got to write any.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132733</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I said this before and I will say it again:

Just because today&#039;s shark has X genetic qualities does NOT mean that earlier generations also had those same qualities.

IOW the genome of today&#039;s shark evolved those genetic qualities over the generations.

What I think this does demonstrate is an ignorance of what genetic segments actually do.

We don&#039;t know what makes a shark a shark other than a shark is born when two other sharks successfully mate.

IMHO this is an example of common design. That is a designer re-using the same part for different applications.

We see that in every-day designs. A resistor in a feedback loop in one circuit is used as a voltage divider in another.

To MJB2001:

Design &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; a mechanism.

Front end loading is one specific mechanism, as is Dr Spetner&#039;s &quot;built-in responses to environmental cues&quot; (1997).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said this before and I will say it again:</p>
<p>Just because today&#8217;s shark has X genetic qualities does NOT mean that earlier generations also had those same qualities.</p>
<p>IOW the genome of today&#8217;s shark evolved those genetic qualities over the generations.</p>
<p>What I think this does demonstrate is an ignorance of what genetic segments actually do.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know what makes a shark a shark other than a shark is born when two other sharks successfully mate.</p>
<p>IMHO this is an example of common design. That is a designer re-using the same part for different applications.</p>
<p>We see that in every-day designs. A resistor in a feedback loop in one circuit is used as a voltage divider in another.</p>
<p>To MJB2001:</p>
<p>Design <b>is</b> a mechanism.</p>
<p>Front end loading is one specific mechanism, as is Dr Spetner&#8217;s &#8220;built-in responses to environmental cues&#8221; (1997).</p>
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		<title>By: kairosfocus</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132656</link>
		<dc:creator>kairosfocus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/#comment-132656</guid>
		<description>H&#039;mm:

PaV, 8: &lt;i&gt;If St. George Jackson Mivart were now alive, he would have a field-day.&lt;/i&gt;

Calling &lt;b&gt;Galapagos Finch&lt;/b&gt; et al: Let&#039;s channel him! (Or &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10407b.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;better yet&lt;/a&gt;, do an interview on the balcony of heaven!]

GEM of TKI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H&#8217;mm:</p>
<p>PaV, 8: <i>If St. George Jackson Mivart were now alive, he would have a field-day.</i></p>
<p>Calling <b>Galapagos Finch</b> et al: Let&#8217;s channel him! (Or <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10407b.htm" rel="nofollow">better yet</a>, do an interview on the balcony of heaven!]</p>
<p>GEM of TKI</p>
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		<title>By: bornagain77</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132618</link>
		<dc:creator>bornagain77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would also like to point out that Genetic Entropy does explain the many (over 90%) mysterious extinctions in the fossil record very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would also like to point out that Genetic Entropy does explain the many (over 90%) mysterious extinctions in the fossil record very well.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bornagain77</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132617</link>
		<dc:creator>bornagain77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/#comment-132617</guid>
		<description>Hi Collin,
 A easy to read book by J.C. Sanford called &quot;Genetic Entropy&quot; is what I recommend for the &quot;lay&quot; person such as myself. He is a leading expert in the field of Genetics. His credentials are truly impressive. He sites many studies to set the foundation for his arguments for the gradual degradation of the genome. The only place I have a problem with his book is I believe he tries to stretch the evidence a bit to far to fit the YEC scenario, but that one criticism aside, the evidence he lays out is absolutely devastating to the evolutionary scenario with hard empirical evidences that cannot be refuted. And will give you much devastating ammunition to debate Darwinists with. Here is the link to the site:

http://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Entropy-Mystery-Genome-Sanford/dp/1599190028</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Collin,<br />
 A easy to read book by J.C. Sanford called &#8220;Genetic Entropy&#8221; is what I recommend for the &#8220;lay&#8221; person such as myself. He is a leading expert in the field of Genetics. His credentials are truly impressive. He sites many studies to set the foundation for his arguments for the gradual degradation of the genome. The only place I have a problem with his book is I believe he tries to stretch the evidence a bit to far to fit the YEC scenario, but that one criticism aside, the evidence he lays out is absolutely devastating to the evolutionary scenario with hard empirical evidences that cannot be refuted. And will give you much devastating ammunition to debate Darwinists with. Here is the link to the site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Entropy-Mystery-Genome-Sanford/dp/1599190028" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Genetic-.....1599190028</a></p>
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		<title>By: bill Me</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132609</link>
		<dc:creator>bill Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/#comment-132609</guid>
		<description>Tell me how time exists without memory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell me how time exists without memory.</p>
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		<title>By: Collin</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/evolution/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/comment-page-1/#comment-132595</link>
		<dc:creator>Collin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/it-seems-frontloading-is-everywhere/#comment-132595</guid>
		<description>bornagain,

I would love to see a short book written to the lay person (me) fleshing out the points you made in your recent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bornagain,</p>
<p>I would love to see a short book written to the lay person (me) fleshing out the points you made in your recent post.</p>
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