Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinian Debating Device #19: How to Trick Yourself: The Darwinian Thought Process

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One of the primary things keeping traditional evolutionary theory afloat is not the mountain of evidence supposedly existing in its favor, but the way in which the evidence is interpreted in the context of the pre-existing Darwinian paradigm.

The key is the way evolutionary theorists tend to proceed from an observation to a series of conclusions. When you are steeped in evolutionary thought, when no alternative explanations are permitted as a matter of fiat, when the only possible interpretation open to you is a purely naturalistic and materialistic explanation, the conclusions seem to follow naturally.

To paraphrase Philip Johnson’s wry (and somewhat sarcastic) observation:

Evolution is really easy to prove. Since “evolution” means both tiny changes and the whole grand creative process, if we can prove a tiny change then we’ve proved the whole grand creative process. Therefore “evolution” occurred. So what’s your problem?

Unfortunately, this is not a parody. It is the basis for so much of evolutionary thought.

In a prior thread, I called out Dr. David Reznick for this kind of mistake. Seemingly unaware that they were making the very same errors, some commenters fell into the same trap. Again, if we are steeped in materialistic evolutionary theory, the path from meager evidence to grand sweeping conclusions seems to follow rather naturally. However, if we are able to escape from that intellectual trap for a moment, we eventually see that the series of conclusions do not in fact follow from the prior evidence and assumptions.

There is much that could be written about the Darwinian mindset and the approach typically taken by promoters of materialistic evolutionary theory, and this brief post cannot possibly constitute a comprehensive discussion. For now, I simply want to outline in graphical form the basic steps that are taken in the thought process. Some promoters of evolutionary theory may be more inclined to one aspect or another, but the overall outline is all too common:

DarwinianThought1

When we analyze the above thought process we note a few things. Again, the flow from one step to another seems rather reasonable if we approach things from a traditional Neo-Darwinian perspective. Indeed, we often hear supporters of evolutionary theory acknowledge things like the tautology of natural selection, while at the same time claiming that it still provides useful knowledge. Further, skeptics might even be inclined to grant that natural selection is, by definition, occurring in a particular situation, because the larger issues of interest to the skeptic lie elsewhere.

Farther to the right, we might even be tempted to admit that “evolution” is true in a general sense, without carefully distinguishing the kinds of changes experienced by an organism and the kinds of changes required to bring about the organism in the first place. Finally, if we are unfamiliar with the primary skeptical arguments or if we fail to realize how our own conflation of concepts clouds the issue, we might be tempted to conclude that anyone who doubts evolution is simply wrong.

To help us understand exactly what is going on then, I include below an additional series of boxes with arrows pointing to the relevant “therefore” and an explanation of what is really going on at that step in the process to enable the Darwinist to draw the conclusion.

DarwinianThought2

Once we see what is actually going on with each step of the thought process – with each of the “therefores” in the chain of thought – rather than finding convincing, overwhelming proof of the theory we instead find a series of unsupported assumptions, circular definitions, conflated concepts and unsound reasoning.

Comments
Eric Anderson: Thanks, but I’m looking for something more substantive, than just a general claim of “selection” having occurred. Natural selection is the differential reproductive potential due to differences in heritable traits. A simple example is how antibiotic resistance spreads in a population when in the presence of antibiotics. Another example is how coloration changes in guppies in the presence of predators.Zachriel
October 26, 2015
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Zachriel @210: Thanks, but I'm looking for something more substantive, than just a general claim of "selection" having occurred. After all, a very large part of the issue on the table is what "selection" means and whether it has any substance. It cannot just be adopted conveniently as a matter of definitional fiat. Otherwise, we fall right into the first fallacy box described in the OP. ----- Again, just to be clear, I am not taking the position that there is no distinction between different kinds of physical events. Maybe there is some value in drawing a distinction and perhaps a particular set of physical events could be given a convenience label of "natural selection." I'd sincerely like to know what that distinction is and how it can be objectively drawn. So far, I haven't seen a good analysis on that front from anyone who promotes natural "selection" as some kind of driving force in nature.Eric Anderson
October 26, 2015
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Zechriels: Ha! Now you got it! Those past bservations strongly support the standard phylogeny and common descent. I never said otherwise. For the sake of discussion, I stipulate to that, and always have. You seem to be of the opinion that a single instance of a Cambrian rabbit fossil would falsify the interpretation generally of the fossil record with regards to the standard phylogeny and common descent. Do I read you correctly? If so, why would it necessarily force such an abandonment of the standard phylogeny and common descent generally?mike1962
October 26, 2015
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Eric Anderson: I certainly agree that there are cases in which we can argue that an organism was spared from the grim reaper by pure luck. It seems to happen all the time. That's right. Eric Anderson: What is less clear is how many good examples there are to the contrary. There are many observations of selection in nature and in the lab.Zachriel
October 26, 2015
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Zachriel, The answer to your question is: Given evolutionism we wouldn't expect to find evidence of rabbits anywhere.Virgil Cain
October 26, 2015
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Never mind-Virgil Cain
October 26, 2015
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Half a population is wiped out by a lava flow. The other half is not. That is not natural selection, as there is no heritable difference between the populations that is related to the cause of their demise. The climate turns dry, and plants with small seeds die out. Birds with larger beaks have an advantage cracking larger seeds, so, over time, become more common in the population. This is natural selection, a heritable difference related to the cause of the change in the population.
Yes, we often hear that the abrupt natural disaster might be something different from natural selection. And it might in some specific cases. But it is not nearly so clear cut and we would be well-served to think through these kinds of hypotheticals in a bit more detail. If there is a slow lava flow, such as we regularly see on Hawaii, then those organisms that are able to escape would have done so because of some characteristic (presumably heritable) they possess. Is it the speed of the lava flow you are positing in your hypothetical that somehow makes it not an example of natural selection? Yet even with a quick lava flow, there are plenty of organisms that would survive -- many birds who can fly away and escape, for example -- with that survival being directly related to their characteristics that assist survival, and with those characteristics being heritable. Clearly an example of natural selection, by your definition. In either case -- a lava flow (whether slow or fast) or a drought -- we are essentially dealing with the various vagaries and hazards of nature, events that are essentially random and haphazard in their existence and application. I certainly agree that there are cases in which we can argue that an organism was spared from the grim reaper by pure luck. It seems to happen all the time. What is less clear is how many good examples there are to the contrary. The speed of an event is highly questionable as a differentiating factor. And if, as Neo-Darwinism claims, the very changes in DNA that allowed an organism to survive a particular event in the first place are themselves the result of sheer random luck, then we are ultimately dealing with luck all the way down.Eric Anderson
October 26, 2015
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mike1962: Likelihood is based on statistics of past events. Ha! Now you got it! Those past bservations strongly support the standard phylogeny and common descent. Do you think it plausible to find scientific evidence of a rabbit in the Cambrian? If not, why not?Zachriel
October 26, 2015
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Zechriels: We [sic] did address it. Some alien species made rabbits, then left them on Earth to be found. Most likely, they would have to be time travelers... Likelihood is based on statistics of past events. There is not enough data to determine any sort of likelihood. ...otherwise, they wouldn’t probably be aware of rabbits, which is a very specific organism found within a very specific phylogenetic position. It’s ad hoc. You're making an assumption that all rabbits must necessarily only exist at a "specific phylogenetic position" due to a presumption of blind evolution in all cases and that aliens would have to somehow know the future. But blind evolution in all cases is what is on trial here. A rabbit in the Cambrian does not require time-travelers as an explanation. Another explanation is that evolution is generally true, was guided by aliens along preconceived notions of what organisms should develop, with occasional interventions. If a Cambrian rabbit fossil was found, that scenario would explain the data without resorting to time travel and without falsifying evolution generally. So then, what would necessarily falsify Common Descent generally?mike1962
October 25, 2015
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mike1962: To help you understand, say humans today genetically modified an organism that otherwise could not have plausibly evolved. Say knowlege of this was eventually lost. 1,000,000 years from now scientists discover evidence of this intelligently modified organism. We did address it. Some alien species made rabbits, then left them on Earth to be found. Most likely, they would have to be time travelers, otherwise, they wouldn't probably be aware of rabbits, which is a very specific organism found within a very specific phylogenetic position. It's ad hoc. Do you think it plausible to find scientific evidence of a rabbit in the Cambrian? If not, why not?Zachriel
October 25, 2015
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Zechriels, You didn't address my hypothetical @197. Instead you bring up some irrelevancy about gravity and angels. Okie dokie.mike1962
October 25, 2015
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And Zachriel's position cannot explain the existence of gravity!Virgil Cain
October 25, 2015
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mike1962: I rest my argument. Maybe angels move the planets on crystal spheres, but they do it so it looks just like gravity! http://zachriel.com/blog/Angels.jpgZachriel
October 25, 2015
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Zechriels, I rest my argument.mike1962
October 25, 2015
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A Cambrian rabbit would have no plausible ancestors,
Except you don't know that, so you lose, again, as usual.Virgil Cain
October 25, 2015
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mike1962: You keep saying that, but you haven’t justified it. Common descent claims that all natural organisms are descendants of primitive ancestors. A Cambrian rabbit would have no plausible ancestors, so this claim would be falsified. Of course, it could be time-traveling rabbits; but that just goes to show how far you have to go to salvage any semblance of the original theory. Maybe it's common descent, but an alien teenager threw a rabbit into the Cambrian strata just for kicks! Maybe it's not fusion in the Sun, but a hamster on a treadmill!Zachriel
October 25, 2015
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Zechriels: Short of time-traveling rabbits, showing that rabbits existed in the Cambrian would overthrow Common Descent. You keep saying that, but you haven't justified it. Perhaps you could propose some way to salvage the theory. Intelligent intervention. See #146. To help you understand, say humans today genetically modified an organism that otherwise could not have plausibly evolved. Say knowlege of this was eventually lost. 1,000,000 years from now scientists discover evidence of this intelligently modified organism. Would that discovery necessarily falsify Common Descent via blind evolution for all/most organisms? Of course not. So then, I ask again: what would necessarily falsify Common Descent for all/most organisms?mike1962
October 25, 2015
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How can a concept be falsified by the existence of a cambrian rabbit when it can’t even explain the existence of rabbits?Virgil Cain
October 25, 2015
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Short of time-traveling rabbits, showing that rabbits existed in the Cambrian would overthrow Common Descent
No it wouldn't. What makes a rabbit a rabbit, Zachriel? Without knowing that you don't know if there were any precursors to a cambrian rabbit. Also absence of evidence is not evidence for absence. See, those are but two ways to save the conceptVirgil Cain
October 25, 2015
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mike1962: Having said that, you thereby acknowledge that the Cambrian rabbit would not necessarily falsify Common Descent for all/most organisms. Short of time-traveling rabbits, showing that rabbits existed in the Cambrian would overthrow Common Descent. Perhaps you could propose some way to salvage the theory.Zachriel
October 25, 2015
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Zechriels: That’s true. We do so by modifying the original theory to apply only to limited domains. It’s Newton’s Theory of Gravity, as long as we don’t move too fast or have too much mass... Common Descent has a historical component, and many of the specifics are subject to change. However, no organism can precede its ancestor, and all extant organisms have ancestors. Having said that, you thereby acknowledge that the Cambrian rabbit would not necessarily falsify Common Descent for all/most organisms. So then, what would falsify Common Descent for all/most organisms?mike1962
October 25, 2015
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Z, the rhetoric of selectively hyperskeptical dismissal of the pivotal question of origin of functionally specific complex organisation and associated information required for body plans (including the first) may for the moment secure a locked in default of the evolutionary materialist magisterium, but long term more and more are seeing the question begging ideological imposition. KFkairosfocus
October 24, 2015
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It’s a transitional between celphalochordates and vertebrates.
Or just a separate albeit intermediate form. We understand why you want to ignore that point.
Common Descent can be falsified by the fossil succession.
Common Descent needs a way to be tested. How can a concept be falsified by the existence of a cambrian rabbit when it can't even explain the existence of rabbits? We understand why you would want to ignore that also.
Good luck with your FSCO/I.
Good luck finding the all elusive "theory of evolution"Virgil Cain
October 24, 2015
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kairosfocus: I notice how you have dodged the Cambrian fossil life revolution as a whole and the issues it raises. Actually, you were trying to change the subject, which is whether Common Descent can be falsified by the fossil succession. Good luck with your FSCO/I.Zachriel
October 24, 2015
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Z, I notice how you have dodged the Cambrian fossil life revolution as a whole and the issues it raises. Let me put this in Meyer's summary from a decade ago:
The Cambrian explosion represents a remarkable jump in the specified complexity or "complex specified information" (CSI) of the biological world. For over three billions years, the biological realm included little more than bacteria and algae (Brocks et al. 1999). Then, beginning about 570-565 million years ago (mya), the first complex multicellular organisms appeared in the rock strata, including sponges, cnidarians, and the peculiar Ediacaran biota (Grotzinger et al. 1995). Forty million years later, the Cambrian explosion occurred (Bowring et al. 1993) . . . One way to estimate the amount of new CSI that appeared with the Cambrian animals is to count the number of new cell types that emerged with them (Valentine 1995:91-93) . . . the more complex animals that appeared in the Cambrian (e.g., arthropods) would have required fifty or more cell types . . . New cell types require many new and specialized proteins. New proteins, in turn, require new genetic information. Thus an increase in the number of cell types implies (at a minimum) a considerable increase in the amount of specified genetic information. Molecular biologists have recently estimated that a minimally complex single-celled organism would require between 318 and 562 kilobase pairs of DNA to produce the proteins necessary to maintain life (Koonin 2000). More complex single cells might require upward of a million base pairs. Yet to build the proteins necessary to sustain a complex arthropod such as a trilobite would require orders of magnitude more coding instructions. The genome size of a modern arthropod, the fruitfly Drosophila melanogaster, is approximately 180 million base pairs (Gerhart & Kirschner 1997:121, Adams et al. 2000). Transitions from a single cell to colonies of cells to complex animals represent significant (and, in principle, measurable) increases in CSI . . . . In order to explain the origin of the Cambrian animals, one must account not only for new proteins and cell types, but also for the origin of new body plans . . . Mutations in genes that are expressed late in the development of an organism will not affect the body plan. Mutations expressed early in development, however, could conceivably produce significant morphological change (Arthur 1997:21) . . . [but] processes of development are tightly integrated spatially and temporally such that changes early in development will require a host of other coordinated changes in separate but functionally interrelated developmental processes downstream. For this reason, mutations will be much more likely to be deadly if they disrupt a functionally deeply-embedded structure such as a spinal column than if they affect more isolated anatomical features such as fingers (Kauffman 1995:200) . . . McDonald notes that genes that are observed to vary within natural populations do not lead to major adaptive changes, while genes that could cause major changes--the very stuff of macroevolution--apparently do not vary. In other words, mutations of the kind that macroevolution doesn't need (namely, viable genetic mutations in DNA expressed late in development) do occur, but those that it does need (namely, beneficial body plan mutations expressed early in development) apparently don't occur.
. . . now amplified of course through his best-selling Darwin's Doubt. That issue of the origin of FSCO/I to account for body plans is what you need to answer, and the lack of a cogent answer after a decade is all too patent. Indeed, after 150 years. KFkairosfocus
October 24, 2015
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Second, Metaspriggina lacks vertebrae, not to mention fins. It’s a transitional between celphalochordates and vertebrates.
Or just a separate, albeit intermediate, form.Virgil Cain
October 23, 2015
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kairosfocus: The far more reachable case, known since Darwin in fact, is the Cambrian explosion, which someone above highlighted as involving fish. Z: Metaspriggina lacks vertebrae, not to mention fins. It’s a transitional between celphalochordates and vertebrates. https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/how-to-trick-yourself-the-darwinian-thought-process/#comment-583849Zachriel
October 23, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
Right, you could be shot because your search for the restaurant brought you too close to the Mexican border. ????
LOL!! Good one!Carpathian
October 23, 2015
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KF, Thanks, I hadn't heard of that term before. I take it this is the same concept:
Eschatological verification describes a case where a statement can be verifiable if true but not falsifiable if false. The term is most commonly used in relation to God and the afterlife.
daveS
October 23, 2015
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A “Darwinian search” contains both attributes, mutations and selection.
A “Darwinian search” is an oxymoron as it is merely accidental mutations and elimination of the less fit.
If I was a tourist from New York searching for a specific restaurant in San Diego, I would not go back to New York on each failure to find it.
Right, you could be shot because your search for the restaurant brought you too close to the Mexican border. :razz:Virgil Cain
October 23, 2015
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