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Is epigenetics Lamarckian? And is it ID?

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David Penny of Massey University, New Zealand, says while discussing a paper, no.

Abstract: It is not really helpful to consider modern environmental epigenetics as neo-Lamarckian; and there is no evidence that Lamarck considered the idea original to himself. We must all keep learning about inheritance, but attributing modern ideas to early researchers is not helpful, and can be misleading. Open access

He also notes,

Thus, I should welcome this paper (Skinner 2015) – but still think that the paper is problematic -perhaps I see it as not addressing quite the right issues, or not the right questions? There has been a recent controversy in Nature over whether evolutionary biology needs to be rethought (Laland et al. 2014 argue for rethinking, versus Wray et al. 2014 arguing for continued updating and expanding of our knowledge). In this controversy we are very much in favor of always continuing to update our knowledge – humans have no special facility to ‘believe’ only completely correct hypotheses. Knowledge should never be static, so I basically agree with Wray [Colour emphasis added.]

Doesn’t sound very Darwinian, all this. Too many questions, not enough dogma enforcement.

Physicist Rob Sheldon writes to comment,

David Penny appears to be offering a paper review, rather than a paper. He lists 5 questions he has for “epigenetics”, and this was his 3rd question below. It looks like a roundabout way to talk about Intelligent Design without using the ID word.

Thirdly, there is no discussion of purpose (or deliberate action) in evolution, and this aspect does need to be included. Does the author think that there is purpose in the epigenetic events, it appears not to be stated? Another way of putting this question (perhaps an extreme way) is whether the macromolecules know that they are helping the survival of the organism. We have assumed that the molecules that carry out (environmental) epigenetics have no idea whether or not they are helping or hindering in a particular case (Penny 2014). It may well be that certain epigenetic changes are selected for under some environments, but that will have been selected for previously. Anyway, it should be made clear in the original whether environmental epigenetics is usually/necessarily advantageous to the organism. This aspect does need to be discussed, and it is basic to modern uniformitarianism/actualism.”

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Comments
Wd - Just speaking in a casual sense. But passing on traits from environmental interaction, how is that not Lamarckian, in the sense of the notion that was laughed about endlessly? But this just brings out that we don't even know, what we don't know. Didn't hear any predictions from evolutionists of another, 'higher level' code, manipulating the one we knew about, in real time essentially, did we? So this, yet again, is something to be fit-in. It looks like DNA is more of the ingredient list - everyone jumped the gun on that 'unlocked the secret of life' thing. I say this histone/methylation code acts at a scale that is invisible and or can not even in principle be the result of evolutionary-time-framed 'forces'. Incidentally changed over time certainly, but not created by. Meta information, twice removed from physical necessity, I say that is beyond reach, in principle, also. Meta information has to be considered an even higher level artifact of an intelligent origin. And what if we find another code level? Will the towel be thrown in? I am certain there is a system of communication and coordination from the smallest scale and up yet to be realized. The microscopic functionings we see cannot be the result of gradients, concentrations, brownian motion etc. Nor the large scale coherent organization and interaction exist without top level guidance.butifnot
June 10, 2015
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[David Penny] lists 5 questions he has for “epigenetics”, and this was his 3rd question below. It looks like a roundabout way to talk about Intelligent Design without using the ID word.
Not to me - it looks like it's part of saying that epigenetics aren't Lamackian, which is the point of the paper.Bob O'H
June 10, 2015
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Heres a new one for me. There is another type of selection called purifying selection. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150608213032.htmMrCollins
June 9, 2015
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Doesn’t sound very Darwinian, all this. Too many questions, not enough dogma enforcement.
And yet Penny is certainly a "Darwinist" in the way the word is used here. Almost as version of "Darwinism" you attack here is not very much like evolutionary biology as it is practiced. Butifnot
Instant, environmentally stimulated and heritable – 100% Lamarckian.
And which of those peroperties were part of Lamarck's theory? Which ones were unique to his and not other theories of inheritance? For that matter, does this sound more like Lamark's theory of inheritance than Darwin's?wd400
June 9, 2015
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Instant, environmentally stimulated and heritable - 100% Lamarckian.butifnot
June 9, 2015
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Anyway, it should be made clear in the original whether environmental epigenetics is usually/necessarily advantageous to the organism. Why? We're not panselectionists here. Epigenetic drift anyone?Mung
June 9, 2015
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I would not say that epigenetics is ID, I would say though that it is teleological.Mung
June 9, 2015
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