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	<title>Comments on: Blind Watchmaker?</title>
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		<title>By: CannuckianYankee</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347377</link>
		<dc:creator>CannuckianYankee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=11520#comment-347377</guid>
		<description>&quot;there is no watchmaker in nature beyond the blind forces of physics, albeit deployed in a very special way.&quot;

Seversky,

Thanks for the quote.  This appears somewhat contradictory.  It seems that even Dawkins cannot escape the language of purpose &quot;deployed in a very special way.&quot;

Here&#039;s the conundrum.  The purpose of evolution is to be purposeless.  The plan of evolution is to not have a plan, and is &quot;deployed&quot; by natural causes, which mount upon previous natural causes ad infinitum, which render them causeless.  I know that Darwinists insist that ToE does not deal with origin of life issues, but they need to do some hard thinking in that area in order to avoid not making any sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;there is no watchmaker in nature beyond the blind forces of physics, albeit deployed in a very special way.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seversky,</p>
<p>Thanks for the quote.  This appears somewhat contradictory.  It seems that even Dawkins cannot escape the language of purpose &#8220;deployed in a very special way.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the conundrum.  The purpose of evolution is to be purposeless.  The plan of evolution is to not have a plan, and is &#8220;deployed&#8221; by natural causes, which mount upon previous natural causes ad infinitum, which render them causeless.  I know that Darwinists insist that ToE does not deal with origin of life issues, but they need to do some hard thinking in that area in order to avoid not making any sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Clive Hayden</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347347</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive Hayden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=11520#comment-347347</guid>
		<description>Seversky, 

Sure thing. The laws of physics created that Urwerk watch too ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seversky, </p>
<p>Sure thing. The laws of physics created that Urwerk watch too <img src='http://www.uncommondescent.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347321</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=11520#comment-347321</guid>
		<description>But as for blind watchmakers- just watch the movie &quot;The Curious Case of Benjamin Button&quot;- it has a blind clock-maker. ;)

It&#039;s just that his clock went backwards to try to turn back time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But as for blind watchmakers- just watch the movie &#8220;The Curious Case of Benjamin Button&#8221;- it has a blind clock-maker. <img src='http://www.uncommondescent.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just that his clock went backwards to try to turn back time&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347320</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dr Lee Spetner wrote &quot;Not By Chance&quot; in response to &quot;The Blind Watchmaker&quot;.

Blythe wrote about natural selection before Darwin.

And there isn;t any data which demonstrtates an accumulation oif genetic accidents* can do what Dawkins claims.


*accumulation of genetic accidents- in Dawkins&#039; world all mutations are accidents and they accumulate via various processes- Dawkins calls it &quot;cumulative selection&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Lee Spetner wrote &#8220;Not By Chance&#8221; in response to &#8220;The Blind Watchmaker&#8221;.</p>
<p>Blythe wrote about natural selection before Darwin.</p>
<p>And there isn;t any data which demonstrtates an accumulation oif genetic accidents* can do what Dawkins claims.</p>
<p>*accumulation of genetic accidents- in Dawkins&#8217; world all mutations are accidents and they accumulate via various processes- Dawkins calls it &#8220;cumulative selection&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Seversky</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347298</link>
		<dc:creator>Seversky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=11520#comment-347298</guid>
		<description>In 1802, the Rev. William Paley published his &lt;i&gt;Natural Theology&lt;/i&gt;.  As we all know, in this work he argued in essence that, just as the structure of a watch would lead us to conclude that there must have been a watchmaker, so should analogous properties in living things point towards the existence of a Creator.

Dawkins&#039; book was a response to Paley&#039;s thesis.  As he wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Despite all appearances to the contrary, there is no watchmaker in nature beyond the blind forces of physics, albeit deployed in a very special way. Natural selection, the blind, unconscious, automatic process which Darwin discovered, and which we now know is the explanation for the existence and apparently purposeful form of all life, has no purpose in mind. It has no mind and no mind’s eye. It does not plan for the future. It has no vision, no foresight, no sight at all. If it can be said to play the role of watchmaker in nature, it is the blind watchmaker.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1802, the Rev. William Paley published his <i>Natural Theology</i>.  As we all know, in this work he argued in essence that, just as the structure of a watch would lead us to conclude that there must have been a watchmaker, so should analogous properties in living things point towards the existence of a Creator.</p>
<p>Dawkins&#8217; book was a response to Paley&#8217;s thesis.  As he wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Despite all appearances to the contrary, there is no watchmaker in nature beyond the blind forces of physics, albeit deployed in a very special way. Natural selection, the blind, unconscious, automatic process which Darwin discovered, and which we now know is the explanation for the existence and apparently purposeful form of all life, has no purpose in mind. It has no mind and no mind’s eye. It does not plan for the future. It has no vision, no foresight, no sight at all. If it can be said to play the role of watchmaker in nature, it is the blind watchmaker.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Clive Hayden</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347290</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive Hayden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=11520#comment-347290</guid>
		<description>lars, 


&lt;blockquote&gt;
As such, it doesn’t seem clear to me that Dawkins intended the BW as an analogy to illuminate how intricate systems came about… but rather to provoke the reader by the intuitive impossibility of a literal blind watchmaker....&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So he could&#039;ve just as easily called his book &lt;em&gt;The Impossibility&lt;/em&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lars, </p>
<blockquote><p>
As such, it doesn’t seem clear to me that Dawkins intended the BW as an analogy to illuminate how intricate systems came about… but rather to provoke the reader by the intuitive impossibility of a literal blind watchmaker&#8230;.</p></blockquote>
<p>So he could&#8217;ve just as easily called his book <em>The Impossibility</em>?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lars</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347280</link>
		<dc:creator>lars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=11520#comment-347280</guid>
		<description>Wasn&#039;t Dawkins&#039; title intended to be an oxymoronic reference to Paley&#039;s watchmaker analogy? Oxymoronic in the sense that it intentionally invokes an apparent contradiction, for rhetorical effect.

As such, it doesn&#039;t seem clear to me that Dawkins intended the BW as an analogy to &lt;b&gt;illuminate&lt;/b&gt; how intricate systems came about... but rather to provoke the reader by the intuitive impossibility of a literal blind watchmaker; and then to illuminate the theorized mechanism by other analogies and arguments. (The latter fail, but I don&#039;t see that as a failure of the book title.)

Disclaimer: I can&#039;t say I&#039;ve read the book first-hand. I just know it through the numerous quotes and discussions about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t Dawkins&#8217; title intended to be an oxymoronic reference to Paley&#8217;s watchmaker analogy? Oxymoronic in the sense that it intentionally invokes an apparent contradiction, for rhetorical effect.</p>
<p>As such, it doesn&#8217;t seem clear to me that Dawkins intended the BW as an analogy to <b>illuminate</b> how intricate systems came about&#8230; but rather to provoke the reader by the intuitive impossibility of a literal blind watchmaker; and then to illuminate the theorized mechanism by other analogies and arguments. (The latter fail, but I don&#8217;t see that as a failure of the book title.)</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;ve read the book first-hand. I just know it through the numerous quotes and discussions about it.</p>
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		<title>By: P. Mahoney</title>
		<link>http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blind-watchmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-347272</link>
		<dc:creator>P. Mahoney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.uncommondescent.com/?p=11520#comment-347272</guid>
		<description>In a simpler, and perhaps happier time, &quot;disabled&quot; children (we must use the politically correct term, mustn&#039;t we?) found useful, skilled  and fulfilling work in religious homes making items for which there used to be a demand. &#039;Blind watchmakers&#039; indeed!

It probably wouldn&#039;t be sufficiently &quot;empowering&quot; for modern sensibilities, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a simpler, and perhaps happier time, &#8220;disabled&#8221; children (we must use the politically correct term, mustn&#8217;t we?) found useful, skilled  and fulfilling work in religious homes making items for which there used to be a demand. &#8216;Blind watchmakers&#8217; indeed!</p>
<p>It probably wouldn&#8217;t be sufficiently &#8220;empowering&#8221; for modern sensibilities, though.</p>
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