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He said it: “Pure chance, absolutely free but blind, at the very root of the stupendous edifice of evolution”

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Jacques Monod
Jacques Monod (1910-1976)

“We call these events [mutations] accidental; we say they are random occurrences. And since they constitute the only possible source of modification in the genetic text, itself the sole repository of the organism’s hereditary structures, it necessarily follows that chance alone is at the source of every innovation, of all creation in the biosphere. Pure chance, absolutely free but blind, at the very root of the stupendous edifice of evolution: this central concept of modern biology is no longer one among other possible or even conceivable hypotheses. It is today the sole conceivable hypothesis, the only one that squares with observed and tested fact. And nothing warrants the supposition – or the hope – that on this score our position is likely ever to be revised.” – Nobelist (1965) Jacques Monod, Chance and Necessity. An Essay on the Natural Philosophy of Modern Biology (New York: Knopf, 1971)

(Note: Monod is quoted in Mutation breeding, evolution, and the law of recurrent variation, Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, Recent Res. Devel. Genet. Breeding, 2(2005): 45-70 ISBN: 81-308-0007-1 ) who works at the Max Planck Institute and apparently doubts Darwin: “Providing an affirmative answer of the applicability of the law of recurrent variation not only to cultivated plant and animal lines but also to species in the wild, the statements and assertions of the synthetic theory as quoted below will have to be revised.”

Comments
So Monod, as we have seen, did not coin the term teleonomy. This leaves your claim that teleonomy was not a replacement term for teleology. But it just is:
A third form of philosophy of biology occurs when philosophers appeal to biology to support positions on traditional philosophical topics, such as ethics or epistemology. The extensive literature on biological teleology is a case in point. After a brief flurry of interest in the wake of the ‘modern synthesis’, during which the term ‘teleonomy’ was introduced to denote the specifically evolutionary interpretation of teleological language (Pittendrigh 1958), the ideas of function and goal directedness came to be regarded as relatively unproblematic by evolutionary biologists.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/biology-philosophy/Mung
July 11, 2011
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Elizabeth Liddle:
Telelogical: an explanation of a functional object in terms of an agent with a purpose for that object that will benefit something external to that object.
Where did you get this definition? Monod? In what sense is a rock a functional object? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/teleological http://www.thefreedictionary.com/teleological http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/teleology http://public.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/TELE.HTM You really need to find a better source.Mung
July 11, 2011
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Telelogical: an explanation of a functional object in terms of an agent with a purpose for that object that will benefit something external to that object. Teleonomic: an explanation of a functional object in terms of the role that object serves in benefiting the whole of which it forms a part. That is how I read the difference between the two terms. YMMVElizabeth Liddle
July 11, 2011
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Elizabeth Liddle:
And it’s important to make the distinction, because it enables us to talk about function without invoking an external agent who assigned that function and who is the beneficiary of that function, which his what, hitherto, function usually meant.
It's a FALSE distinction. And nothing prevents any scientist from talking about function without invoking an external agent. You don't have to come up with some special term that's nothing more than code for "we're talking about something we're not supposed to be talking about." And you're so far of base about the meaning of function that it's not even funny. Care to defend it with an argument?
It’s a different kind of function to that we refer to as teleology – when something serves a function assigned to it by something else, for the benefit of that something else.
IOW, your "functions that serve the interests of the organisms of which they form a part" are teleological. Teleonomy is just a replacement term.Mung
July 10, 2011
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All you need to do, Elizabeth, is tell us what you mean by teleology, and perhaps give us examples that include living things. When you provide an example of a human using a rock to break open a coconut as representative of what Monod means by teleology, we can only wonder.
And we can describe the whole scenario as being “teleological” – the stones have a function, assigned to them by a person with an intention for them. So “function” would seem to be a function (heh) of the use to which a separate entity purposefully puts it.
We could describe that scenario as "teleological," but why would we? Let's make up a name for that scenario. Telebsonomy. Get the picture? And in fact this is a debate that we should be able to resolve without recourse to Monod's book, though if I have to I will haul it's dusty carcass out of storage. At least I have a good idea where it is. (Filed under M, no doubt.) Let's look again at wikipedia. Let us know if it differs from Monod if you think it makes a difference:
Teleonomy is the quality of apparent purposefulness and of goal-directedness of structures and functions in living organisms that derive from their evolutionary history, adaptation for reproductive success, or generally, due to the operation of a program.
Apparent purposefulness. Goal-directedness. The operation of a program. Why would none of those phrases be applicable if we were talking about teleology rather than teleonomy?
But I think he makes an interesting point, and that point is about teleonomy – functions that serve the interests of the organisms of which they form a part.
Such functions, according to you, are not teleological? Why not? Because there is no outside agent present to make them take on that role? Wiki:
The term was coined to stand in contrast with teleology, which applies to ends that are planned by an agent which can internally model/imagine various alternative futures, which enables intention, purpose and foresight.
Right. A replacement term. Got to lose the baggage that comes with teleology.
A teleonomic process, such as evolution, produces complex products without the benefit of such a guiding foresight.
Gee. Now I'm confused. Does teleonomy apply to functions or to the process of evolution? What is a teleonomic process? Wiki:
A teleology is any philosophical account which holds that final causes exist in nature, meaning that design and purpose analogous to that found in human actions are inherent also in the rest of nature.
Analogous to. Not synonymous with. No human agent required. Please, Elizabeth, read the wiki page on Teleology and tell me how your "functions that serve the interests of the organisms of which they form a part" are not teleological. They serve an end, don't they?
A thing, process or action is teleological when it is for the sake of an end
And your language is muddled. The parts perform a function, that function is for the sake of an end (survival and reproduction). Life itself is teleological, and you can't escape that fact by calling it teleonomy. Nor can Monod.Mung
July 10, 2011
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Honestly, Mung, I give up. I don't know what you will find out if you read the book, seeing as we seem capable of reading the same books and drawing wildly different conclusions as to the author's intentions. I think, like Gil,that the book is dated, and I don't especially like the way he presents his argument. But I think he makes an interesting point, and that point is about teleonomy - functions that serve the interests of the organisms of which they form a part. It's a different kind of function to that we refer to as teleology - when something serves a function assigned to it by something else, for the benefit of that something else. And it's important to make the distinction, because it enables us to talk about function without invoking an external agent who assigned that function and who is the beneficiary of that function, which his what, hitherto, function usually meant. More to the point of the OP, however, is the quotation I gave subsequently, which clarifies what Monod meant by the role of Chance in evolution - that its role is orthogonal to that of the "teleonomic project" and that: "Drawn from the realm of pure chance, the accident enters into that of necessity, of the most implacable certainties. For natural selection operates at the macroscopic level, the level of organisms." But if you want to read it differently, feel free. I've said my piece.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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And they are going to find out, by reading Monod's book, that teleonomy is not a replacement for teleology? How will that happen? Or is it your claim that in all other cases teleonomy is a replacement for teleology, but Monod's use stands alone as being somehow different? Not believable.
Hence the need for a different word...
So teleonomy is a replacement term.
Hence the need for a different word to describe a functional entity that has not been assigned a function by a separate entity with a purpose that benefits that separate entity, but rather is a component of a larger entity and serves to maximise the persistence, over time, of that entity.
That's your definition of teleology? e.g., A person who throws a rock in order to smash a window. The rock has thus been given a function or purpose it would not otherwise have. Call it "window smashing." That's your idea of teleology? That's Monod's idea of teleology? Get out.Mung
July 10, 2011
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The Hull quote is from 1982, well after Monod’s book was published. So how do you propose to convince anyone here that what Hull said didn’t apply to Monod’s use of the term?
By proposing exactly what I already proposed: that they read Monod's book (those who haven't already).Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Elizabeth Liddle:
...we are not discussing the wiki entry on the term [teleonomy], we are discussing Monod’s use of it.
And Monod's use of teleonomy is different from that of everyone else? The Hull quote is from 1982, well after Monod's book was published. So how do you propose to convince anyone here that what Hull said didn't apply to Monod's use of the term?
It does not contradict my point.
What would contradict your point? Anything? Or are you shielding it from all possible disconfirmation.
“But it must be borne in mind that, while necessary to the definition of living things, this condition is not sufficient, since it does not propose any objective criteria for distinguishing between living beings themselves and the artifacts produced by their activity.”
What is necessary to the definition of living things? Teleonomy? How is that different from teleology? What condition is not sufficient? What does does not propose any objective criteria for distinguishing between living beings themselves and the artifacts produced by their activity? Teleonomy? How is that different from teleology? Teleonomy just is teleology under a different name. What do you think the difference is between the two concepts?Mung
July 10, 2011
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And to continue: "Even today a good many distinguished minds seem unable to accept or even to understand that from a source of noise natural selection could quite unadided have drawn all the music of the biosphere. INdeed natural selection operates upon the produces of chance and knows no other nourishment; but it operates in a domain of very demandingconditions, from which chance is banned. It is not to chance but to these conditions that evolution owes its generally progressive course, its successive conquests, and the steady development which it seems to suggest." My bold.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Another quotation from Monod, relevant to the OP: "The initial elementary events which open the way to evolution in the intensely conservative systems called living beings are microscopic, fortuitous, and totally unrelated to whatever may be their effects upon teleonomic functioning. But once incorporated in the DNA structure, the accident - essentially unpredictable because alway singular - will be mechanically and faithfully replicated and translated: that is to say, both multiplied and transposed into millions or thousands of millions of copies. Drawn from the realm of pure chance, the accident enters into that of necessity, of the most implacable certainties. For natural selection operates at the macroscopic level, the level of organisms."Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Ah, found my copy: Yes, the quote is from Monod, and the immediately following paragraph says: "But it must be borne i mind that, while necessary to the definition of living things, this condition is not sufficient, since it does not propose any objective criteria for distinguishing between living belins themselves and the artifacts produced by their activity." My bold.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Mung: we are not discussing the wiki entry on the term, we are discussing Monod's use of it. And yes, your second quote looks like it is from Monod. It does not contradict my point.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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And the following appears to be a quote directly from Monod:
Rather than reject this [goal-directedness] idea (as certain biologists have tried to do) it is indispensable to recognize that it is essential to the very definition of living beings. We shall maintain that the latter are distinct from all other structures or systems present in the universe through this characteristic property, which we shall call teleonomy.
Mung
July 10, 2011
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You are apparently correct that the term was not coined by Monod.
Thank you.
But it [teleonomy] was not a “replacement” term for “teleology”. It has a different meaning.
It has a different meaning, therefore it's not a replacement term? If you want to be taken seriously you need to do better than that. And I take it you didn't really read the wiki entry on teleonomy. Here's a relevant quote:
Haldane [in the 1930s] can be found remarking, ‘Teleology is like a mistress to a biologist: he cannot live without her but he’s unwilling to be seen with her in public.’ Today the mistress has become a lawfully wedded wife. Biologists no longer feel obligated to apologize for their use of teleological language; they flaunt it. The only concession which they make to its disreputable past is to rename it ‘teleonomy’.
Mung
July 10, 2011
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F/N: Kindly cf here: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/is-chance-real-can-it-cause-anything-can-we-investigate-it-scientifically/kairosfocus
July 10, 2011
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I'd point out that even if a cell were to be designed by an Intelligent Designer, the word would still have a use, because there is a difference between something that performs a function for the benefit (i.e. persistence over time) of the whole of which it forms a part, and something that performs a function for something or somebody else entirely. The first is an example of teleonomy, the second is an example of teleology.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Mung: You are apparently correct that the term was not coined by Monod. But it was not a "replacement" term for "teleology". It has a different meaning. Here is a classic example: Two stones on a beach do not have a "function". They just happen to be there. However, if a person comes along and uses the two stones to crack open a coconut, by placing the coconut on one and hitting it with another, that person has assigned a function to those stones. She has in fact designed coconut-cracking device, the purpose of the device being to enable her to eat the coconut. And we can describe the whole scenario as being "teleological" - the stones have a function, assigned to them by a person with an intention for them. So "function" would seem to be a function (heh) of the use to which a separate entity purposefully puts it. And she could also shape the stones, or at least choose them carefully, and leave them there to use again later. And later still archaeologist might come along and say "aha - these pairs of stones are artefactst - they were selected for cracking coconuts by the people who used to live here". Contrast this with a ribosome - who or what uses the ribosome? Well the thing that uses the ribosome is the cell - but in this case the ribosome is part of the cell It was not invented by the cell in order to crack coconuts, it part of what the cell is, and the role it plays in the life of the cell is to maintain the cell. In other words, we have, in a ribosome, an entity that has a function, and yet the function and the entity cannot be separated from the organism of which it is a part. Hence the need for a different word to describe a functional entity that has not been assigned a function by a separate entity with a purpose that benefits that separate entity, but rather is a component of a larger entity and serves to maximise the persistence, over time, of that entity. The word chosen (I'm not sure by who) was teleonomy, and Monod uses it in this sense. To say that it was a "replacement" for the word "teleology" is to miss the entire point of having the word in the first point, as well as the entire point of Monod's book.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Also of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TechneMung
July 10, 2011
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Elizabeth Liddle:
But imputing a different meaning to a word that Monod coined to the one he assigned to it is “making stuff up”.
The term 'teleonomy' was not coined by Monod.
It wasn’t a “replacement term” for teleology.
The word 'teleonomy' is in fact a replacement term for teleology.
Clearly, organisms incorporate parts that serve to perpetuate the organism.
In other words, the "parts" clearly serve an "end". They have a telos. Is it any wonder that we think you're talking about teleology? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telos_%28philosophy%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleonomy
Guys, stop making stuff up.
YOU stop making stuff up.Mung
July 10, 2011
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I'm not "assuming my opinion is fact". But imputing a different meaning to a word that Monod coined to the one he assigned to it is "making stuff up". Feel free to disagree with Monod, but at least get his argument right. It wasn't a "replacement term" for teleology. It was an attempt to coin a term (which indeed, did not catch on) to denote an intrinsic function - one that served to perpetuate the entity of which it was a part. And while it may not have caught on as a term, the issue is only dead inasmuch as it is no longer even controversial. Clearly, organisms incorporate parts that serve to perpetuate the organism.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Guys, stop making stuff up. Liddle, stop assuming your opinion is fact. People disagree with you, and teleonomy as 'looks like teleology but isn't' is a fair crack at teleonomy. And also pretty much a dead issue nowadays. It failed as a replacement term. Deal with it.nullasalus
July 10, 2011
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Guy=guys Sorry I keep thinking "submit" is "preview"! I meant Mung and Ilion.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Guy, stop making stuff up. Monod did not say there was no way to detect design. And teleonomy does not mean "looks teleological but isn't. And Monod's point, in the quote in the OP, is that the novelty, in evolution arises by Chance (or hazard, which does not mean quite what English speakers often mean by Chance - happenstance might be a better translation). Which is true. But novelty alone is not enough to explain function - you also have to have some kind of selection. In the case of a human designer, the selection is easy to account for, as is the function - a human designer designs something to fulfil a human-specified function. Monod's concept of teleonomy is that a function can also be intrinsic to the maintenance of an entity - something that serves to cause that entity to persist, in which case the selection is what Darwin called "natural" - what tends to persist is what tends to promote persistence. Again, you may disagree, but it's important to understand the argument.Elizabeth Liddle
July 10, 2011
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Gil:
Monod’s book is a quaint artifact of an era gone by.
It is, in many ways. That's one of the reasons it's interesting.Elizabeth Liddle
July 9, 2011
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Did you read Pierre-Paul Grasse in the original French?Mung
July 9, 2011
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I wish people would actually read Monod’s book. I've read it in the original French. (I have both a BA and MA in French language and literature, and my wife is a high-school French teacher.) Monod's book is a quaint artifact of an era gone by.GilDodgen
July 9, 2011
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All the while claiming out of the other side of their mouth that there's no way to detect design (and thus the designoid) and there is no way to detect teleology (and thus teleonomy). Oh sure, it has the appearance of design but it can't be designed, so we call it designoid. Oh? Do tell. How do you tell whether a thing has "the appearance of design"? Scientifically.Mung
July 9, 2011
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from The Evolutionist's Dictionary, for Fun And Games -- 'designoid' -- "it looks designed, but it isn't!" 'teleonomy' -- "it looks teleological, but it isn't!"Ilion
July 9, 2011
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Note that Monod says: ‘by chance.’ Monod does what many others do—he elevates chance to a creative principle. Chance is offered as the means by which life came to be on earth. In fact, dictionaries show that “chance” is “the assumed impersonal purposeless determiner of unaccountable happenings.” Thus, if one speaks about life coming about by chance, he is saying that it came about by a causal power that is not known. Could it be that some are virtually spelling “Chance” with a capital letter—in effect saying, Creator? Oh, and the scientist quoted, Lonnig, happens to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. He was quoted in the September 2006 issue of Awake! magazine as stating: "Over the past 28 years, I have done scientific work dealing with genetic mutation in plants. For 21 of those years, I have been employed by the Max Planck Institute for Plant Breeding Research, in Cologne, Germany. For almost three decades, I have also served as an elder in a Christian congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. My empirical research in genetics and my studies of biological subjects such as physiology and morphology bring me face-to-face with the enormous and often unfathomable complexities of life. My study of these topics has reinforced my conviction that life, even the most basic forms of life, must have an intelligent origin. The scientific community is well aware of the complexity found in life. But these fascinating facts are generally presented in a strong evolutionary context. In my mind, however, the arguments against the Bible account of creation fall apart when subjected to scientific scrutiny. I have examined such arguments over decades. After much careful study of living things and consideration of the way the laws governing the universe seem perfectly adjusted so that life on earth can exist, I am compelled to believe in a Creator."Barb
July 9, 2011
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