Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Has the Catholic Church changed its mind on evolution?

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Of course not, and even the spiky blue airhead on cable TV can’t make it so.

See, for example, The Pope’s Views on Evolution Haven’t Really Evolved in The Atlantic.

and The Tablet Pope Francis Didn’t Revolutionize the Catholic Church’s Stance on Evolution , And the media should stop saying he did.

Or Time’s characterization of “Big change” claims as “papal bull.”

In fairness, the legacy media haven’t been claiming big changes to nearly the extent one might have expected. I am not sure why they haven’t. One rather expected them to create a deafening roar around the merest hint.

I do know, unfortunately, one reason that probably doesn’t account for the lack of full roar. It probably isn’t because they understand how the Catholic Church works.

Or ever plan to.

First, Francis *does not have the power* to change fundamental Catholic doctrine, received from the Apostles, handed down from bishop to bishop for two millennia. The Church is decidedly not the place to go if you expect to shamble into a pew Sunday morning and hear that the synod of elders or bishops have voted that partial birth abortion is okay or that black people have a different Adam and Eve from white people (Bruno’s view), or that half the planet should be given over to wild animals (E. O. Wilson’s view), as a religious obligation.

There may be a religious organization down the road somewhere (est. 1983) that fronts each, or some, or all of these views. It’s probably not your local Holy Family Parish*, however, and certainly not the Catechism. Even the Pope does not have the power such synods wield.

He is merely the current occupant of the Chair of St. Peter, which is nothing by comparison.

Catholics are expected to believe only a few things around evolution, and they are no help to Darwin’s followers. A useful source is Catholic biologist Ann Gauger, in Evolution News & Views:

According to Pope Francis, evolution per se still requires a Creator and cannot be the result of purely physical causes, for God is “the Creator who brought all things into being.” He continues by saying that the world, indeed the whole universe, come “from a supreme Principle of creative love,” and not from chaos.

Further, he said, “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.” The Creator “created beings and let them develop in accordance with the internal laws that He has given to each one, so that they could arrive at their fulfillment.”

Notice, Pope Francis never states that all changes are the result of evolution. He simply says that God created life in such a way that it can evolve, or change over time to reach its full potential. What its full potential means is not clear, and could cover quite a few different interpretations, everything from guided evolution that produces all the panoply of present life, to special creation of each species, genus, or family that then develops to its full potential, within the bounds of its type.

In particular with regard to human origins, he said, “God created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfillment.”

“God gives human beings a different sort of autonomy from that of nature, which is freedom,” the Pope said. “No matter how limited, man’s activity partakes of the power of God and is able to build a world fit for his dual life of body and spirit, to build a humane world for all human beings.”

What can we take from this? More.

* I remember sitting in Holy Family a couple of years ago, when the priest who was preaching at that mass took care to inform us that all of the fathers (there is a seminary associated with the church) would go to prison rather than teach under compulsion any doctrine concerning sexuality that was not a doctrine of the Catholic Church or deny any of the Church’s doctrines. That would be one way of making clear where the Church stands.  Maybe in prison, but nonetheless, where it has always stood.

That kind of attitude has brought an abrupt end to certain types of oppression in Canada. We hope for religious freedom, for you as well as for us.

Put another way: Come on in, the water’s fine. (= You don’t have to put up with it just because some government official says you do.)

Follow UD News at Twitter! – O’Leary for News (a Catholic in communion with the Church)

Comments
Silver asiatic, I agree about the Catholic pro I'd conference. Maybe that idea could ran by buffalo of the IDVolution blog.wallstreeter43
November 11, 2014
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Correct silver asiatic, I feel the same way. When I was an evolutionist I never saw a theological problem. I left for 2 reasons . Some of The grandiose claims being made evolutionists just didn't fit with reality and the strength of the I'D claims from the position of inference to the best explanation fit in better .It's that simple. I would have absolutely no problem going back to evolution but I only see the theory getting weaker over the years.wallstreeter43
November 11, 2014
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Silver asiatic, yea I am starting to see some of my fellow Catholics starting to come out of the woodworks, at least more so than 20 years years ago when almost all catholics were evolutionists, but like I said when I talked to my college bound nephews they didn't even know ow what I'D was but they were at least receptive to the concept. As for Keith , bringing me a pro evolution site to back up point isn't going to do much my friend. I still have my posts from 6 years back on forums when I was arguing on the side of evolution against young earth creationists. I never knew what ID's arguments were back then but as soon as I saw Stephen Meyers signature in the cell I had developed major doubts about my faith in evolution. Spare me the based links dude, I was the same way when I was a pro evolutionist. The problem isn't that I don't know the evolutionary arguments. The problem is that I do know them and that is why I left evolutionwallstreeter43
November 11, 2014
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Graham2 - I don't see it that way myself. I'm a Catholic who accepts the ID inference. Nobody lobbied me and there is nothing political about my interest in ID. I looked at the evidence and it was convincing. I think other people, Catholics included, see it the same way.Silver Asiatic
November 11, 2014
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SA: So this is a political question ... lobbying for support from the RC church. The op isn't examining claims/evidence etc.Graham2
November 10, 2014
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One thing that would help would be a Catholic pro-ID conference each year.Silver Asiatic
November 10, 2014
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Theistic evolution is a competing claim. If Catholic scientists accepted ID that would mean an immense increase in support and visibility.Silver Asiatic
November 10, 2014
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I have what may be a stupid question (no comment Joe, you are still on probation). What does the church's view on evolution have to do with ID?centrestream
November 10, 2014
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wallstreeter True. There are some good developments along the way. Yes, Buffalo does a nice job. I've seen him at the Catholic Answers forum quite often also.
when I start to bring up points in favor of ID the subject magically changes to sports
LOL - I know what you mean.
I also wish that Catholic institutions would be more open about teaching ID and evolution together, even if its in a philosophy class.
Agreed. Some good teaching materials on the doctrine of creation are needed also and ID would fit in perfectly with that. Also, as you keep looking around you'll see more pro-ID Catholic voices out there but they often fly under the radar and are quiet about their support.Silver Asiatic
November 10, 2014
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wallstreeter43,
But you are also correct that as the theory of evolution continues to collapse more Catholic leaders will be more open about their opposition to it. Its just hard at time being patient for that day to happen.
You have a very long wait ahead of you.keith s
November 10, 2014
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#6 Silver Asiatic, yea trying to show compatibility with secular ideas has been the policy of the Vatican for a while, but I just wish for once that this pope or a future pope would take a stronger stance on pointing out the weaknesses of the theory of evolution that many of us here know about. But you are also correct that as the theory of evolution continues to collapse more Catholic leaders will be more open about their opposition to it. Its just hard at time being patient for that day to happen. during the Christmas holidays the topic of evolution always comes up when relatives come over I am basically the only one who takes a PRO ID stance and when I ask my relatives to explain their side, their arguments are usually the popularized arguments in favor of evolution, but when I start to bring up points in favor of ID the subject magically changes to sports lol. I also wish that Catholic institutions would be more open about teaching ID and evolution together, even if its in a philosophy class. I know that Buffalo here has a good site called IDvolution and hes a fellow Catholic, so there are a few of us pro ID catholics that are trying to get the ID message out. I guess im a little impatient at times, but ID will have its day in the sun one day :)wallstreeter43
November 10, 2014
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“Pope Francis never states that all changes are the result of evolution. He simply says that God created life in such a way that it can evolve, or change over time to reach its full potential. What its full potential means is not clear, and could cover quite a few different interpretations, everything from guided evolution that produces all the panoply of present life . . .” Sirius: How does this differ from the pro-Darwin position of Biologos, Falk, Venema et al? I can’t see that it does. And why does Biologos have a big picture of Francis up on its website?
I think the first difference is: "God created life". That's a big problem for the pro-Darwin position (which, I think, accepts abiogenesis). Now, of course, once you have God "intervening" (a word they hate) to create life, there are a lot of problems for the kind of theistic-unguided evolution that supposedly follows. The Pope cannot deny Catholic doctrine on the origin of the human soul or of original sin. St. John Paul II called the emergence of humanity an "ontological leap" -- there's no gradualism between man and animal. The rational, immortal human soul cannot be the product of evolution. There are huge problems for theistic evolution in the Catholic world. The Pope, for all of his admirable knowledge, may not even be aware of this. He's not expected to be an expert in science. The difference in the Catholic world from theistic evolutionists of other Christian denominations is that Catholicism is tightly bound to defined doctrines which cannot change. Every Pope knows that, of course. Some Catholic teachers have violated those doctrines (John Haught comes to mind, and also Ken Miller) and if that kind of dissent becomes public and damaging enough, they will be disciplined (as some Catholic teachers have been after having been given long periods to reflect and change and discuss). So, the difference is that Biologos will not accept any intervention by God and, from what I've seen, accept fully the materialist view on origins from the origin of life through the full emergence of the human person by evolution. Some, like Francis Collins, make an exception for human moral law, although he is not clear about how God intervened to create that. But theistic evolution is a vague idea. It can work, somewhat, with Catholic teaching but only if it remains vague.Silver Asiatic
November 10, 2014
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wallstreeter #5 True. Theistic evolution of the kind that the Pope is talking about is deliberately vague. There are core Catholic doctrines which cannot be changed, but the science explanations around them can take on various forms. The Pope can't invent new doctrines and he has never intended that. Like previous popes, he's trying to show as much compatibility as possible with secular ideas. We can be very sure that as evolutionary theory continues to collapse, Catholic leaders will more openly make that known. It's basically a sign of respect to the discipline of science.Silver Asiatic
November 10, 2014
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First of all the pope can have many personal beliefs , but those personal beliefs aren't dogmas that we catholics need to believe in order to stay catholic . We are actually free to accept theistic evolution or reject it , and I as. A catholic reject it for intelligent design , and this was after believing in evolution for the first 41 years of my life . I credit doctor Stephen Meyer and his signature in the cell video fir leading me down this road , or should I say up this road ;) We as Catholics arent requires to accept evolution at all.wallstreeter43
November 10, 2014
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Sirius at 3: Could they be trying to co-opt him?News
November 9, 2014
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Ann Gauger wrote: "Pope Francis never states that all changes are the result of evolution. He simply says that God created life in such a way that it can evolve, or change over time to reach its full potential. What its full potential means is not clear, and could cover quite a few different interpretations, everything from guided evolution that produces all the panoply of present life . . ." How does this differ from the pro-Darwin position of Biologos, Falk, Venema et al? I can't see that it does. And why does Biologos have a big picture of Francis up on its website?Sirius
November 9, 2014
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What its full potential means is not clear It never is, is it ?Graham2
November 9, 2014
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OT: Intelligent Design - Stephen C. Meyer, PhD - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJNMJef-gqU Irving Bible Church (November 2, 2014) - Lecture by Stephen Meyer. A Dialogue on Intelligent Design and Evolution - Michael Behe, PhD - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlvYn0WrHaY Sept. 2014bornagain77
November 9, 2014
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