Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinism has already been quietly abandoned, and people are mainly afraid of the bereft trolls?

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Here’s an interesting perspective from Paul Benedict (War of Words, July 2, 2011):

Stephen C. Meyer, expounding Intelligent Design in his book Signature in the Cell, makes a point he does not seem to appreciate: for decades microbiologists have been abandoning Darwinism. Breakthrough technologies have shown that life at the cellular level is complex beyond anything Darwin or any 19th century biologist could have predicted. From the variety of cellular functions to the complex information transmitted in the gene, many outstanding scientists recognize that the math just doesn’t work. Intelligent Design represents only one concession to the statistical impossibility that chance caused the life of simple cells. Interrupting the following parade of microbiologists who, like Meyers, recognize that random chance alone cannot have produced the simplest cellular life, are conclusions flowing from this scientific consensus. 

Christian de Duve, for example, a Nobel Prize winner, and in no way an advocate of Intelligent Design, has abandoned random chance as the agent of upwards evolution or the ascent of man. He envisions primordial planet earth as a chemical reaction waiting to happen. Recognizing that the odds of random chance being impossibly against the formation of a single cell, let alone man, he has ceaselessly been searching for the string of chemical reactions that, once started, must have inevitably and, without chance, led to mankind. So far… no luck.

Ilya Prigogine, won his 1977 Nobel Prize for his theory that biological life self-assembled from inorganic non-life through the non-equilibrium thermodynamic processes. Again, random chance was abandoned, this time for the notion of an outside force arising in a thermodynamic process that, somehow, energized evolution. Such a force has never been identified.

Manfred Eigen, won the Nobel Prize in 1967 for his work measuring extremely fast chemical reactions brought about by energy pulses. Though proud to use the term evolution, his models of the origin of life are not based on chance but on self-organizing chemical reactions that cycle to higher and higher levels. He is also the author of Eigen’s Paradox that explains a critical problem in positing cycles of RNA that lead to DNA.

Lynn Margulis believes parasites aided random chance in the evolution of the cell.

Freeman Dyson, feeling random chance and self-organizing molecular scenarios are insufficient seems to believe in a combination of Eigens self-organizing RNA cycles andLynn Margulis sense that cellular evolution was the result of parasites.

Michael Polanyi, whose interest in science often impacted his philosophic notions, rejected chance as the origin of life in Lifes Irreducible Structure.

Bernd-Olaf Kuppers, like Michael Polanyi, supports his notions that the whole (the living cell) is greater than the sum of its parts (chemical reactions) with evidence that random chance cannot result in the irreducible complexity of a living organism (60) nor explain the information it transmits.

Bernd-Olaf Kuppers, using methodology like that of noted Darwinian apologist Richard Dawkins, also modeled mathematical algorithms that guide randomly generated computer simulations of origin of life scenarios. Kuppers calls his theory of self-organization the molecular-Darwinistic approach. It is hard to tell what Kuppers means by statements like, inanimate matter organized itself of its own accord into animate systems (82). More.

A libertarian, he ends with a Cry, Fredom: “Tradition dies hard in every generation. Ignorance is not a lack of information; it is willfully ignoring knowledge. Centralized bureaucratic power breeds fear even in professionals, but tenured teachers can do better. It’s time to tell the kids: it is statistically impossible that Darwin’s explanation of the origin of life is correct.”

Comments
Driver, how did I know that you would find smug satisfaction in shallow lies???bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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Mung:
Elizabeth Liddle:
But it’s a bit silly when talking about sexual reproduction, because we don’t have fidelity anyway – each child genome is unique.
Why do you persist in making false claims, particularly when they are so easily shown to be false?
Why do you, Mung, insist on inferring that I am making deliberately false claims when I have given you no reason to expect me to? I am perfectly capable of being mistaken; however, I would never deliberately make a false claim, whether or not it "could easily be shown to be false". I'm not interested in false claims. Why should I be? And, in this instance, I'm not even sure what you are getting at. I say that in the case of sexual reproduction (as opposed to cloning) fidelity isn't relevant anyway, because each child's genotype is a unique combination of two parental genotypes (actually four grand-parental genotypes), and you respond to that with several quotes about cloning (i.e. cell-division) processes! I was talking about meiosis, and said so, explicitly. Your response is about mitosis. There is a difference :)Elizabeth Liddle
July 3, 2011
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ba77,
This proof comes from the fact that it is now shown, from quantum mechanics, that ‘transcendent information’ is its own unique ‘physical’ entity. A physical entity that is shown to be completely independent of any energy-matter space-time constraints. A physical entity that is shown to be completely independent of any energy-matter space-time constraints
Okay. This is not true. Quantum entities are NOT independent of constraints.
Quantum Information does not ‘emerge’ from any material basis.
What does this mean, to you? That QM is magic?? (Magic, therefore there is a magician ROTFL)
And if mind is not a product of real matter, but rather is the creator of the "illusion" of material reality (which has, in fact, despite the materialists, been known to be the case, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in 1925
It is a mistake to think that non-locality or non-realism are indicators that the mind creates reality. We exist mainly as macro-scale beings. Therefore we have assumptions about the world that turn out not to be true. This does not mean the world is a product of the mind! You seem to think that because the QM world is strange (does not conform to our large scale expectations) that therefore it cannot be natural. IOW, in your mind you are equivocating on "weird=unnatural". However, weird to us does NOT mean that something is not natural. Do you see?
The primary reason for this failure of General Relativity to maintain centrality, for different points of observation in the universe, is due to the fact that there are limited (10^80) material particles to work with.
GR proceeds on the assumption that there are no privileged frames of reference. (This assumption is validated by the evidence confirming GR). No matter how many atoms there were in the universe, GR would never posit that Earth was at the centre of the universe.
These findings of modern science are pretty much exactly what we would expect to see if this universe were indeed created
Are they? Why?
These findings certainly seem to go to the very heart of the age old question asked of many parents by their children, “How can God hear everybody’s prayers at the same time?
In GR, there is no objective "at the same time". Simultaneity varies depending on where you're observing from.
Why should the expansion of the universe, or the quantum wave collapse of the entire universe, even care that you or I, or anyone else, should exist?
The expansion of the universe doesn't care about you, ba77. Or me. It's an expansion. It's just more space. It doesn't have feelings.
Driver, perhaps you will just deny that materialism is at a complete loss as to explain why the universe would even ‘care’ that each of us exist
It seems we have come off track again. I thought you were going to explain how non-locality and non-realism were proof of theism. Or have you given up on that? If so, does that mean you're not going to link to Aspect's experiments any more? If you cannot follow up on the non-locality non-reality angle, then if you can establish by rational means (and judicious links, no doubt) that the wavefunction cares about conscious observers I will convert to theism. Of course there will be a problem as to which god or gods but we will cross that bridge if we come to it.Driver
July 3, 2011
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Elizabeth Liddle:
But it’s a bit silly when talking about sexual reproduction, because we don’t have fidelity anyway – each child genome is unique.
Why do you persist in making false claims, particularly when they are so easily shown to be false?
Multiple genetic changes occur during the evolution of normal cells into cancer cells. This evolution is facilitated in cancer cells by loss of fidelity in the processes that replicate, repair, and segregate the genome. Recent advances in our understanding of the cell cycle reveal how fidelity is normally achieved by the coordinated activity of cyclin-dependent kinases, checkpoint controls, and repair pathways and how this fidelity can be abrogated by specific genetic changes. These insights suggest molecular mechanisms for cellular transformation and may help to identify potential targets for improved cancer therapies. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/266/5192/1821.short
The cell cycle proceeds by a defined sequence of events where late events depend upon completion of early events. The aim of the dependency of events is to distribute complete and accurate replicas of the genome to daughter cells. DNA damage checkpoints ensure the fidelity of genetic information both by arresting cell cycle progression and facilitating DNA repair pathways. http://homepage.mac.com/enognog/checkpoint.htm
Each period of the cell cycle requires selective expression of genes that encode cell cycle regulatory proteins. A broad spectrum of signalling mechanisms integrate and amplify growth-related regulatory cues that mediate fidelity of cell cycle control. http://www.els.net/WileyCDA/ElsArticle/refId-a0001354.html
Cell division involves the distribution of identical genetic material, DNA, to two daughters cells. What is most remarkable is the fidelity with which the DNA is passed along, without dilution or error, from one generation to the next. http://www.uic.edu/classes/bios/bios100/lecturesf04am/lect16.htm
Mung
July 3, 2011
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For instance we now know that evolution can be quite rapid – yes, it proceeds incrementally, but the effects of natural selection can be observed between one generation and the next.
How is that non-Darwinian?
... the effects of natural selection can be observed between one generation and the next.
So natural selection is the cause and it's effects are observed how?
Also, now that we know more about evo devo, we know that small genetic changes can result in quite large phenytopic changes.
How is that non-Darwinian? You think Darwin wasn't aware of mutant creatures?
Drift is now known to be responsible for many important changes in allele frequency over time, and adaptation is not explicitly mentioned (though it is implicit in “natural selection).
How is that non-Darwinian? I'm pretty sure it was pointed out to Darwin early on that not all traits are adaptive. He didn't seem to have a problem with that. and on it goes...Mung
July 3, 2011
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,,,as to further solidify the 'Theistic Inference' from quantum mechanics; ,,, First I noticed that the earth demonstrates centrality in the universe in this video Dr. Dembski posted a while back; The Known Universe - Dec. 2009 - a very cool video (please note the centrality of the earth in the universe) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U ,,, for a while I tried to see if the 4-D space-time of General Relativity was sufficient to explain centrality we witness for the earth in the universe,,, 4-Dimensional Space-Time Of General Relativity - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3991873/ ,,, yet I kept running into the same problem for establishing the sufficiency of General Relativity to explain our centrality in this universe, in that every time I would perform a 'mental experiment' of trying radically different points of observation in the universe, General Relativity would fail to maintain centrality for the radically different point of observation in the universe. The primary reason for this failure of General Relativity to maintain centrality, for different points of observation in the universe, is due to the fact that there are limited (10^80) material particles to work with. Though this failure of General Relativity was obvious to me, I needed more proof so as to establish it more rigorously, so i dug around a bit and found this; The Cauchy Problem In General Relativity - Igor Rodnianski Excerpt: 2.2 Large Data Problem In General Relativity - While the result of Choquet-Bruhat and its subsequent refinements guarantee the existence and uniqueness of a (maximal) Cauchy development, they provide no information about its geodesic completeness and thus, in the language of partial differential equations, constitutes a local existence. ,,, More generally, there are a number of conditions that will guarantee the space-time will be geodesically incomplete.,,, In the language of partial differential equations this means an impossibility of a large data global existence result for all initial data in General Relativity. http://www.icm2006.org/proceedings/Vol_III/contents/ICM_Vol_3_22.pdf and also 'serendipitously' found this,,, THE GOD OF THE MATHEMATICIANS - DAVID P. GOLDMAN - August 2010 Excerpt: Gödel's personal God is under no obligation to behave in a predictable orderly fashion, and Gödel produced what may be the most damaging critique of general relativity. In a Festschrift, (a book honoring Einstein), for Einstein's seventieth birthday in 1949, Gödel demonstrated the possibility of a special case in which, as Palle Yourgrau described the result, "the large-scale geometry of the world is so warped that there exist space-time curves that bend back on themselves so far that they close; that is, they return to their starting point." This means that "a highly accelerated spaceship journey along such a closed path, or world line, could only be described as time travel." In fact, "Gödel worked out the length and time for the journey, as well as the exact speed and fuel requirements." Gödel, of course, did not actually believe in time travel, but he understood his paper to undermine the Einsteinian worldview from within. http://www.faqs.org/periodicals/201008/2080027241.html But if General Relativity is insufficient to explain the centrality we witness for ourselves in the universe, what else is? Universal Quantum wave collapse to each unique point of observation! To prove this point I dug around a bit and found this experiment,,, This following experiment extended the double slit experiment to show that the 'spooky actions', for instantaneous quantum wave collapse, happen regardless of any considerations for time or distance i.e. The following experiment shows that quantum actions are 'universal and instantaneous': Wheeler's Classic Delayed Choice Experiment: Excerpt: Now, for many billions of years the photon is in transit in region 3. Yet we can choose (many billions of years later) which experimental set up to employ – the single wide-focus, or the two narrowly focused instruments. We have chosen whether to know which side of the galaxy the photon passed by (by choosing whether to use the two-telescope set up or not, which are the instruments that would give us the information about which side of the galaxy the photon passed). We have delayed this choice until a time long after the particles "have passed by one side of the galaxy, or the other side of the galaxy, or both sides of the galaxy," so to speak. Yet, it seems paradoxically that our later choice of whether to obtain this information determines which side of the galaxy the light passed, so to speak, billions of years ago. So it seems that time has nothing to do with effects of quantum mechanics. And, indeed, the original thought experiment was not based on any analysis of how particles evolve and behave over time – it was based on the mathematics. This is what the mathematics predicted for a result, and this is exactly the result obtained in the laboratory. http://www.bottomlayer.com/bottom/basic_delayed_choice.htm ,, and to make universal quantum Wave collapse much more 'personal' I found this,,, "It was not possible to formulate the laws (of quantum theory) in a fully consistent way without reference to consciousness." Eugene Wigner (1902 -1995) from his collection of essays "Symmetries and Reflections – Scientific Essays"; Eugene Wigner laid the foundation for the theory of symmetries in quantum mechanics, for which he received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1963. http://eugene-wigner.co.tv/ Here is the key experiment that led Wigner to his Nobel Prize winning work on quantum symmetries: Eugene Wigner Excerpt: To express this basic experience in a more direct way: the world does not have a privileged center, there is no absolute rest, preferred direction, unique origin of calendar time, even left and right seem to be rather symmetric. The interference of electrons, photons, neutrons has indicated that the state of a particle can be described by a vector possessing a certain number of components. As the observer is replaced by another observer (working elsewhere, looking at a different direction, using another clock, perhaps being left-handed), the state of the very same particle is described by another vector, obtained from the previous vector by multiplying it with a matrix. This matrix transfers from one observer to another. http://www.reak.bme.hu/Wigner_Course/WignerBio/wb1.htm i.e. In the experiment the 'world' (i.e. the universe) does not have a ‘privileged center’. Yet strangely, the conscious observer does exhibit a 'privileged center'. This is since the 'matrix', which determines which vector will be used to describe the particle in the experiment, is 'observer-centric' in its origination! Thus explaining Wigner’s dramatic statement, “It was not possible to formulate the laws (of quantum theory) in a fully consistent way without reference to consciousness.” I find it extremely interesting, and strange, that quantum mechanics tells us that instantaneous quantum wave collapse to its ‘uncertain’ 3-D state is centered on each individual observer in the universe, whereas, 4-D space-time cosmology (General Relativity) tells us each 3-D point in the universe is central to the expansion of the universe. These findings of modern science are pretty much exactly what we would expect to see if this universe were indeed created, and sustained, from a higher dimension by a omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal Being who knows everything that is happening everywhere in the universe at the same time. These findings certainly seem to go to the very heart of the age old question asked of many parents by their children, “How can God hear everybody’s prayers at the same time?”,,, i.e. Why should the expansion of the universe, or the quantum wave collapse of the entire universe, even care that you or I, or anyone else, should exist? Only Theism offers a rational explanation as to why you or I, or anyone else, should have such undeserved significance in such a vast universe: Psalm 33:13-15 The LORD looks from heaven; He sees all the sons of men. From the place of His dwelling He looks on all the inhabitants of the earth; He fashions their hearts individually; He considers all their works. Driver, perhaps you will just deny that materialism is at a complete loss as to explain why the universe would even 'care' that each of us exist, but there is nothing I can do to change such irrationality, save shake my head.bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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and to, once again, dovetail into Dembski and Marks's work on Conservation of Information;,,, LIFE'S CONSERVATION LAW: Why Darwinian Evolution Cannot Create Biological Information William A. Dembski and Robert J. Marks II http://evoinfo.org/publications/lifes-conservation-law/ ,,,Encoded classical information, such as what we find in computer programs, and yes as we find encoded in DNA, is found to be a subset of 'transcendent' quantum information by the following method:,,, This following research provides solid falsification for Rolf Landauer’s contention that information encoded in a computer is merely physical (merely ‘emergent’ from a material basis) since he believed it always required energy to erase it; Quantum knowledge cools computers: New understanding of entropy – June 2011 Excerpt: No heat, even a cooling effect; In the case of perfect classical knowledge of a computer memory (zero entropy), deletion of the data requires in theory no energy at all. The researchers prove that “more than complete knowledge” from quantum entanglement with the memory (negative entropy) leads to deletion of the data being accompanied by removal of heat from the computer and its release as usable energy. This is the physical meaning of negative entropy. Renner emphasizes, however, “This doesn’t mean that we can develop a perpetual motion machine.” The data can only be deleted once, so there is no possibility to continue to generate energy. The process also destroys the entanglement, and it would take an input of energy to reset the system to its starting state. The equations are consistent with what’s known as the second law of thermodynamics: the idea that the entropy of the universe can never decrease. Vedral says “We’re working on the edge of the second law. If you go any further, you will break it.” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110601134300.htm ,,,And here is the empirical confirmation that quantum information is 'conserved';,,, Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.htmlbornagain77
July 3, 2011
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Driver states: 'The onus is on you to show how quantum effects falsify the ToE.' Thus once again, since you can't page up to post 20, I lay it out; Neo-Darwinian evolution purports to explain all the wondrously amazing complexity of life on earth by reference solely to chance and necessity processes acting on energy and matter (i.e. by purely material processes). In fact neo-Darwinian evolution makes the grand materialistic claim that the staggering levels of unmatched complex functional information we find in life, and even the ‘essence of life’ itself, simply ‘emerged’ from purely material processes operating over vast eons of time. And even though this basic scientific point, of the ability of purely material processes to generate even trivial levels of complex functional information, has spectacularly failed to be established, (Behe; Sanford; Abel; Dembski; Marks) we now have a much greater proof, than this stunning failure for validation, that ‘put the lie’ to the grand claims of neo-Darwinian evolution. This proof comes from the fact that it is now shown, from quantum mechanics, that ‘transcendent information’ is its own unique ‘physical’ entity. A physical entity that is shown to be completely independent of any energy-matter space-time constraints, i.e. Quantum Information does not ‘emerge’ from any material basis. Moreover this ‘transcendent information’ is shown to be dominant of energy-matter in that this ‘information’ is shown to be the entity that is in fact constraining the energy-matter processes of the cell to be so far out of thermodynamic equilibrium. notes: Falsification of neo-Darwinism; First, Here is the falsification of local realism (reductive materialism). Here is a clip of a talk in which Alain Aspect talks about the failure of ‘local realism’, or the failure of reductive materialism, to explain reality: The Failure Of Local Realism – Reductive Materialism – Alain Aspect – video http://www.metacafe.com/w/4744145 The falsification for local realism (reductive materialism) was recently greatly strengthened: Physicists close two loopholes while violating local realism – November 2010 Excerpt: The latest test in quantum mechanics provides even stronger support than before for the view that nature violates local realism and is thus in contradiction with a classical worldview. http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-physicists-loopholes-violating-local-realism.html Quantum Measurements: Common Sense Is Not Enough, Physicists Show – July 2009 Excerpt: scientists have now proven comprehensively in an experiment for the first time that the experimentally observed phenomena cannot be described by non-contextual models with hidden variables. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090722142824.htm (of note: hidden variables were postulated to remove the need for ‘spooky’ forces, as Einstein termed them — forces that act instantaneously at great distances, thereby breaking the most cherished rule of relativity theory, that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.) And yet, quantum entanglement, which rigorously falsified local realism (reductive materialism) as the complete description of reality, is now found in molecular biology on a massive scale! Quantum Information/Entanglement In DNA & Protein Folding – short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5936605/ Quantum entanglement holds together life’s blueprint – 2010 Excerpt: When the researchers analysed the DNA without its helical structure, they found that the electron clouds were not entangled. But when they incorporated DNA’s helical structure into the model, they saw that the electron clouds of each base pair became entangled with those of its neighbours (arxiv.org/abs/1006.4053v1). “If you didn’t have entanglement, then DNA would have a simple flat structure, and you would never get the twist that seems to be important to the functioning of DNA,” says team member Vlatko Vedral of the University of Oxford. http://neshealthblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/quantum-entanglement-holds-together-lifes-blueprint/ The relevance of continuous variable entanglement in DNA – July 2010 Excerpt: We consider a chain of harmonic oscillators with dipole-dipole interaction between nearest neighbours resulting in a van der Waals type bonding. The binding energies between entangled and classically correlated states are compared. We apply our model to DNA. By comparing our model with numerical simulations we conclude that entanglement may play a crucial role in explaining the stability of the DNA double helix. http://arxiv.org/abs/1006.4053v1 Quantum Information confirmed in DNA by direct empirical research; DNA Can Discern Between Two Quantum States, Research Shows – June 2011 Excerpt: — DNA — can discern between quantum states known as spin. – The researchers fabricated self-assembling, single layers of DNA attached to a gold substrate. They then exposed the DNA to mixed groups of electrons with both directions of spin. Indeed, the team’s results surpassed expectations: The biological molecules reacted strongly with the electrons carrying one of those spins, and hardly at all with the others. The longer the molecule, the more efficient it was at choosing electrons with the desired spin, while single strands and damaged bits of DNA did not exhibit this property. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331104014.htm Information and entropy – top-down or bottom-up development in living systems? A.C. McINTOSH Excerpt: This paper highlights the distinctive and non-material nature of information and its relationship with matter, energy and natural forces. It is proposed in conclusion that it is the non-material information (transcendent to the matter and energy) that is actually itself constraining the local thermodynamics to be in ordered disequilibrium and with specified raised free energy levels necessary for the molecular and cellular machinery to operate. http://journals.witpress.com/paperinfo.asp?pid=420 i.e. It is very interesting to note that quantum entanglement, which conclusively demonstrates that ‘information’ in its pure ‘quantum form’ is completely transcendent of any time and space constraints, should be found in molecular biology on such a massive scale, for how can the quantum entanglement ‘effect’ in biology possibly be explained by a material (matter/energy space/time) ’cause’ when the quantum entanglement ‘effect’ falsified material particles as its own ‘causation’ in the first place? (A. Aspect) Appealing to the probability of various configurations of material particles, as neo-Darwinism does, simply will not help since a timeless/spaceless cause must be supplied which is beyond the capacity of the energy/matter particles themselves to supply! To give a coherent explanation for an effect that is shown to be completely independent of any time and space constraints one is forced to appeal to a cause that is itself not limited to time and space! i.e. Put more simply, you cannot explain a effect by a cause that has been falsified by the very same effect you are seeking to explain! Improbability arguments of various ‘specified’ configurations of material particles, which have been a staple of the arguments against neo-Darwinism, simply do not apply since the cause is not within the material particles in the first place! ,,,To refute this falsification of neo-Darwinism, one must falsify Alain Aspect, and company’s, falsification of local realism (reductive materialism)! ,,, As well, appealing to ‘non-reductive’ materialism (multiverse or many-worlds) to try to explain quantum non-locality in molecular biology ends up destroying the very possibility of doing science rationally; BRUCE GORDON: Hawking’s irrational arguments – October 2010 Excerpt: For instance, we find multiverse cosmologists debating the “Boltzmann Brain” problem: In the most “reasonable” models for a multiverse, it is immeasurably more likely that our consciousness is associated with a brain that has spontaneously fluctuated into existence in the quantum vacuum than it is that we have parents and exist in an orderly universe with a 13.7 billion-year history. This is absurd. The multiverse hypothesis is therefore falsified because it renders false what we know to be true about ourselves. Clearly, embracing the multiverse idea entails a nihilistic irrationality that destroys the very possibility of science. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/1/hawking-irrational-arguments/ ,,,Michael Behe has a profound answer to the infinite multiverse (non-reductive materialism) argument in “Edge of Evolution”. If there are infinite universes, then we couldn’t trust our senses, because it would be just as likely that our universe might only consist of a human brain that pops into existence which has the neurons configured just right to only give the appearance of past memories. It would also be just as likely that we are floating brains in a lab, with some scientist feeding us fake experiences. Those scenarios would be just as likely as the one we appear to be in now (one universe with all of our experiences being “real”). Bottom line is, if there really are an infinite number of universes out there, then we can’t trust anything we perceive to be true, which means there is no point in seeking any truth whatsoever. “The multiverse idea rests on assumptions that would be laughed out of town if they came from a religious text.” Gregg Easterbrook ================= Alain Aspect and Anton Zeilinger by Richard Conn Henry – Physics Professor – John Hopkins University Excerpt: Why do people cling with such ferocity to belief in a mind-independent reality? It is surely because if there is no such reality, then ultimately (as far as we can know) mind alone exists. And if mind is not a product of real matter, but rather is the creator of the “illusion” of material reality (which has, in fact, despite the materialists, been known to be the case, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in 1925), then a theistic view of our existence becomes the only rational alternative to solipsism (solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one’s own mind is sure to exist). (Dr. Henry’s referenced experiment and paper – “An experimental test of non-local realism” by S. Gröblacher et. al., Nature 446, 871, April 2007 – “To be or not to be local” by Alain Aspect, Nature 446, 866, April 2007 =========================bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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oops the oops comment should have gone at the end! Well, if it can happen to DNA it can happen to me....Elizabeth Liddle
July 3, 2011
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Mung, that's helpful. Well, sorta. At least it doesn't try to include OOL. But it's a bit out of date. Evolutionary theory has progressed hugely since it conformed to that definition.
At the heart of the modern synthesis is the view that evolution is gradual and can be explained by small genetic changes in populations over time, due to the impact of natural selection on the phenotypic variation among individuals in the populations (Mayr 1982; Futuyama 1986).
For instance we now know that evolution can be quite rapid - yes, it proceeds incrementally, but the effects of natural selection can be observed between one generation and the next. Also, now that we know more about evo devo, we know that small genetic changes can result in quite large phenytopic changes.
According to the modern synthesis as originally established, genetic variation in populations arises by chance through mutation (it is now known to be caused sometimes by mistakes in DNA replication and via genetic recombination—the crossing over of homologous chromosomes during meiosis). This genetic variation leads to phenotypic changes among members of a population.
And that's poorly described anyway. Not all genetic variation leads to phenotypic changes. Also "by chance through mutation" just means that variation (new alleles, or even new genes) occurs by stochastic processes. There's a lot of interest right now in the possiblity that the kinds of mechanisms that result in variety and novelty may themselves be selected at population level. Also "mistakes" is misleading. It implies that there is a "correct" process and a "mistaken" process. That might be just about OK when talking about cloning species like bacteria, where it might be legitimate to talk about less-than 100% faithful replication as "mistakes", but even then "non-fidelity" would be better. But it's a bit silly when talking about sexual reproduction, because we don't have fidelity anyway - each child genome is unique. I find that term unnecessarily loaded.
Evolution consists primarily of changes in the frequencies of alleles between one generation and another as a result of natural selection. Speciation, the creation of new species, is a gradual process that generally occurs when populations become more and more diversified as a result of having been isolated, such as via geographic barriers, and eventually the populations develop mechanisms of reproductive isolation. Over time, these small changes will lead to major changes in design or the creation of new taxa.
Again, out of date. Drift is now known to be responsible for many important changes in allele frequency over time, and adaptation is not explicitly mentioned (though it is implicit in "natural selection). Most importantly, there is interaction between drift and adaptation, in that drift itself may alter the fitness landscape (this, btw, is one reason why the NTL theorems don't apply to evolution - because changes to the fitness landscape are not independent of the search).
A major conclusion of the modern synthesis is that the concept of populations can explain evolutionary changes in a way that is consistent with the observations of naturalists and the known genetic mechanisms (Mayr 1982).
Again this is nearly 30 years out of date! It ignores the possibility that Darwinian processes also may be important at a level above an individual population.
Though agreement is not universal on the parameters of the modern synthesis, many descriptions hold as basic (1) the primacy of natural selection as the creative agent of evolutionary change; (2) gradualism (accumulation of small genetic changes); and (3) the extrapolation of microevolutionary processes (changes within species) to macroevolutionary trends (changes about the species level, such as the origin of new designs and broad patterns in history). Evolutionary change is a shift of the frequency of genes in a population, and macroevolutionary trends come from gradual accumulation of small genetic changes.
Yes. That is all still true.
Note, for example, the words of two of the leading figures in evolutionary theory, Ernst Mayr and Stephen Jay Gould. “The proponents of the synthetic theory maintain that all evolution is due to the accumulation of small genetic changes, guided by natural selection, and that transspecific evolution is nothing but an extrapolation and magnification of the events that take place within populations and species.” (Mayr 1963) “The core of this synthetic theory restates the two most characteristic assertions of Darwin himself: first, that evolution is a two-stage process (random variation as raw material, natural selection as a directing force); secondly, that evolutionary change is generally slow, steady, gradual, and continuous. . . Orthodox neo-Darwinians extrapolate these even and continuous changes to the most profound structural transitions in life.” (Gould 1980)
Again, both writers, great though they were, are now out of date. The huge areas of advance since then, I would have said, include: 1. The entire domain of evo-devo 2. Investigations into the evolution of evolvability, e.g. the optimisation of variance producing mechanisms. 3. neo-Lamarckism, e.g. heritable phenotypic effects that are not encoded in DNA 4. Systems level analysis of heritability. 5. Increasing understanding of how genetypic variance translates to phenotypic variance, including gene-gene interactions and gene-environment interactions. Thing is, while I'm all for finding flaws in modern biology, and have no problem, in principle, with investigating the possibility of Design as a causal factor in any phenomenon, it seems to me to be important to get the irrelevancies (like worldviews and such like) off the table, and actually evaluate theories on the basis of whether they account well for the data. And a good theory is going to be subject to continuous development, because every answer (especially positive answers) raises a whole host of new questions. oops excuse WoT. Will get back to the Tennis Thread :) Many of the articles I see on this forum are tilts at very old windmills that have already been investigated and archived by evolutionary biologists. Evolutionary science is not static. But nor is it busy pulling out its own roots. Darwin's key insight - that adaptation and diversification will tend to occur in a population of self-replicating entities that reproduce with variance in the ability to reproduce successfully within a given environment -remains as self-evidently true as it was the day Darwin (and Wallace) figured it out. That's why "microevolution" is largely accepted, even by those who query whether it can explain all that we observe. Well, it can't, because for a start, Darwin's theory doesn't explain how the whole caboodle got started, and,for another, doesn't explain how the variance gets introduced. Those are both givens in Darwin's theory. Much of the progress in evolutionary theory over the last century has been made in addressing that second question, although a bit has even been made on addressing the first.Elizabeth Liddle
July 3, 2011
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well Driver I suggest, since quantum non-local information has now been found on a massive scale in molecular biology, that you begin to learn how to integrate quantum theory and neo-Darwinism
The onus is on you to show how quantum effects falsify the ToE.
or perhaps you will choose to just ignore the elephant in the living room
The elephant of non-local non-realism? I asked you how is it an elephant? WHAT, ba77, is the connection between quantum reality and atheism? There must have been a day when you said "I shall henceforth link to Aspect's experiments as proof that there is at least one god." I am genuinely fascinated as to what happened on this day. There is a potentially marvellous proof in the offing if it can just be teased out of you.Driver
July 3, 2011
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Elizabeth, for your edification:
When ID proponents on this site use the term “Darwinism,” they are referring to Neo-Darwinism, also called the modern evolutionary synthesis or Neo-Darwinian evolution (“NDE”), the basic tenants of which are described in the New World Encyclopedia as follows:
https://uncommondescent.com/glossary/Mung
July 3, 2011
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It seems to me it's a white elephant in the living room, ba77! I have no clue what it's for, but every way I turn, there it is! I'm thinking of taking it to a garage sale. Unless someone can find me the user's manual.Elizabeth Liddle
July 3, 2011
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Driver you state: 'Darwinian evolution isn’t a quantum theory, so I don’t know what you are talking about.' well Driver I suggest, since quantum non-local information has now been found on a massive scale in molecular biology, that you begin to learn how to integrate quantum theory and neo-Darwinism: https://uncommondescent.com/darwinism/darwinism-has-already-been-quietly-abandoned-and-people-are-mainly-afraid-of-the-bereft-trolls/#comment-387933 ,,, or perhaps you will choose to just ignore the elephant in the living room as Elizabeth has chosen to do!?!bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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Do you want to invoke non-reductive materialism (non-local realism) to explain neo-Darwinian evolution???
I'm sorry - this doesn't follow from my question. Darwinian evolution isn't a quantum theory, so I don't know what you are talking about. I'll rephrase: What is it about the fact that local realism is not true that leads you to conclude that atheism is false? I don't see the connection. To me, you might as well say the tides are proof that atheism is false. Never a miscommunication.Driver
July 3, 2011
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ba77:
John 1:1-3 In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.
Still one of my favorite passages in all Scripture.Elizabeth Liddle
July 3, 2011
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Mung:
Hi Lizzie, sometimes you need to move beyond the literal.
ho ho ho. heh.
Darwin offered a mechanism. Chance + necessity. That mechanism serves as an explanation. That explanation has been applied to the problem of the origin of origin of life. ok, so not by Darwin himself, but so what.
So what indeed. First: "Chance and Necessity" is not a "mechanism". Heritable differential reproduction is. Darwin proposed heritable differential reproduction as an explanation for the Origin of Species. Don't blame Darwin, or even call it "neo-Darwinian synthesis" if people speculate on natural mechanisms for the Origin of Life. They won't be Darwinian, because the Darwinian mechanism presupposes heritable differential reproduction, it doesn't explain it. That would be circular.
Well, since this is be literal minded day, Darwin never said any such thing. I don’t know who’s theory that is, but it’s not Darwin’s.
You are right - he never said those literal words. But that's what natural selection of heritable variation boils down to. It's not so much a theory as a syllogism: P1: Living things reproduce with variance P2: Some variants reproduce more than others C: Variants that reproduce the most will come to dominate the population.
Oh please. Go look it up. It’s not like it’s a mystery term that BA77 made up just to confuse you. Start with this: Neo-Darwinian Synthesis Have you considered writing fiction for a living?
Yes, Mung, I've written three fiction stories for children, and I do get royalties on those (Two, weirdly, are in German.). But I still don't know what "neo-Darwinism" is supposed to encompass when it's referenced here. It seems to be used to cover all kinds of things (OOL theories, for instance) that are not part of any "neo-Darwinist synthesis" that I am familiar with. It's usually taken to refer to the synthesis of Mendelian genetics with Darwinian evolutionary theory that took place in the 30s and 40s, but things have moved on a heck of a lot since then. However, it still doesn't include OOL, although most OOL theories do incorporate Darwinian processes. Different field though.Elizabeth Liddle
July 3, 2011
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Driver; 'So when did you discover that atheism entails local realism, ba77? Could you demonstrate the connection?' Do you want to invoke non-reductive materialism (non-local realism) to explain neo-Darwinian evolution??? Such as Koonin tried to invoke here; Some cautiously embrace the multiverse for the sake of defending Darwinism. https://uncommondescent.com/darwinism/some-cautiously-embrace-the-multiverse-for-the-sake-of-defending-darwinism/ i.e. Driver just how much absurdity are you willing to embrace to deny the reality of God???bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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The fundamental underpinning of Darwinian theory is the tautology (i.e. the obviously true statement) that: patterns that are good at persisting will tend to persist for longer than patterns that are not!
Well, since this is be literal minded day, Darwin never said any such thing. I don't know who's theory that is, but it's not Darwin's.
This is not the “grand overriding claim of” what you call “neo-Darwinism” (still not sure what that term is supposed to mean)
Oh please. Go look it up. It's not like it's a mystery term that BA77 made up just to confuse you. Start with this: Neo-Darwinian Synthesis Have you considered writing fiction for a living?Mung
July 3, 2011
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So when did you discover that atheism entails local realism, ba77? Could you demonstrate the connection?Driver
July 3, 2011
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Darwin didn’t even attempt to explain The Origin of Life, so to say that “it is statistically impossible that Darwin’s explanation of the origin of life is correct!” makes no sense.
Hi Lizzie, sometimes you need to move beyond the literal. Darwin offered a mechanism. Chance + necessity. That mechanism serves as an explanation. That explanation has been applied to the problem of the origin of origin of life. ok, so not by Darwin himself, but so what.Mung
July 3, 2011
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Elizabeth when you can't even fairly judge evidence, I'm REALLY not worried about you judging scripture correctly to use against me, especially when you have rejected belief in the One who said the words you alluded to!!!; Moreover markf and Elizabeth, since reality does, in fact reduce to a 'information theoretic' foundation of Logos, as postulated in John 1:1, and not to the 'indestructible particle' foundation as postulated by materialism, what gives you the right to think that atheists have any rigid foundation in science in the first place to make their increasing ludicrous claims??? notes: The following articles show that even atoms (Ions) are subject to teleportation: Ions have been teleported successfully for the first time by two independent research groups Excerpt: In fact, copying isn't quite the right word for it. In order to reproduce the quantum state of one atom in a second atom, the original has to be destroyed. This is unavoidable - it is enforced by the laws of quantum mechanics, which stipulate that you can't 'clone' a quantum state. In principle, however, the 'copy' can be indistinguishable from the original (that was destroyed),,, http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issues/2004/October/beammeup.asp Atom takes a quantum leap - 2009 Excerpt: Ytterbium ions have been 'teleported' over a distance of a metre.,,, "What you're moving is information, not the actual atoms," says Chris Monroe, from the Joint Quantum Institute at the University of Maryland in College Park and an author of the paper. But as two particles of the same type differ only in their quantum states, the transfer of quantum information is equivalent to moving the first particle to the location of the second. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2171769/posts leading quantum physicist Anton Zeilinger has followed in John Archibald Wheeler's footsteps (1911-2008) by insisting reality, at its most foundational level, is 'information'. "It from bit symbolizes the idea that every item of the physical world has at bottom - at a very deep bottom, in most instances - an immaterial source and explanation; that which we call reality arises in the last analysis from the posing of yes-no questions and the registering of equipment-evoked responses; in short, that things physical are information-theoretic in origin." John Archibald Wheeler Why the Quantum? It from Bit? A Participatory Universe? Excerpt: In conclusion, it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Thence the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: "In the beginning was the Word." Anton Zeilinger - a leading expert in quantum teleportation: http://www.metanexus.net/Magazine/ArticleDetail/tabid/68/id/8638/Default.aspx Zeilinger's principle The principle that any elementary system carries just one bit of information. This principle was put forward by the Austrian physicist Anton Zeilinger in 1999 and subsequently developed by him to derive several aspects of quantum mechanics. http://science.jrank.org/pages/20784/Zeilinger%27s-principle.html#ixzz17a7f88PM In the beginning was the bit - New Scientist Excerpt: Zeilinger's principle leads to the intrinsic randomness found in the quantum world. Consider the spin of an electron. Say it is measured along a vertical axis (call it the z axis) and found to be pointing up. Because one bit of information has been used to make that statement, no more information can be carried by the electron's spin. Consequently, no information is available to predict the amounts of spin in the two horizontal directions (x and y axes), so they are of necessity entirely random. If you then measure the spin in one of these directions, there is an equal chance of its pointing right or left, forward or back. This fundamental randomness is what we call Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. http://www.quantum.at/fileadmin/links/newscientist/bit.html 'Quantum Magic' Without Any 'Spooky Action at a Distance' - June 2011 Excerpt: A team of researchers led by Anton Zeilinger at the University of Vienna and the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information of the Austrian Academy of Sciences used a system which does not allow for entanglement, and still found results which cannot be interpreted classically. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110624111942.htm ============= John 1:1-3 In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. The Word - Sara Groves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ofE-GZ8zTU ,,,bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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OT: Michael Denton has a new video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN54TY0FQt8bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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Elizabeth and you cite is???bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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ba77:
Elizabeth and so the story goes!!! and your concrete proof for all this is what?
Well, ba77, what is your "concrete proof" that Behe has not been adequately refuted? I've read a great many reviews of Behe's book and they seem to me to consist of very persuasive refutations that cite actual evidence to support their case. I understand that you yourself are not persuaded, but I do not see you considering the counter-evidence - yet this is what you repeatedly accuse me of doing! Motes and beams, ba77. Now, who said that again...?Elizabeth Liddle
July 3, 2011
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and markf, do you hold to Darwin's publicly stated 'deistic' position for the Origin of Life??? i.e. Just how much of even a hint of God will you allow into your personal atheistic worldview??? If not even a hint, Why Not?bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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markf, and you are a politician in real life???bornagain77
July 3, 2011
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#5 BA77 And markf so how is his ‘big if’ not an attempt to explain the origin of life in materialistic terms???,,, Because (1) He doesn't claim it is true (that is what "if" means) (2) It doesn't provide an explanation. There is zero detail. (3) That is not the point of the paragraph. The point is to address one objection to materialist explanations of the origin of life - namely - why does not life keep on restarting if it started once? (4) This was just an informal letter not a public statement to which he was committed. Otherwise fine :-)markf
July 3, 2011
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and once again; To dovetail into Dembski and Marks's work on Conservation of Information;,,, LIFE'S CONSERVATION LAW: Why Darwinian Evolution Cannot Create Biological Information William A. Dembski and Robert J. Marks II http://evoinfo.org/publications/lifes-conservation-law/ ,,,Encoded classical information, such as what we find in computer programs, and yes as we find encoded in DNA, is found to be a subset of 'transcendent' quantum information by the following method:,,, This following research provides solid falsification for Rolf Landauer’s contention that information encoded in a computer is merely physical (merely ‘emergent’ from a material basis) since he believed it always required energy to erase it; Quantum knowledge cools computers: New understanding of entropy – June 2011 Excerpt: No heat, even a cooling effect; In the case of perfect classical knowledge of a computer memory (zero entropy), deletion of the data requires in theory no energy at all. The researchers prove that “more than complete knowledge” from quantum entanglement with the memory (negative entropy) leads to deletion of the data being accompanied by removal of heat from the computer and its release as usable energy. This is the physical meaning of negative entropy. Renner emphasizes, however, “This doesn’t mean that we can develop a perpetual motion machine.” The data can only be deleted once, so there is no possibility to continue to generate energy. The process also destroys the entanglement, and it would take an input of energy to reset the system to its starting state. The equations are consistent with what’s known as the second law of thermodynamics: the idea that the entropy of the universe can never decrease. Vedral says “We’re working on the edge of the second law. If you go any further, you will break it.” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110601134300.htm ,,,And here is the empirical confirmation that quantum information is 'conserved';,,, Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.htmlbornagain77
July 3, 2011
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,,, not what you think or believe Elizabeth, but what can you prove???,,, Moreover, you have no foundation to presuppose the generation of transcendent information from the materialistic causes of neo-Darwinism!!! notes (for you to ignore Elizabeth): Falsification of neo-Darwinism; First, Here is the falsification of local realism (reductive materialism). Here is a clip of a talk in which Alain Aspect talks about the failure of ‘local realism’, or the failure of reductive materialism, to explain reality: The Failure Of Local Realism – Reductive Materialism – Alain Aspect – video http://www.metacafe.com/w/4744145 The falsification for local realism (reductive materialism) was recently greatly strengthened: Physicists close two loopholes while violating local realism – November 2010 Excerpt: The latest test in quantum mechanics provides even stronger support than before for the view that nature violates local realism and is thus in contradiction with a classical worldview. http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-physicists-loopholes-violating-local-realism.html Quantum Measurements: Common Sense Is Not Enough, Physicists Show – July 2009 Excerpt: scientists have now proven comprehensively in an experiment for the first time that the experimentally observed phenomena cannot be described by non-contextual models with hidden variables. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090722142824.htm (of note: hidden variables were postulated to remove the need for ‘spooky’ forces, as Einstein termed them — forces that act instantaneously at great distances, thereby breaking the most cherished rule of relativity theory, that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.) And yet, quantum entanglement, which rigorously falsified local realism (reductive materialism) as the complete description of reality, is now found in molecular biology on a massive scale! Quantum Information/Entanglement In DNA & Protein Folding – short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5936605/ Quantum entanglement holds together life’s blueprint – 2010 Excerpt: When the researchers analysed the DNA without its helical structure, they found that the electron clouds were not entangled. But when they incorporated DNA’s helical structure into the model, they saw that the electron clouds of each base pair became entangled with those of its neighbours (arxiv.org/abs/1006.4053v1). “If you didn’t have entanglement, then DNA would have a simple flat structure, and you would never get the twist that seems to be important to the functioning of DNA,” says team member Vlatko Vedral of the University of Oxford. http://neshealthblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/quantum-entanglement-holds-together-lifes-blueprint/ The relevance of continuous variable entanglement in DNA – July 2010 Excerpt: We consider a chain of harmonic oscillators with dipole-dipole interaction between nearest neighbours resulting in a van der Waals type bonding. The binding energies between entangled and classically correlated states are compared. We apply our model to DNA. By comparing our model with numerical simulations we conclude that entanglement may play a crucial role in explaining the stability of the DNA double helix. http://arxiv.org/abs/1006.4053v1 Quantum Information confirmed in DNA by direct empirical research; DNA Can Discern Between Two Quantum States, Research Shows – June 2011 Excerpt: — DNA — can discern between quantum states known as spin. – The researchers fabricated self-assembling, single layers of DNA attached to a gold substrate. They then exposed the DNA to mixed groups of electrons with both directions of spin. Indeed, the team’s results surpassed expectations: The biological molecules reacted strongly with the electrons carrying one of those spins, and hardly at all with the others. The longer the molecule, the more efficient it was at choosing electrons with the desired spin, while single strands and damaged bits of DNA did not exhibit this property. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331104014.htm Information and entropy – top-down or bottom-up development in living systems? A.C. McINTOSH Excerpt: This paper highlights the distinctive and non-material nature of information and its relationship with matter, energy and natural forces. It is proposed in conclusion that it is the non-material information (transcendent to the matter and energy) that is actually itself constraining the local thermodynamics to be in ordered disequilibrium and with specified raised free energy levels necessary for the molecular and cellular machinery to operate. http://journals.witpress.com/paperinfo.asp?pid=420 i.e. It is very interesting to note that quantum entanglement, which conclusively demonstrates that ‘information’ in its pure ‘quantum form’ is completely transcendent of any time and space constraints, should be found in molecular biology on such a massive scale, for how can the quantum entanglement ‘effect’ in biology possibly be explained by a material (matter/energy space/time) ’cause’ when the quantum entanglement ‘effect’ falsified material particles as its own ‘causation’ in the first place? (A. Aspect) Appealing to the probability of various configurations of material particles, as neo-Darwinism does, simply will not help since a timeless/spaceless cause must be supplied which is beyond the capacity of the energy/matter particles themselves to supply! To give a coherent explanation for an effect that is shown to be completely independent of any time and space constraints one is forced to appeal to a cause that is itself not limited to time and space! i.e. Put more simply, you cannot explain a effect by a cause that has been falsified by the very same effect you are seeking to explain! Improbability arguments of various ‘specified’ configurations of material particles, which have been a staple of the arguments against neo-Darwinism, simply do not apply since the cause is not within the material particles in the first place! ,,,To refute this falsification of neo-Darwinism, one must falsify Alain Aspect, and company’s, falsification of local realism (reductive materialism)! ,,, As well, appealing to ‘non-reductive’ materialism (multiverse or many-worlds) to try to explain quantum non-locality in molecular biology ends up destroying the very possibility of doing science rationally; BRUCE GORDON: Hawking’s irrational arguments – October 2010 Excerpt: For instance, we find multiverse cosmologists debating the “Boltzmann Brain” problem: In the most “reasonable” models for a multiverse, it is immeasurably more likely that our consciousness is associated with a brain that has spontaneously fluctuated into existence in the quantum vacuum than it is that we have parents and exist in an orderly universe with a 13.7 billion-year history. This is absurd. The multiverse hypothesis is therefore falsified because it renders false what we know to be true about ourselves. Clearly, embracing the multiverse idea entails a nihilistic irrationality that destroys the very possibility of science. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/1/hawking-irrational-arguments/ ,,,Michael Behe has a profound answer to the infinite multiverse (non-reductive materialism) argument in “Edge of Evolution”. If there are infinite universes, then we couldn’t trust our senses, because it would be just as likely that our universe might only consist of a human brain that pops into existence which has the neurons configured just right to only give the appearance of past memories. It would also be just as likely that we are floating brains in a lab, with some scientist feeding us fake experiences. Those scenarios would be just as likely as the one we appear to be in now (one universe with all of our experiences being “real”). Bottom line is, if there really are an infinite number of universes out there, then we can’t trust anything we perceive to be true, which means there is no point in seeking any truth whatsoever. “The multiverse idea rests on assumptions that would be laughed out of town if they came from a religious text.” Gregg Easterbrook ================= Alain Aspect and Anton Zeilinger by Richard Conn Henry – Physics Professor – John Hopkins University Excerpt: Why do people cling with such ferocity to belief in a mind-independent reality? It is surely because if there is no such reality, then ultimately (as far as we can know) mind alone exists. And if mind is not a product of real matter, but rather is the creator of the “illusion” of material reality (which has, in fact, despite the materialists, been known to be the case, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in 1925), then a theistic view of our existence becomes the only rational alternative to solipsism (solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one’s own mind is sure to exist). (Dr. Henry’s referenced experiment and paper – “An experimental test of non-local realism” by S. Gröblacher et. al., Nature 446, 871, April 2007 – “To be or not to be local” by Alain Aspect, Nature 446, 866, April 2007bornagain77
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