Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinism and popular culture: So we really ARE allowed to critique the little god Darwin now?

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Apparently, the sort of comments made in my article in Touchstone – about the little god Darwin – have been noticed by at least one person.

THE DARWIN MOVIE’S NOT SELLING, but John Scalzi doubts those evil Creationmongers are a part of the reason:

How about this: The movie is not selling because it is not believed … Huh? Maybe the story is not believable?

People now generally guess that Darwin was a materialist atheist long before his daughter died. And his whole coterie was committed to promoting the view that he lost his faith over her death , and it is still fronted today.

Fact: In North America, you cannot legally line up people at gun point and force them to watch some propaganda film worshipping Darwin – or worshipping anything – and threaten to shoot or otherwise punish them if they say they do not believe it. If that is not the law where you live, please hold a revolution now.

As a traditional Canadian, I am not a fan of revolution in general. Nature is our vast antagonist, not man. Check a map. But in some places maybe people need a revolution, to get the point across that there are some areas government must not infringe, including freedom of religion and freedom of media. (We have big problems with that just now, but we are getting the message across.)

While I am here, one of the most significant books published this year, because it – potentially – rids us of much Darwin nonsense, endlessly iterated in textbooks, teacher’s manuals and popular films, is Michael Flannery’s republishing, with a useful introduction, of Alfred Russel Wallace’s Theory Of Intelligent Evolution . We would be vastly better off if Wallace, rather than Darwin, had been the main theorist. For example, we would never have dealt with the awful eugenics movement and the completely ridiculous evolutionary psychology movement. Wallace was far wiser than his co-theorist, Darwin, about the stuff that really matters.

Comments
Mr BA^77, "I stand behind my claim." Which claim is that? That the first law is violated? That detectors are unnecessary? That beam splitters are unnecessary? I think you are safe with the claim that quantum teleportation has theistic implications. Claim away. Proclaim. Declaim.Nakashima
November 12, 2009
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You Know Nak, I have patiently pointed out your flaws of reasoning and yet you still try to find any place to hide so as to not face the reality of the theistic implications of the experiment. I stand behind my claim. As for you if you think dodging this one technical point of interpretation of quantum teleportation let's you off the hook, you are once again severely misguided, for "hidden variables" which are absolutely essential for a materialist to maintain any coherent scientific claim to explaining reality has been completely overthrown. Quantum Measurements: Common Sense Is Not Enough, Physicists Show - July 2009 Excerpt: scientists have now proven comprehensively in an experiment for the first time that the experimentally observed phenomena cannot be described by non-contextual models with hidden variables. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090722142824.htm As well you have no excuse for ignoring a transcendent origin of the universe: Inflationary spacetimes are not past-complete - Borde-Guth-Vilenkin - 2003 Excerpt: inflationary models require physics other than inflation to describe the past boundary of the inflating region of spacetime. http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0110012 "It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can long longer hide behind the possibility of a past eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning." Alexander Vilenkin - Many Worlds In One - Pg. 176 As well methodological naturalism is itself shaken to its core since information "runs the show" for reality. Why the Quantum? It from Bit? A Participatory Universe? Excerpt: In conclusion, it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Thence the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: "In the beginning was the Word." Anton Zeilinger - a leading expert in quantum teleportation: http://www.metanexus.net/magazine/tabid/68/id/5896/Default.aspxbornagain77
November 12, 2009
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Mr BA^77, Thank you for highlighting the relevant portions. You would do well to compare across all three documents we have been discussing. You will see that the beam splitter occupies the spot labelled 'scan' on the IBM Research web page, a page you brought forward as authoritative. It is a complete about face for you to now, after many previous claims to the contrary, try to save face by claiming teleportation takes place at the detector. But according to you, if the photon is teleported, it is not there to be detected, but if it is detected, it has not been teleported. Bottom line: after shouting "Rabbit Season" interminably, you are now shouting "Duck Season". Well, if you say so...Nakashima
November 12, 2009
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Seversky you ain't even in the right ballpark to play the game!!!: and No Nak you are completely and totally wrong when you state the following:
"In the first Braunstein paper, the teleportation occurs at the beam splitter labeled ‘bs’, the detection at det1, det2."
For the experiment is actually exactly as such: Excerpt Braunstein: Our protocol is as follows: EPR beam 1 (Fig. 1) propagates to Alice’s sending station, where it is combined at a 50/50 beam splitter with the unknown input state xxxx, which is a coherent state of complex amplitude vin [ xin1 ipin. Alice uses two sets of balanced homodyne detectors (Dx, Dp) to make a “Bell-state” measurement. Thus Nak since you so willfully distort where teleportation actually took place (you said beam splitter), why should I not think you are completely disingenuous to what the results clearly indicating no matter what I point out to you? As far as I can tell you only want to see what you want to see in the experiment and are not looking for what the experiment is actually telling us of reality. i.e. You "don't want" the experiment to be true!bornagain77
November 12, 2009
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Mr BA^77, Not close, and no cigar. The quantum teleportation does not take place upon detection, as you can tell from examining the figures in any of the web pages or scientific papers we have been discussing. On the IBM web page, the teleportation occurs at 'scan', the detection occurs at 'disrupted original'. In the first Braunstein paper, the teleportation occurs at the beam splitter labeled 'bs', the detection at det1, det2. In the second Braunstein paper, the beam splitter is the heavy vertical line in the schematic where the two photon beams cross, the detectors are labeled Dx, Dp, etc. I have to admit that I am afraid your reading of these papers is shading over from casual misinterpretaton to wilful misinterpretation.Nakashima
November 12, 2009
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bornagain77 @ 141
Seversky, Let’s try to make this real simple; Photon a disappears with no measurement of energy dispersal, it is quantum mechanically annihilated into a “vacuum state”.
That's right. It gets annihilated when it hits the photon detector. Just like the photons that are smacking into the back of your eyes right now. Or the photons focused by the magnifying-glass which can burn holes in things. Ever think that wouldn't happen if photons disappeared into nothingness rather than their energy being transferred to whatever they hit?
The entire information content of photon c is transcendently displaced from the material universe when it instantaneously becomes Photon a, since there is no “material quantum state” for photon c to reside in.
What evidence and measurements do you have to support such a claim? Just sprinkling the word "transcendently" around the text adds nothing to our understanding if you do not describe what is being transcended and how.
To make it even more clear, You have absolutely no measurement to back up your assertion that photon a was “destroyed by energy dispersal”, thereby maintaining the first law to the materialistic point of view,
That is probably because: a) I did not say that photon a "was destroyed by energy dispersal" b) I was not conducting the experiment so I have no measurements one way or the other c) The people who were conducting the experiment were trying to demonstrate the phenomenon of teleportation not testing for violations of the First Law.
whereas I have direct empirical evidence that photon c was “transcendently displaced” from the “material” realm by photon a, thereby violating the first law.
No, you do not. You have an experiment demonstrating how the quantum states of one photon can be transferred to another by a process misleadingly called "teleportation". It was testing a prediction of the extremely well-established quantum theory not some wild speculation about 'transcendental displacement'. The experimenters did not test for violations of the First Law because they had no reason to suspect one might occur. If they had discovered such a violation it would have been a discovery of far greater magnitude than what was actually shown, eminently worthy, as others have pointed out, of the Nobel Prize.
You can jump up and down all day long saying the first law was not violated but until you provide a measurement of some type to explain what the evidence currently indicates you are merely trumpeting your personal beliefs of what reality should be (materialistic) over what reality is actually telling us in the experiment (theistic).
I am not the one being exercised by a delusion that I have found evidence for my 'borne-again' theistic beliefs which I feel compelled to trumpet all over the blogs. The fact is that neither of us are quantum mechanics - we are not even the oily rags - so if you really believe you have spotted a phenomenon of such ground-breaking proportions that was missed by professional physicists, then you should at least contact the researchers to ask them to re-examine their work and see if it supports your claim. If you really believe what you are saying, that is.Seversky
November 11, 2009
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"While this work (quantum teleportation) has serious interpretational and philosophical implications, it also may provide the basis for future technological applications like interaction-free measurements, quantum computation, and quantum cryptography." Wolfgang Ernst, professor of physics http://www.science.psu.edu/alert/Chemerda3-2002.htm What serious philosophical issue is he talking about Nak? Since materialism is the only philosophy that could possibly be threatened by such findings,(I surely can think of no other) it must be materialism he is talking about? Don't you agree? Or are you going to dodge this question as well? Nak the reason I know for a fact the first law was broken ,as far as your materialistic framework is concerned, is because I understand that all the photons of the universe, originally created in the Big Bang, were created by a completely transcendent entity, since no time nor space existed before the big bang. Thus whatever created energy must of necessity possess transcendence as its primary quality! Since the "information" displayed in entanglement and teleportation (and "information" is EXACTLY the word call it) is the ONLY entity to display complete transcendence of time and space in this universe, thus it (information) is the ONLY entity that is even candidate to create the energy/photons of the Big Bang! From that understanding of basic physics, it is simple to realize that since they are in fact subtracting the ENTIRE "infinite" information content of a photon and giving the entire information content to another photon, with the entire information content of a photon being displaced in the process, Then it is simple to see a photon cannot exist without any information and the first law is violated. i.e. the photon is destroyed when its information is removed!bornagain77
November 11, 2009
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Nice try but No deception Nak!!! try again: the measurement(scanning)is what teleports/annihilates the photon. You must provide a measurement after teleportation !!! i.e. where is the photon (energy dispersal) within the local system??? Remember, when a photon hits a retina in the human eye there is a precise sequence of energy interactions that gives you clear evidence the energy is still there in a continuous chain within the local system. Why was the energy of the photon no longer there to be measured after quantum teleportation? Read this again Nak: Excerpt: In brief, they found a way to scan out part of the information from an object A, which one wishes to teleport, while causing the remaining, unscanned, part of the information to pass, via the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen effect, into another object C which has never been in contact with A. ,,,, A itself is no longer in that state, having been thoroughly disrupted (annihilated, destroyed) by the scanning, so what has been achieved is teleportation, not replication. http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/bornagain77
November 11, 2009
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Mr BA^77, You persist in confusing our knowledge of a quantum state and physical existence. The diagram I referred you to was in an article you appealed to. Had these scientists not needed the detectors shown, they would have had a result (the result you believe) that would have earned them Nobel prizes. However, they did need those detectors, as did the previous experiment whose annihilation to the vacuum state you trumpeted but have conveniently forgotten now that the issue of reading comprehension has been raised. The direct empirical evidence you request is contained in Fig. 2 A on p 708. This a measurement of the photons at Dx after the act of quantum teleportation has taken place. In fact, the experimental protocol requires these measurements. Given Alice’s measurement of (x(V), p(V)), the next step in the protocol is for her to send the (classical) photocurrents (ix(V), ip(V)) to Bob, who uses this information to generate a displacement (a coherent modulation at V) of the field in beam 2 by way of the modulators (Mx, Mp) and the mirror mBob. I hope this direct emprirical evidence which you requested will help you revise your notion of quantum teleportation violating the first law.Nakashima
November 11, 2009
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Nak, you must provide direct empirical evidence as I have done to refute what "perfect" teleportation of "every" state (not some states) of the photon,,, wishing to see a photon in a drawing does not equal refuting the FACT that they unequivocally say teleportation of the photon was perfect! To put it more bluntly, There ain't NO PHOTON LEFT AT ALL to give you a measurement for energy dispersal thus maintaining the first law to a materialistic framework.... You got nothing to measure NAK!!!!bornagain77
November 11, 2009
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Mr BA^77, For your reference, here is a link to the full text of Unconditional Quantum Teleportation. Please note the use of detectors in the schematic Fig 1. None of the lines that represents photon paths just stops at the point quantum teleportation takes place, as you claim they should. I think your quote of Planck is unduly pessimisstic, otherwise I would not continue this conversation as I have for so long.Nakashima
November 11, 2009
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By the way Nak, Planck was a Christian!bornagain77
November 11, 2009
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Your materialistic presupposition is going to eat your lunch, or you will die trying to unsuccessfully substantiate it, Nak! A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. Max Planckbornagain77
November 11, 2009
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Nak, save for one thing; you have zero evidence of energy dispersal of the photon within the local environment of the teleported photon: whereas I have direct evidence that the teleportation of "every" state of the photon was "perfect" Unconditional Quantum Teleportation Excerpt: This is the first realization of unconditional quantum teleportation where every state entering the device is actually teleported. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/282/5389/706bornagain77
November 11, 2009
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Mr BA^77, It always helps to read to the end of the sentence. The sentence you quote ends with (this annihilation to vacuum by photodetectors will be made rigorous when we discuss Glauber photodetector theory). To review, no one disputed the ability of photodetectors (any atom that absorbs a photon) to annihilate that photon. What you had claimed is that there is no photon to be detected, that the act of quantum teleportation had annihilated the photon prior to any detector becoming involved. This paper shows that this interpretation of quantum teleportation (that it leads to violations of the first law) is wrong.Nakashima
November 11, 2009
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Seversky, Let's try to make this real simple; Photon a disappears with no measurement of energy dispersal, it is quantum mechanically annihilated into a "vacuum state". Yet at the same time photon a instantaneously appears at photon c's position with photon c instantaneously becoming photon a. The entire information content of photon c is transcendently displaced from the material universe when it instantaneously becomes Photon a, since there is no "material quantum state" for photon c to reside in. To make it even more clear, You have absolutely no measurement to back up your assertion that photon a was "destroyed by energy dispersal", thereby maintaining the first law to the materialistic point of view, whereas I have direct empirical evidence that photon c was "transcendently displaced" from the "material" realm by photon a, thereby violating the first law. This is direct experimental evidence Seversky!!! You can jump up and down all day long saying the first law was not violated but until you provide a measurement of some type to explain what the evidence currently indicates you are merely trumpeting your personal beliefs of what reality should be (materialistic) over what reality is actually telling us in the experiment (theistic).bornagain77
November 10, 2009
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bornagain77 @ 128
Seversky, you have got to be kidding!! The photon ain’t there, i.e. the photon is Thoroughly Disrupted, The original Photon Is Destroyed, i.e. The Photon NO LONGER EXISTS!!! How in the world you can maintain that the photon is still there is beyond me,,
That's because I don't. Try reading what I wrote rather than what you wanted me to write. As with the photon hitting the retina, the photon no longer exists as a photon but the energy does. It has simply been transferred elsewhere. The form has been destroyed but the substance remains. Have you ever started a fire or burnt a hole in something using a magnifying-glass and sunlight? What do you think is happening? The lens is focusing a stream of photons on one small area. As each one smacks into the target it is destroyed but the energy is transferred to what it hits which then heats up. Do you think that is a violation of the First Law? Your modern digital camera forms an image from light focused on a light-sensitive chip. Those photons are absorbed and destroyed in the process. Do you think that every time you take a picture you are violating the First Law?
Seversky
November 10, 2009
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bornagain77, thank you for your answer. I have several points of response to 138, but I think that they would be a huge tangent, and I've polluted your thread enough.R0b
November 10, 2009
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Rob, my inference to the overriding principle of Conservation Of Information, i.e. that Pure Transcendent Information cannot be created or destroyed, i.e. all Pure Transcendent Information that can exist for all events of energy, past present, and future, already does exist, comes directly from the empirical evidence of what quantum mechanics is telling us of reality. For you to refute the principle, in the primary form Nak and I are currently dealing with it on in this thread, you will have to demonstrate, as Nak is trying to do, that energy is not being dominated by pure transcendent information in these quantum experiments. Thus nullifying the line of reasoning I am currently using and preserving the overall integrity of materialism as a legitimate scientific philosophy. The form of Law of Conservation, that I think you seem to be interested in, is the secondary form, and I believe you want to maintain the materialistic claim that natural/material evolutionary processes can generate information all by themselves with no teleological input. i.e. you want to falsify Genetic Entropy, Yet this level, of Conservation Of Information, you seem to be interested in is at present irrelevant to the level that I am currently addressing the subject from on this thread, since my address focuses on the primary level of reality before the "second order" information is encoded on top of "material" reality by God. As far as you rigorously falsifying Genetic Entropy, and rigorously proving "material reality" can seemingly generate information in a empirical manner, without recourse to teleology, in a scientifically comprehensible manner that all can clearly see. I refer you to Abel's Null Hypothesis. If you can rigorously falsify that Hypothesis, within peer-review, I would at least concede that the position of Theistic Evolution is logically coherent. The Capabilities of Chaos and Complexity: David L. Abel - Null Hypothesis For Information Generation - 2009 To focus the scientific community’s attention on its own tendencies toward overzealous metaphysical imagination bordering on “wish-fulfillment,” we propose the following readily falsifiable null hypothesis, and invite rigorous experimental attempts to falsify it: "Physicodynamics cannot spontaneously traverse The Cybernetic Cut: physicodynamics alone cannot organize itself into formally functional systems requiring algorithmic optimization, computational halting, and circuit integration." A single exception of non trivial, unaided spontaneous optimization of formal function by truly natural process would falsify this null hypothesis. http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/10/1/247/pdf http://mdpi.com/1422-0067/10/1/247/ag Rob, Though I am surely no expert in math, To falsify the Law of Conservation Of Information as Dembski and Marks currently are addressing it in their last paper: "LIFE’S CONSERVATION LAW: Why Darwinian Evolution Cannot Create Biological Information": Excerpt: Though not denying Darwinian evolution or even limiting its role in the history of life, the Law of Conservation of Information shows that Darwinian evolution is inherently teleological. Moreover, it shows that this teleology can be measured in precise information-theoretic terms. http://www.evoinfo.org/Publications/ConsInfo_NoN.pdf It seems, that You just have to show that "it may be remotely mathematically possible" for what are "assumed to be totally material processes" to generate novel information. Thus the law as it is being debated from that perspective is irrelevant to the empirics that I would focus on if I were to address the matter head on.bornagain77
November 10, 2009
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bornagain77, since the reasons you give for distrusting me are factually false, there's not much I can do to remedy the situation. I find it incongruous that a barrage of completely unevidenced criticism would come from someone who appropriately stresses the importance of evidence. So let me ask you: If someone referred to a alleged Law, but they refused to tell you what the Law means on the grounds that they "don't trust you", would you believe them?R0b
November 9, 2009
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Rob, I may be wrong, and am thoroughly sorry if I am, but I still do not trust you, and will have to keep a closer eye on how you argue your positions before I can trust you. Frankly I have been burnt to many times by atheists to offer too much trust to any I suspect of being disingenuous to the evidence.bornagain77
November 9, 2009
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Thanks Nak, good work! OK from your referenced paper: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/schmuel/papers/bmB95.pdf We find they state below your detector reference on page 2: "is effectively annihilating these photons to the vacuum state: Looking up vacuum state I find this article which states: Physics of optoelectronics http://books.google.com/books?id=n7tKU1eU8SMC&pg=PA354&lpg=PA354&dq=photons+in+vacuum+state&source=bl&ots=CT5loGaZs9&sig=fC8Qvb3igqQv-J-Js8Jn750f438&hl=en&ei=s6j4StfcPIzIMda9legF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=photons%20in%20vacuum%20state&f=false "In QED, a state without any photons (the vacuum state) has an average electric field of zero, but non-zero variance (which is proportional to the square of the field)." Thus Nak from your reference, It seems my claim for a violation of the first law still stands firm. To put it all together. photon A was totally disrupted to a vacuum state without any photons. i.e. the caveat being that it is extremely difficult (impossible?) to precisely measure the fluctuation of the electric field of the universe's vacuum state of one single photon, Yet for the purposes of maintaining my claim, the entire "infinite transcendent information" of a single photon "c" was displaced when photon c turned into photon a, and since the information displaced is completely transcendent of any material basis, the total loss of photons to the universe, considering vacuum state of electric field and all, is still one, thus the first law stands as violated!bornagain77
November 9, 2009
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bornagain77:
ROb, several times I’ve watched you ignore direct empirical evidence by alluding to obscure mathematics that have no foundation in reality.
Then it should be very easy for you to point to an example of me doing this.
Yet you insist that your “scholarly privileged” view of the math you cite somehow precludes the empirics cited of reality from being true.
I've never insisted anything even remotely like this. I have no idea where you're getting your bizarre ideas from.
Thus by your own self-deceived delusions of genius in mathematics, which you have convinced yourself of, you have ignored reality and have thus made the basic premise of the scientific method of no effect for you. Perhaps I am wrong, and I hope I am, yet I have not seen anything of promise from you to suggest that this is not so.
You are, in fact, 100% wrong.
So tell me exactly why should I discuss anything with you when you do not even respect the basic tenets of the scientific method in the first place?
Your premise is completely false. Regardless, you continue to discuss a variety of topics with me, several hundred words' worth, while still avoiding the simple question. As to your religious message, I hope you realize that rejecting your arguments is not the same as rejecting Christianity.R0b
November 9, 2009
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Mr BA^77, I performed my scan of the literature by starting with the Duwell paper you referenced earlier, and noting that a Bell operator measurement has to be done. I then Googled "Bell operator measurement" and found this paper. Please examine Figure 1 on the top of page R1729. There you will see the detectors 'det1' and 'det2', which measure the state of the 'totally disrupted' photons.Nakashima
November 9, 2009
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ROb, several times I've watched you ignore direct empirical evidence by alluding to obscure mathematics that have no foundation in reality. Yet you insist that your "scholarly privileged" view of the math you cite somehow precludes the empirics cited of reality from being true. Thus by your own self-deceived delusions of genius in mathematics, which you have convinced yourself of, you have ignored reality and have thus made the basic premise of the scientific method of no effect for you. Perhaps I am wrong, and I hope I am, yet I have not seen anything of promise from you to suggest that this is not so. So tell me exactly why should I discuss anything with you when you do not even respect the basic tenets of the scientific method in the first place? Are you going to recompense me somehow for having to go into hours of detail, when you will not even listen in the end anyway? Will I learn some new deep insight into reality by chasing you through your mathematical fantasy land? Of course not! All that I would get out of it is frustration. And this is another mystery I do not understand from evolutionists, especially now with stunning discovery after stunning discover into reality (1 in 10^60 for mass density for one example equals approx. 1 grain of sand). It is I am amazed that atheists/evolutionists would still willingly chose to believe they are a accident of a mud puddle billions of years ago, with absolutely no compelling evidence to support them, and with absolutely no purpose in the great scheme of things, instead of seeking out the wondrous possibility that we are indeed children of the Most High who created this universe. This is a thoroughly fascinating Question. And I investigate the matter as such intensely asking of the evidence, "Can this be true?" and every avenue I scour for proof that this might be, turns out to yield gems of truth telling me that YES INDEED!!! this wondrous possibility you are seeking answer to is indeed true to its core. My attitude is that I have been given the greatest treasure I could hope to ever possess, and that treasure is the promise of God Himself, sealed through Jesus Christ, that I am His child. THIRD DAY - YOU ARE MINE - LIVE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plwpdgae6UIbornagain77
November 9, 2009
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bornagain77, more chaff. I'm asking you what you mean by "the Law of Conservation of Information", and you're persistently dodging the question. And by your reasoning, I'm the one who has "no heart for finding the truth". If you won't tell me what you're talking about, perhaps someone else here can tell me. Anyone?R0b
November 9, 2009
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Rob, you have shown me that you have no heart for finding the truth, so to what avail would it be for me to discuss anything with you since you have set yourself to decieve?bornagain77
November 9, 2009
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bornagain77, I'm still naively hoping that you'll tell us what you're referring to when you say "the Law of Conservation of Information". Apparently that's asking too much. Why not answer the question instead of releasing chaff in the form of bogus criticisms? Are you of the opinion that it's not ID's task to provide that level of detail, and it's okay to keep your readers guessing?R0b
November 9, 2009
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Seversky, you have got to be kidding!! The photon ain't there, i.e. the photon is Thoroughly Disrupted, The original Photon Is Destroyed, i.e. The Photon NO LONGER EXISTS!!! How in the world you can maintain that the photon is still there is beyond me,, You have never showed me a measurement of the photon after it was throughly Disrupted, at least Show me exactly where the energy went within the system!!! As far as I can tell photon C is photon A,, the better question you should be asking, that actually might bear some fruit, is where in the heck did the information in Photon C go after it was turned into photon A. But no this question doesn't intrigue you in the least it seems, In stead You want to maintain, against all reason that has been presented so far, that a photon, that for all intents and purposes instantaneously disappeared in the experiment, is still there... You are simply unbelievable Seversky,,, tell you what seversky, as I have told you before, you find the photon, or its energy equivalent within the system, and I will retract my claim to a controlled violation of the first law,,, You know what is funny Sev, it is only your false materialistic view of reality that is making this simple experiment so hard for you to understand.bornagain77
November 8, 2009
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bornagain77 @ 126
Nak and Seversky,,, If you guys get tired of looking for that photon that ain’t there, Here is another little nugget, savaging the foundation of materialism, for you guys to deny the relevance of:
Before we deal with that, there is another point that needs to be cleared up. At #50, you wrote:
Nak, It is very simple, The first law is violated in quantum teleportation, thus establishing the dominion of “transcendent information (Logos) over the material realm,,,That is clear cut science in its most pristine form,,,For you to have any credence you must prove the first law was not violated,,,it is as simple as that!
Given our previous discussions, do you now concede that the destruction of a photon during the 'scanning' process in a quantum teleportation experiment does not constitute a violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics?Seversky
November 8, 2009
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